Third-Rail EMU Photos

[Gwiwer]

7 minutes ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

Reading elsewhere, there are strong suggestions that the return of the two 377/1s and 23 377/5s on loan to SE, along at least some, if not all of the 387/1s from GN (replaced by 379s), will see the end of all of the 455s and 313s (although the 455, as you say, are scheduled to be dumped at the May timetable). Other timetable changes may release more stock, such as potentially truncating the MK services.

Broadly in line with what is already known and / or common belief around the traps.  

 

Southern 455s are to go in May lock, stock and EE507s.  There have been mutterings about a farewell tour but the environment isn't right (both within the industry and among the potential clientele) and it is extremely unlikely to happen.  SWR 455s will have to soldier on until they can get some 701s into traffic; that doesn't look like being this year as we are into March with not a single driver having started training never mind depot fitters / cleaners / station staff.  You might think cleaners don't need too much training - oh yes they do.  Failure to familiarise can lead to breaches of HaSaW law.  

 

The last pair of 377/1s is set to return from SE to Southern.  Some sources suggest some 377/5s are coming too in order to make up the required fleet strength.  They are already maintained at Selhurst, have always had Southern's green seats and IIRC are technically operated by Southern but sub-leased to SE.  

 

No word on the demise of the 313/2s, I'm afraid although their duties have been curtailed of late and they seldom work beyond Chichester.  That has two effects: it releases units to work more trips out of Brighton which in turn releases 377s for elsewhere.  And it reduces the service west of Chichester by around a half.  

 

The loss of 455s will mena Southern operates an all-Electrostar suburban fleet though with some 10-car diagrams reduced to seven (4+3+3 377 becomes 4+3) to match demand and stretch the fleet around the old 455 duties.  Some 10-car 377/6 or /7 duties may reduce to 5-car.  

 

The Milton Keynes service may never return.  If it does it is likely to be a Clapham - Watford shuttle which could be worked by TfL instead.  TfL has, of note, been training their drivers to and from Clapham on the 5-car 710/3 units in recent months.  Those, or two 4-car 710/2 units, would potentially release the remaining Southern 377s for Metro duty.  

[Northmoor]

Thanks for that update @Gwiwer; I've been planning a Southern DaySave itinerary for a while and this reminds me that the timetable has probably changed a lot since!  Not being able to do MK and back (actually I would turn back at Bletchley) is a bit of a loss, although if it goes to Watford that's still OK as could use the staff pass on LO, if it wasn't operated by Southern.

I definitely need to get out and photo some more of the 455s in action, certainly on SWR.  The number of BR-built locos and units still in service is shrinking with each passing year.

[Gwiwer]

Currently two Clapham - Milton Keynes services are advertised each weekday; the first and the last from a full timetable between Selhurst and MKC.  An hourly service is advertised on Saturdays (to and from Croydon) and on Sundays the hourly service which has only ever been Clapham - Watford on that day remains advertised.  

 

In reality these are the first services to be cut if drivers are required elsewhere.  The MKC trips have very seldom run on weekdays for many months (and were cancelled altogether during the lockdowns) with weekend services erratic at best.  None is expected to run today for example because the Metro service is also suffering from driver shortages.

 

As  driver route knowledge ceases it will become harder to offer a full service.  It is lightly used north of Watford at most times and there is spare capacity on the other services although not directly to / from the WLL and SR.  Southern has to staff Wembley Central for its trains to call there and can save by permanently abandoning that stop also; it is however one of the better-used ones with a modest number of customers boarding / alighting but all of whom could be accommodated on other, more frequent but slower,  services via Willesden Junction.  

[Nearholmer]

I’ve never quite understood the value of the off-peak weekday bit of the route north of Watford to MK. Pre-pandemic, there was a significant commuter traffic to/from west London, and at Weekends a surprising amount of leisure traffic, but at other times a connection at Watford was adequate, and didn’t impose a significant time penalty.

