The McMullen Coal Company Light Railway

[Owd Bob]

 Apollo! Bankrupt in every way if you get my drift!   Anyway i'll leave it to the Russians and Chinese to sort us all out and wipe the slate clean!   

       Heres some fresh pics' I just managed to take half a dozen before the camera battery ran out.    I've re-weathered the loco' back to the same filthy state it was in before using Humbrol Chocolate Brown and Matt Black in a 50/50 mix which was then thinned down with plenty of White Spirit (All guess work as to the amount) which was then washed all over and left to run down & drip dry overnight, still some more weathering work to do in a few places to finish it off but it's not a big job now and 'Bess' is finally fixed up and back to working and running again...although the leaves are now starting to drop off the tree's in one corner of the line and she ran aground a few times! 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Owd Bob

[alastairq]

Most of us who were [are?] involved in any form of training delivery, education, mentoring, instructional delivery, whatever......have seen quantum changes in the way such training/education, whatever, has now to be delivered.

 

Whilst some I knew/know, struggle to adapt to the new environment [compared to what they were used to for decades.... good enough for me, must be good enough for them?], failed to realise the actual end-goals of what we were paid to achieve.

 

Much of what is best practice now has it's points.   The way education is delivered is vastly different to what I received back in the '50's & 60's....I don't know about you lot, but when my kids were at school...and came to me for help, I was just as lost as they were, probably more so.  Terminology, methodology, all different. Even simple maths such as 'long division', I can handle with me eyes shut.....but trying to help my youngsters when they were confronted with similar, and neither of us understood the other. That was when they were in junior  school...never mind senior school. 

 

Crikey, even basic, good, grammar or, spelling, isn't considered 'important' these days....do they call it, ''inclusiveness?''

 

Are the kids now leaving school, any better equipped than we were? Do they need to be better equipped?

 

As for degrees?

 

Well, when all is said & done, a degree is really only a course.  A course can be delivered under pretty much any environment [give or take course criteria].....which is why we have the Open University?

 

A degree-level course doesn't have to be delivered in an ancient..and perhaps, somewhat irrelevant, set of buildings.  It is the Course design which matters.....and the standard, and amount, of validation. Not from which establishment it is delivered.

 

A local adult education college could have personnel within its establishment who may be far superior, in skills terms, to certain individuals in a mainstream University?

 

What matters must be, does the College course have the required accreditation from it's 'parent' [or otherwise] university?

 

If that is so, then there should be little or no difference between a degree course at Cambridge University, and an accredited degree course at East Riding college.

 

Aside from kudos?  Which is boswellox in my eyes. [like driving an Audi instead of a Daewoo.....at the end of the day, both will get one from A to B safely.]

 

The real problem has been industry recognition of the differing degree courses. [That would be, any industry....even flipping burgers in Maccydees,].......I don't mean just 'widely' within a given industry...but by individual employers.

 

Therein can also lie a minefield....employers who actually only 'think' they know what is required.  Because they've always thought that?

 

In the military that issue has been a really sore point.....experienced personnel delivering training, based upon their own experience & understanding of the issues........ delivering what they think the trainee should know......not what the Army wants the trainee to know. The Army being the customer....who responds to an identified need.

 

Known as dinosaurs?

[alastairq]

'Bankrupt' is entirely the wrong description to use.

 

In it's correct meaning, pretty much 75% [or, rather more, I fear] of the entire property-owning {?} folk in this country could technically be  insolvent....Insolvency is legally fixed by Bankruptcy.[like Marriage, pain, & Divorce?]

 

In other words, if the Mortgage provider suddenly decided to foreclose on the mortgage, could the mortgagee pay back all that is owed, there & then? {The definition of Insolvency  The inability to do such things?]

We are all pretty much a 50/50 paint wash away from financial disaster.

 

But we don't like to think about things in that way, do we?

[Mike Storey]

I thoroughly sympathise with the views most of you have expressed, about engineering "education", but I cannot possibly empathise, as I am not a qualified engineer.

