Third-Rail EMU Photos

[Siberian Snooper]

9 hours ago, Davexoc said:

That trackwork should be in a prototype for everything. The second point on the right should have been a righthander, but all that was available was a Y...

 

From the components, you can build a turnout whichever way you like, until you bolt the chairs to the timbers.

 

 

 

 

[jbqfc]

700132 at Ifield station Crawley 

brace, on Flickr

 

700132 by john

700132 by john brace, on Flickr

Edited October 3, 2019 by jbqfc
to change the order of pics

[4630]

15 hours ago, Davexoc said:

That trackwork should be in a prototype for everything. The second point on the right should have been a righthander, but all that was available was a Y...

 

It's probably been like that since the last revision to the yard, which I believe was between 1975-1981.  Unless the odd bits of rail which seem to be scattered in the four foot are indicative of some later piecemeal replacement. 

 

As you hint, you can just imagine some 'know it all' saying loudly at an exhibition "You'd never see track laid like that on the real railway".

[malcolmcelyn]

On 18/09/2019 at 18:56, Northmoor said:

Most liveries grow on me after a while.  This one isn't.

I don't particularly follow the railway scene in the South and East of the country, but don't you find all these "Janet and John go painting" colour schemes horrible? No class, like the old Big Four, no obvious class designation, like the yellow/red stripes on BR blue vehicles. And the ultimate insult? Painting doors a different colour so you can see them! All designed by five year-olds with crayons!

[eastwestdivide]

19 minutes ago, malcolmcelyn said:

And the ultimate insult? Painting doors a different colour so you can see them!

OK, I'll bite. A requirement to help the partially-sighted. Also useful to the fully-sighted to distinguish staff doors from passenger doors as on the Thameslink train two posts above.

[grahame]

Painting doors a different colour isn't something that is restricted to and only occurs in the South East. My understanding is that it is a requirement to assist visually disabled passengers.

 

And lairy 'janet and john' liveries can be found on trains all over the country - not just limited to those in the SE.

 

Plus there have been class distinction identifiers recently used since BR. For example SWTs used a line of blue dots (rather than a yellow stripe) to indicate first class.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by grahame

[malcolmcelyn]

33 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

OK, I'll bite. A requirement to help the partially-sighted. Also useful to the fully-sighted to distinguish staff doors from passenger doors as on the Thameslink train two posts above.

Ok, so people managed for years with doors being the same colour as the body, but I guess that's "progress"! 

 

And lairy 'janet and john' liveries can be found on trains all over the country - not just limited to those in the SE.

 

Sorry, I wasn't too clear - I wasn't trying to imply that it's only in the SE, it's just that most of the images in this post were from that area. The fact you used the word "lairy" sort of backs up how I feel!

 

Plus there have been class distinction identifiers recently used since BR. For example SWTs used a line of blue dots (rather than a yellow stripe) to indicate first class.

 

I wasn't aware of that, but perhaps I'm bemoaning the 'universal' indication of the yellow or red stripe.

 

So that's two people at least who disagree! Is it a 'generational' thing? Or am I just an old fuddy-duddy? 

(P.S. The GWR green livery with gold accent strip - nee lining - is quite good. Rather more restrained than many others!)

[Pete 75C]

1 hour ago, eastwestdivide said:

OK, I'll bite. A requirement to help the partially-sighted. Also useful to the fully-sighted to distinguish staff doors from passenger doors as on the Thameslink train two posts above.

 

16 minutes ago, malcolmcelyn said:

Ok, so people managed for years with doors being the same colour as the body, but I guess that's "progress"!

 

You're spot on, it IS progress. If it makes travelling easier for just a handful of visually impaired folk, it's a very good thing. The fact that it offends your aesthetic pleasure is of no consequence to anyone at all, sorry!

[eastwestdivide]

12 minutes ago, malcolmcelyn said:

Ok, so people managed for years with doors being the same colour as the body, but I guess that's "progress"!  ...

You've hit the nail on the head there, it is progress, without the quote marks.

Just like the greater availability of ramps, lifts etc for the less mobile, doors that no longer require physical origami to lean through the window to open from outside when you're inside, toilets that don't splash unmentionables all over the trackside, PA announcements on the train of the next station backed up with a visual display... 

 

On the other hand, I'd agree that a universal indicator (like the yellow stripe) for first class might be useful in what's meant to be a single network, but even that's rendered partly unnecessary by platform indicators which show you where on the platform the first class (and second) will be (at least in theory!)