 

Travelling via a change at Willesden Junction is in “forget it” territory for anyone from north of Watford: two changes; loads of hanging about; annoying ups and downs if you have luggage or a pushchair; get in the car; M1 and North Circular; less hassle.

 

We live in MK, and my late father in law lived in Kensington, so we were well-versed in all the pros and cons.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Gwiwer]

Fares might also be an issue in play. 
 

Between Croydon and Harrow the service falls within the TfL six-zone system. Watford Junction is outside but can be reached on TfL “DC Line” services (only) at special fares. 
 

There are many fares routed “via Kensington Olympia” or “Not via London Terminals” which are significantly cheaper than those via Euston. 
 

It is a frequent event for customers to arrive at Clapham Junction from Gatwick Airport with such tickets and destined for, it seems, all points north. The intended route is via Milton Keynes. 
 

No easement has been applied in respect of Southern ceasing service which in turn means passengers, often with bulky luggage and unfamiliar with London or the UK, are obliged to cram into the always well-filled London Overground services with a change at Willesden Junction, another at Watford Junction and often as not a third at Milton Keynes thrown in as the price of a cheaper ticket. 
 

I suspect some may not bother with rail again after that. 

[Rugd1022]

Photographer unknown : Waterloo on 3rd June 1967, two days after the Beatles 'Sgt.Pepper' LP was released and a bonus Warship in the shape of D831 'Monarch'...

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Rugd1022

[simon b]

Back when EMU's had character. 

[Gwiwer]

45 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

Photographer unknown : Waterloo on 3rd June 1967, two days after the Beatles 'Sgt.Pepper' LP was released and a bonus Warship in the shape of D831 'Monarch'...

 

With a double-bonus in that S11179S, leading unit 3131 in that view, is preserved in the National Railway Museum.  One of only six extant 4-Cor vehicles with the other five being in the care of the Southern Electric Group running as unit 3142 though some coaches are from unit 3135.  Only one carriage of those five is currently operational.  

[Chris116]

40 minutes ago, simon b said:

Back when EMU's had character. 

And seats in trains had cushioning that you sank into!

[phil gollin]

4 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Photographer unknown : Waterloo on 3rd June 1967, two days after the Beatles 'Sgt.Pepper' LP was released and a bonus Warship in the shape of D831 'Monarch'...

 

.

 

I can't remember ever seeing a blue 4-COR looking so neat !    They weathered very quickly, and badly.

 

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[Gwiwer]

17 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

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I can't remember ever seeing a blue 4-COR looking so neat !    They weathered very quickly, and badly.

 

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Not all of them all of the time.  

 

Early blue (as shown here) weathered badly because it wasn't varnished - or if it was there was only a thin coat not the usual multiple rubbed-back layers built up.  The same was true for other units which had this style applied: 3H, 2-Hap, 2-EPB, 4-Cep and others.  All faded and looked careworn after a very short time and none seemed to be well varnished. 

 

Standard BR blue wore better.  I was a daily user of 4-Cor units along the Sussex coast in their final years.  All that we had were blue by then though I also remember green ones on peak-hour London trains a few years before.  The 4-Gri and 4-Buf units provided catering and whilst the Gri units did seem to be faded the rest - including the Cor fleet based at Brighton - was in reasonable condition for its age and was definitely run through the washer on a regular basis.  

[Gwiwer]

4 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

With a double-bonus in that S11179S, leading unit 3131 in that view, is preserved in the National Railway Museum.  One of only six extant 4-Cor vehicles with the other five being in the care of the Southern Electric Group running as unit 3142 though some coaches are from unit 3135.  Only one carriage of those five is currently operational.  

 

3 hours ago, Chris116 said:

And seats in trains had cushioning that you sank into!