 

However, I have some experience in higher education, as an external examiner for a CFE and a bona fide University (De Montforte, Leicester), as well as having been a mature student to obtain a Masters in Transport (Salford).

 

I would offer that a HND (which is what almost all apprentices try to achieve, and which involves far more practical application than an academic degree) has been recognised as equivalent to a degree, since at least the 1990's. We certainly recognised it in BR, and later in Railtrack and Network Rail. The problem was not the existence of a more practical "degree" or the lack of apprenticeships, but the lack of youngsters with the staying power to complete them. In my CFE (South Bedfordshire), now one of yer despised "Universities" (the change to university was progressed because it meant greater ability to obtain funding, not cudos), the engineering faculty had a drop-out rate over 50%, compared to the business faculty or the nursing faculty, which had drop-out rates of less than 25%.

 

I believe, from contacts, that drop-out rates now are far lower (attributed to the requirement now to borrow against fees), and also given the increase in engineering apprenticeships from private industry, the increase in qualified engineers has improved dramatically, but is still less than needed by UK industry. The poncy side of engineering, via CAD and CAD/CAM qualified engineers, also has a shortage. We may not like the basis on which engineering is taught, or recognised, these days, but industry is screaming for people to enter into it. I live in France now, where qualifications are everything, far more than the UK, and much the same appears to be true here, too.

[Edwardian]

 a bona fide University (De Montforte, Leicester),

 

Really?

 

It was Leicester Poly when I was growing up!

[Edwardian]

Can I offer a view from the other side?

 

My strengths are not on the practical side of things - one only has to see my attempts at building baseboards and track to see this! - and academically I struggled with maths and physics.  Where I was reckoned to have some potential was in the Arts.  Now, we can have a discussion about the extent to which this was down to natural aptitude/inaptitude versus the lack of stress on wood and metal-working and how badly maths and physics were taught at my school.

 

Nevertheless, I was fit only for an 'essay' subject by the time it came to University.  And I have been arguing the toss ever since!

 

What I want to stress is how biased everything seems to be towards pure academic subjects and, particularly, to what used to be termed the 'Liberal Arts'.  There was just no encouragement to do anything vocational, technical or scientific; anything, in fact, that might be useful to industry or the economy!

 

Having been, in a large part, a product of that attitude, I simply want to come on record to deplore it, and to say that, for me, a polytechnic becoming a university seems to me to be merely a symptom of this attitude of academic snobbery. It evidences the failure of government (traditionally run by people with Liberal Arts degrees) and of society in not valuing the traditional polytechnic curriculum, which we probably needed more people to have followed.    

 

EDIT: Spelling

Edited September 15, 2018 by Edwardian

[Fillipe]

Gawd Almighty.

A whole page of posts, and only one of them about the McMCCLR. Can we get back to the superb modelling?

[Mike Storey]

 

 

And Mike if I may be so bold when I did a project with Biomatec down in Lyon 1992 time they always used to say of the French way of education, the really bright people were creamed off early to go to technically based, scientific and engineering schools and higher education, the less bright were sent to the clergy and the cocky devils were sent to law schools. I have no idea whether that still applies.

 

regards

Ian

 

Not quite my experience Ian. My professional relationship was only with the Parisian Insitute for Telecomms and Telegraph (!) in the 1990's for several years. But whilst it is true that French students are expected to specialise at a much earlier age than those in the UK, the "brightest" (i.e those from the rigidly recognised Elysees) almost all went into the Civil Service at that time. The technical colleges are still plentiful, but each specialise in different aspects, and substantial travel, or weekly boarding is the norm, the costs being pretty high, unless you qualify for state assistance. The problems currently (according to the newspapers, and anecdotally from my neighbours's sons (both of whom entered engineering faculties) and those of friends who went into a more academic faculty, further away, but still based on chemical engineering), are that of a lack of applicants and of an increasing drop out rate.