[malcolmcelyn]

9 minutes ago, Pete 75C said:

 

 

You're spot on, it IS progress. If it makes travelling easier for just a handful of visually impaired folk, it's a very good thing. The fact that it offends your aesthetic pleasure is of no consequence to anyone at all, sorry!

 

I accept that it is progress to help visually handicapped people (or should that be visually impaired?), but wether my aesthetic pleasure is thereby impaired is of consequence. That's what the post was about - aesthetics. Yes, of course disability awareness is important; but I was approaching it from a purely 'visual' viewpoint. Sorry if people find that offensive. It was meant to prompt a discussion on the merits of 'old' versus 'new' liveries.

[eastwestdivide]

4 minutes ago, malcolmcelyn said:

 

I accept that it is progress to help visually handicapped people (or should that be visually impaired?), but wether my aesthetic pleasure is thereby impaired is of consequence. That's what the post was about - aesthetics. Yes, of course disability awareness is important; but I was approaching it from a purely 'visual' viewpoint. Sorry if people find that offensive. It was meant to prompt a discussion on the merits of 'old' versus 'new' liveries.

I didn't find your post offensive, but it did seem to be written without any knowledge of the reason for the door colours, hence my original reply by way of explanation.

 

Anyway, perhaps it's time to drag things back to nice pics of 3rd rail EMUs, colourful or otherwise.

Have a 4-CEP formation on a fast service at Tonbridge overtaking a 4-VEP on a stopper from Ashford in 1984:

 

[grahame]

54 minutes ago, malcolmcelyn said:

Ok, so people managed for years with doors being the same colour as the body, but I guess that's "progress"! 

 

And lairy 'janet and john' liveries can be found on trains all over the country - not just limited to those in the SE.

 

Sorry, I wasn't too clear - I wasn't trying to imply that it's only in the SE, it's just that most of the images in this post were from that area. The fact you used the word "lairy" sort of backs up how I feel!

 

Plus there have been class distinction identifiers recently used since BR. For example SWTs used a line of blue dots (rather than a yellow stripe) to indicate first class.

 

I wasn't aware of that, but perhaps I'm bemoaning the 'universal' indication of the yellow or red stripe.

 

So that's two people at least who disagree! Is it a 'generational' thing? Or am I just an old fuddy-duddy? 

(P.S. The GWR green livery with gold accent strip - nee lining - is quite good. Rather more restrained than many others!)

 

Yep, it certainly sounds like you might be a fuddy duddy. But I doubt it is generational thing - I'm old enough to remember steam trains in service when the liveries were generally unattractive and dull, dreary and often dirty IMO.

 

Of course the majority of images are from the SE. That is where the majority of third rail EMUs run and that is what the thread is about.

 

Identification strips may have been used around the country but were probably not universal and probably not understood by a great many passengers. Do you know what a roof level wide red stripe meant? A lot of passengers didn't.

 

And 'lairy' doesn't back up how you feel - it means ostentatiously attractive and flashy. It's quite possible that is how some TOCs would like to present themselves. It doesn't mean designed by 'five year olds with crayons'.

[iands]

1 hour ago, malcolmcelyn said:

Ok, so people managed for years with doors being the same colour as the body, but I guess that's "progress"! 

I think it would be fairer to say that quite a number of visually impaired people struggled, rather than managed, with doors being the same colour as the body. And indeed, that is progress!

[malcolmcelyn]

1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

Yep, it certainly sounds like you might be a fuddy duddy. But I doubt it is generational thing - I'm old enough to remember steam trains in service when the liveries were generally unattractive and dull, dreary and often dirty IMO.

 

Of course the majority of images are from the SE. That is where the majority of third rail EMUs run and that is what the thread is about.

 

Identification strips may have been used around the country but were probably not universal and probably not understood by a great many passengers. Do you know what a roof level wide red stripe meant? A lot of passengers didn't.

 

And 'lairy' doesn't back up how you feel - it means ostentatiously attractive and flashy. It's quite possible that is how some TOCs would like to present themselves. It doesn't mean designed by 'five year olds with crayons'.

Ouch!

[malcolmcelyn]

28 minutes ago, iands said:

I think it would be fairer to say that quite a number of visually impaired people struggled, rather than managed, with doors being the same colour as the body. And indeed, that is progress!

I'm not disagreeing, but was trying to compare older paint schemes with modern ones. I wasn't trying to make a point against visually impaired people at all, although it looks like I was a bit unsuccessful at that. My apologies for any offence caused. 