 

As it's come up in conversation if anyone here is interested in helping to restore the preserved 3142 and sinking into those seats for a ride once more (albeit not under its own power for the time being) then please feel free to sign up ..... https://membermojo.co.uk/southernelectric  There's plenty in the Group for anyone with an interest in the SR's third-rail electrics.  And their diesel-electrics too.  

[zarniwhoop]

4 hours ago, phil gollin said:

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I can't remember ever seeing a blue 4-COR looking so neat !    They weathered very quickly, and badly.

 

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That was my first thought, but on looking for a little longer I decided that the carriage number was in 'straw' and therefore the far unit is in green with full yellow ends, the near one in very dull blue with small yellow panels.

 

Quite different to the west coastway units I used to see in about 1971, many were a comparatively pale blue.

[John M Upton]

From my archives, early days of Connex South Central and the Connex Express with refurbished Class 319's reclassified as 319/2:

 

[John M Upton]

...and also from 1994, 4-BIG 2205 in Littlehampton and the parking brake is on:

[Claude_Dreyfus]

 

Class 313s are not usual visitors to the Arun Valley (to be honest I have never seen one in the line, but I'm sure one or two may have ventured along it in the past), but 313121 is most definitely a rarity along here. It passed through Pulborough today forming the 5Z13 13:30 Eastleigh to Hornsey run. It had lost a bit of time by this point due to signal issues at Havant, but at the time of writing it has running about 20 minutes early approaching Mitre Bridge Junction.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Claude_Dreyfus
Testing reuploading image

[John M Upton]

A few 313's have gone up the valley as far as Arundel to reverse when a points failure occured between Littlehampton and Ford once.  313121 is probably the most frequent visitor north of there but this is unusual as it appears to be under its own power, more often than not is has to be towed due to frequently breaking down...

 

May I ask, was it going slowly?  There is a 20mph speed restriction for 313's in the up direction through Pulborough platform according to the Sectional Appendix.

Edited March 12, 2022 by John M Upton

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Not too sure how fast it was going to be honest, but it certainly wasn't hurrying. It was slow enough not to blur the pictures as it passed through, on what was an damp and dark day. Also, due to the delays earlier it had got itself stuck behind a stopper, which had just left the station as I arrived to take this photo.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Claude_Dreyfus

[Solo]

A little blurry but managed to bag a phone snap of a 450 (I think!) leaving Waterloo a couple of weeks back, I think the backdrop gives it a nice context.

[Northmoor]

No photo, but just wanted to report that 707031 has been sat all day in Woking Up yard, coupled to BR Blue 47749.

[Darius43]

Class 313 in the morning sunshine at Hove with (presumably withdrawn) Class 455s in the sidings.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[John M Upton]

455's supposedly in warm storage due to storm damage to the field sidings canopy's at Selhurst.  There is a twelve car set also parked up at Horsham Up Branch sidings as well.  Whether they will actually return to Selhurst and back into service?  Unlikely I reckon with so little time until they are officially finished.

 

[Grizz]

Thursday 17th March, 3131208 on the UP crossing the bridge over the River Ouse just south of Lewes with a Seaford to Brighton service. 
 

 

A couple of photos from yesterday, Saturday afternoon, Lewes station highlighted by the low sun, 313210…although my eyesight at that distance was 100% sure… sitting at Platform 5.

 

 

[eastwestdivide]

Couple of shots of EMUs in the urban landscape, taken from Rochester Castle in the nice March weather.

 

A 3-car 375 crossing the muddy creek just outside Strood station on a Medway Valley service via Maidstone West. One of these days, that creek and bridge might just form the basis of a tiny layout:

 

 

Another 375 creeps off Rochester Bridge (L) towards Rochester. In the background, the Soviet-era submarine, flying a Ukrainian flag (see https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124983-anyone-interested-in-ships/?do=findComment&comment=4778938 ) and on the hillside Frindsbury church.

 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

313207 approaches Ford with the 2P23 12:00 Bognor - Littlehampton shuttle on a sunny 10th April