 

Just to be clear about conversions to universities in the UK, this was not about a determination to be more academic, but due to the reduction in funding for the CFE sector, and the attraction of funds by successive governments, to increase the number of degree courses, towards a target of around 50% attendance of all youngsters. But vocational training did not cease at Luton (where I went through the changeover as an external with them), where engineering and nursing continued to be major faculties. As someone has already said though, the entry requirements were due to rise. I think we all agree this policy was misplaced, but it was not the fault of the CFE sector. There is much talk of reversion to more practical higher education, but little has yet been done about it.

 

Anyroad, back to modelling.

[Owd Bob]

Well done Chaps!  Nice to see us Gentlemen having a really nice polite, interesting and informative debate instead of the ranting and raving and 'chucking our toys out' that i've seen elsewhere.   What we need is a 'Very Informative' icon for those of us less educated like wot i ham, and a 'Tongue in cheek' icon would be very useful at times for my old mate Fillipe.   Just got the tender i made for the Black saddle tank out of the damp leaking old shed and found that the damp has swelled up the MDF wooden made chassis and side frames, so the wheels are now rubbing on the front beam and falling off  It's now come inside into the house for a total strip down & re-build. I have some fresh wheels and I.P.E. axle boxes i could use going spare somewhere around here!  

Some pics' before i strip it down, the loco' has a bit more weathering as well now.

 

[Mike Storey]

As well as all the body detail, which is exquisite on its own, what makes your modelling stand out so much is the sort of detail I have never, ever seen before - the kindling in the fireman's bucket. Just shows how much you think this through, and know what you are at, even with one O level......

[Donw]

Interesting the kindling I have not seen any in the few locos I have driven mind you only one was narrow gauge (Dolgoch)  is it perhaps an industrial line practice? Or perhaps it was because there was an unqualified driver needing supervision so extra space on the footplate was needed. 

 

Lovely modelling 

 

I doubt the world was listening while we tried to put in to right. More's the pity.

 

Don

[44690]

Interesting the kindling I have not seen any in the few locos I have driven mind you only one was narrow gauge (Dolgoch)  is it perhaps an industrial line practice? Or perhaps it was because there was an unqualified driver needing supervision so extra space on the footplate was needed. 

 

Lovely modelling 

 

I doubt the world was listening while we tried to put in to right. More's the pity.

 

Don

 

The kindling would be for lighting up. purposes.

 

Ian

[Donw]

The kindling would be for lighting up. purposes.

 

Ian

 

I am aware of that I can remember chopping up kindling as a kid. It was carrying it on the loco that I hadn't seen. Where there is a proper shed the kindling would usually be held there especially where they have staff come in to light up early to raise steam ready for the first train of the day. It has occurred to me that if the kindling wood is a bit damp carrying it in the cab could dry it out ready for use in the morning.

 

Don

[Owd Bob]

My excuse Don is i've no shed to light it up in  Everything gets carried in a bucket around here...even me! And it's also 'cos my one 'O' level is only really a high grade C.S.E. in disguise    I stripped the old MDF made chassis off the plastic card made tender last eve' the wood was damp and falling to pieces and coming apart in layers, the lesson to me is don't leave any wooden made railway items outside or even in a seemingly dry shed for years on end.  I made another chassis out of 2mm thick plastic card and put the new axle boxes on with some new super duper glue i'm trying out, it's the stuff with Mighty Joe Young on the label! I'll clean and prime it up today. Also brought in the 'Harefield' Tub which has sat outside for at least two years and the thin walled 3D printed sides and ends had split and busted outwards, a quick clean up and some more super glue was stuck in all the cracks and later painted over with a rusty wash, i think this will have to stay indoors for now...it was the very first ever Harefield tub made and since then the tubs are now made with much stronger & thicker printed sides and ends.  Must admit that the damage looks like natural wear it could have got in heavy use.