[4630]

12 minutes ago, malcolmcelyn said:

My apologies for any the offence caused. 

 

Corrected your post for you.  No thanks required.

[malcolmcelyn]

1 hour ago, eastwestdivide said:

I didn't find your post offensive, but it did seem to be written without any knowledge of the reason for the door colours, hence my original reply by way of explanation.

 

 

Thanks, thats how I took it.

I was just trying to initiate a discussion on the merits of livery, not offending people.

[malcolmcelyn]

5 minutes ago, 4630 said:

 

Corrected your post for you.  No thanks required.

Thanks? That's rather presumptuous of you. I had already apologised to ANY one who was offended. Not all were. 

I wanted to hear peoples opinions on livery. Seems I've made a mess of that and have said Sorry for that.

[grahame]

13 minutes ago, malcolmcelyn said:

 

I wanted to hear peoples opinions on livery. Seems I've made a mess of that and have said Sorry for that.

 

So it seems.

 

If you wanted to initiate discussion about liveries and to hear people opinions about them it might have been better to ask what people thought rather than launch in to a negative rant about modern liveries and potentially put their backs up. It probably wasn't the best way to introduce yourself to the thread.

 

If you prefer older more restrained liveries put forward the reasons why and some points in favour of them. Being critical about modern liveries gives the impression you'd prefer an argument rather than any meaningful discourse.

 

Now that you've apologized perhaps we can start again.

[malcolmcelyn]

17 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

So it seems.

 

If you wanted to initiate discussion about liveries and to hear people opinions about them it might have been better to ask what people thought rather than launch in to a negative rant about modern liveries and potentially put their backs up. It probably wasn't the best way to introduce yourself to the thread.

 

If you prefer older more restrained liveries put forward the reasons why and some points in favour of them. Being critical about modern liveries gives the impression you'd prefer an argument rather than any meaningful discourse.

 

Now that you've apologized perhaps we can start again.

Thank you.

 

[lmsforever]

Many of the new liveries are good but the liveries specified by the DFT are  boring, I like the Trans Pennine colours on the new loco hauled units they convey a dynamic feel and are good to look at.Deciding on a livery is a difficult project and has to be delivered in a manner that brings cudos to the TOC sometimes it goes wrong as in the gold of West Midlands but at least we have a colourful railway.Think back to BR  blue was the colour with cream as a relief on some stock this was done to save money and give a corporate livery who is to say what it would be now if BR still existed.  

[4630]

As an interlude from some of the current liveries, here's a bit of BR blue & grey then.

 

From a time when BR(S) units displayed 'proper numbers', 4Vep 7829 arrives at Brockenhurst with a '93' stopping service from London Waterloo to Bournemouth.  The Lymington service awaits in platform 4.  Unfortunately I didn't always date my photos at the time, but I'd estimated this one as around 1986-1987, just after Network SouthEast came into being as the platform lamp posts appear to have been repainted.

 

Here renumbered 4TC 8022 departs Brockenhurst as the end unit heading to London Waterloo.  This one is probably later than the previous image, so I'd estimate 1987-1988.

 

 

[4630]

A couple more BR blue & grey, this time from around Chichester and the West Coastway line circa 1985-87.

 

Departing Chichester heading for Portsmouth is 4Cig 7389 passing 33030.

 

 

I can't recall where I took this one, the 68 headcode is for Brighton to Bognor via Littlehampton, but I believe it's Angmering.  Showing evidence of recent renumbering 4Vep 3095.

[4630]

Sticking with BR blue & grey again...

 

A pair of Epb units in the low level platforms at London Bridge.

 

I can be certain about the date for that one - 23rd August 1986 - as I was there in connection with the London & Greenwich Railway 150th anniversary event which was taking place in nearby London Cannon Street.  There's a bit about the event here - https://www.kentrail.org.uk/L&GR 150.htm

 

Sticking with Epb units, here're 6214 and 5127 at Charing Cross, probably taken around 1988-1989.

 

 Shifting a generation in EMU body design, if not in traction equipment, class 455 5831 at East Croydon.  Again, probably taken around 1988-89.

Edited October 4, 2019 by 4630

[The Lurker]

19 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

 

 

Have a 4-CEP formation on a fast service at Tonbridge overtaking a 4-VEP on a stopper from Ashford in 1984:

 

That brings back memories. I used to commute to and from school in Tonbridge at that time.