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

My excuse Don is i've no shed to light it up in  Everything gets carried in a bucket around here...even me! And it's also 'cos my one 'O' level is only really a high grade C.S.E. in disguise    I stripped the old MDF made chassis off the plastic card made tender last eve' the wood was damp and falling to pieces and coming apart in layers, the lesson to me is don't leave any wooden made railway items outside or even in a seemingly dry shed for years on end.  I made another chassis out of 2mm thick plastic card and put the new axle boxes on with some new super duper glue i'm trying out, it's the stuff with Mighty Joe Young on the label! I'll clean and prime it up today. Also brought in the 'Harefield' Tub which has sat outside for at least two years and the thin walled 3D printed sides and ends had split and busted outwards, a quick clean up and some more super glue was stuck in all the cracks and later painted over with a rusty wash, i think this will have to stay indoors for now...it was the very first ever Harefield tub made and since then the tubs are now made with much stronger & thicker printed sides and ends.  Must admit that the damage looks like natural wear it could have got in heavy use.

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That tub in the event has been improved by decay!

[44690]

I am aware of that I can remember chopping up kindling as a kid. It was carrying it on the loco that I hadn't seen. Where there is a proper shed the kindling would usually be held there especially where they have staff come in to light up early to raise steam ready for the first train of the day. It has occurred to me that if the kindling wood is a bit damp carrying it in the cab could dry it out ready for use in the morning.

 

Don

 

Rule 1 applies. It's Bob's railway.    In practice you are correct Don. On the ELR there is normally a hammer, adjustable wrench and hand brush in a bucket which is always carried on the footplate. The wood is stored in a shed (And it's in considerably bigger lumps than what I would describe as kindling. Lol). 

[Talltim]

 

Crikey, even basic, good, grammar or, spelling, isn't considered 'important' these days....do they call it, ''inclusiveness?''

 

Err... Have you seen the formal grammar education that infant school children recieve nowadays? https://www.bbc.com/bitesize/topics/zkxxsbk

 

P.S. I'm not convinced about your use of commas in the quote.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Talltim

[Owd Bob]

Have you not started that bit of a job yet Ian? You know that 'Lets make a garden railway' thingy type job!  Still waiting for you to start on yours then you can come here and take and re-use all my blocks and rubble when i semi-demolish mine.   Seriously Ian i have two sheds full of detailing and line side clutter you can freely have, some more buildings are due for a re-build and repainting, so i'll be thinning that lot out as well.   

 

[alastairq]

Err... Have you seen the formal grammar education that infant school children recieve nowadays? https://www.bbc.com/bitesize/topics/zkxxsbk

 

P.S. I'm not convinced about your use of commas in the quote.

 I thought they were thunderbugs trapped behind my monitor...

 

I have avoided anything to do with schools for some years now.

 

I can only comment on what I see & hear, however......Especially from those who were at school 20 years ago, or so.

[Talltim]

Well yes, 20 (and 30) years ago formal grammar was distinctly out of fashion. A decision presumably made by those who are in their 60s-80s now...

[APOLLO]

"Bless o' on us Lord wi' this gradely stuff
An' nudge me when ah've 'ad enough"

A Lancashire 'Grace before a meal'

[Owd Bob]

Thas reet thee're Apollo! Remember in the '70's when there was a lot of folk clubs and local dialect stuff about around here? My Mum brought this old L.P. round to me on Saturday, it seemed funny at the time, but it's very dated now, we had (to suffer)the likes of The Houghton weavers, Bob Williamson etc. etc.  Not sure if our local dialect is dying out as much as some reckon but both my Daughters came back from their respective Uni's with what sounded to me like posh foreign accents.

  

[Edwardian]

Thas reet thee're Apollo! Remember in the '70's when there was a lot of folk clubs and local dialect stuff about around here? My Mum brought this old L.P. round to me on Saturday, it seemed funny at the time, but it's very dated now, we had (to suffer)the likes of The Houghton weavers, Bob Williamson etc. etc.  Not sure if our local dialect is dying out as much as some reckon but both my Daughters came back from their respective Uni's with what sounded to me like posh foreign accents.

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Not to mention the Lancashire Martial Arts Revival of the 1970s .....

[APOLLO]

It's allreet for yoe Leighers Bob, us Wigginers have these lot to put up wi- it's bedlam on a Friday neet when they land !!

 

 

Brit15

[Owd Bob]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that Apollo   I did laugh at the end when i saw Wigans motto though...who are they trying to kid!  I'nt Bill Oddie frum Owdum? 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Owd Bob