Barnt Green to Bromsgrove Electrification

[melmerby]

I have seen an article, I think in Modern railways, saying that they are looking at repowering the 323's as the traction package is a but dated.

 

Jamie

The drive electronics have been updated in the last couple of years so not much to replace?

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2016/08/18/alstom-celebrates-class-323-modernisation-milestone/

 

Keith

[CovDriver]

The traction has been updated the whole of our LM fleet has been done now the only visible difference is the fault panel on the auxilliary control unit on the TS vehicle. It's not changed the way the unit drives at all but a lot less faults on the power side of things now.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[CovDriver]

I have seen an article, I think in Modern railways, saying that they are looking at repowering the 323's as the traction package is a but dated.

 

Jamie

Nothing wrong with the current traction package on the 323 fleet it's the rest of the unit that needs the work such as a full refurb on the interior as these are probably one of the most reliable EMU units to drive on such an intensive route.

I would very much like to see this article in the magazine.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[jamie92208]

Nothing wrong with the current traction package on the 323 fleet it's the rest of the unit that needs the work such as a full refurb on the interior as these are probably one of the most reliable EMU units to drive on such an intensive route.

I would very much like to see this article in the magazine.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

I think it was in Modern Railways and must have described the reasons behind the new traction package.  I'll try and find it and post the reference. 

 

Jamie

[Joseph_Pestell]

I certainly agree about refurbishing 323s. I have only travelled on one twice (Liverpool - Crewe and Stoke - Manchester). I am only 5'9 but found the legroom hopelessly inadequate.

[Northroader]

Out of curiosity, would the "Lickey Banker" be included in this scheme?

[melmerby]

Out of curiosity, would the "Lickey Banker" be included in this scheme?

Big Bertha with a pantograph?

 

A bit like a giant version of this:

http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselec5a.jpg

 

Now that would be something to see.

 

Keith

[jamie92208]

Big Bertha with a pantograph?

 

A bit like a giant version of this:

http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselec5a.jpg

 

Now that would be something to see.

 

Keith

Perhaps a 92 will be used instead of a 66.

 

Jamie

[Phil Bullock]

Perhaps a 92 will be used instead of a 66.

 

Jamie

 

92079 perhaps?

 

P

[Liam]

Perhaps a 92 will be used instead of a 66.

 

Jamie

 Or what about even an 86?

[phil-b259]

Perhaps a 92 will be used instead of a 66.

 

Jamie

 

 

 Or what about even an 86?

 

Please remember that the original cross city electrification done by BR as far as Barnt Green was done on a shoestring budget (i.e. traction supply only suitable for EMUs, not all lines wired, etc) due to the DfT not wanting to fund it in the first place. As such while a 92 night be fine on the newly electrified bank - getting it there could be a pain (they are very power hungry locos, the need to get them through new street, etc) and as such its hard to envisage anything other than diesel traction being used for banking (not that many trains need it these days).

Edited April 11, 2017 by phil-b259

[Edwin_m]

 Or what about even an 86?

An 86 would be pretty hopeless as a banker, given that the important requirements are weight and adhesion. 

[Liam]

Please remember that the original cross city electrification done by BR as far as Barnt Green was done on a shoestring budget (i.e. traction supply only suitable for EMUs, not all lines wired, etc) due to the DfT not wanting to fund it in the first place. As such while a 92 night be fine on the newly electrified bank - getting it there could be a pain (they are very power hungry locos, the need to get them through new street, etc) and as such its hard to envisage anything other than diesel traction being used for banking (not that many trains need it these days).

Not necessarily. It would take some planning, but you could bring the 92 towards New Street from the Wolverhampton direction but then take the avoiding lines to Stechford and then attach a diesel loco to drag it along the Camp Hill route to Kings Norton.

[melmerby]

Wouldn't an electric loco without load just consume enough power to drag it's own weight?

A 92 isn't going to be taking 6000+hp off the wiring whilst pootling along at say 30mph.

 

Keith

[Edwin_m]

Not necessarily. It would take some planning, but you could bring the 92 towards New Street from the Wolverhampton direction but then take the avoiding lines to Stechford and then attach a diesel loco to drag it along the Camp Hill route to Kings Norton.

That's rather a theoretical possibility I suggest.  You could just use the diesel to do the banking and not bother with the electric at all! 

[Edwin_m]

Wouldn't an electric loco without load just consume enough power to drag it's own weight?

A 92 isn't going to be taking 6000+hp off the wiring whilst pootling along at say 30mph.

 

Keith

I don't think there is a feeder station on the Bromsgrove extension, so the larger current being used during banking would have to flow through the wires on the existing Cross-City line from wherever it is fed. 

[melmerby]

I don't think there is a feeder station on the Bromsgrove extension, so the larger current being used during banking would have to flow through the wires on the existing Cross-City line from wherever it is fed. 

As I am writing this there are 7 CC trains South of New St with a potential power consumption (assuming all 6 car trains) of approx 16 Megawatts. One assumes there is some over capacity available as the newly electrified route will add an extra couple of EMUs per hour

Hardly an electrified route starved of power.

(N.B. 1 x 92 is equivalent to 4 x 323.)

 

Keith

[CovDriver]

Let's see what's compatible on the couplers of a 323 er that would be a 323 or a 321 with special permission and the use of a emergency adaptor coupler which we as in drivers have never been trained or even seen one so the chances of that and banking is very possibly never going to happen.

 

Colin

Edited April 11, 2017 by CovDriver

[Supaned]

Never say never, £5 says a 323 slips to a stand up the bank in autumn.

[D854_Tiger]

Please remember that the original cross city electrification done by BR as far as Barnt Green was done on a shoestring budget (i.e. traction supply only suitable for EMUs, not all lines wired, etc) due to the DfT not wanting to fund it in the first place. As such while a 92 night be fine on the newly electrified bank - getting it there could be a pain (they are very power hungry locos, the need to get them through new street, etc) and as such its hard to envisage anything other than diesel traction being used for banking (not that many trains need it these days).

 

I doubt it's viable (convenient) operationally as well.

 

Nowadays, the number of trains needing assistance up Lickey, on a daily basis, can vary from none to at most two or three.

 

The days of out-basing locomotives at Bromsgrove are long gone, the banker runs light engine from either Bescot or Washwood Heath (via routes that are un-electrified) and those locomotives are not dedicated to the banking operation, being used on workings elsewhere that you can guarantee have no scope to be electric.

 

On the days (early hours) there are no banking operations, chances are freight is being sent via the Stourbridge route, which requires the banking to be done up Old Hill bank, and again that kind of scuppers any ideas for a class 92.

[D854_Tiger]

Never say never, £5 says a 323 slips to a stand up the bank in autumn.

 

I would imagine Lickey is one of those stretches of railway that always comes in for special attention to ensure leaf fall is never a problem, certainly vegetation always looks to have been well cut back.

 

The comments I overheard referred to the units power and very much part of that equation will of course be the power available in the overhead, the doubts I heard weren't so much their ability to get up the hill but the time they might take to do so (from a standing start).

 

All things considered, I'm sure all of this will have been well thought out and any issues addressed before day to day operations begin, though testing might be fun.

[John_Miles]

A 170 stalled on the bank this autumn.

[D854_Tiger]

I've been up in a class 170 which seemed to cope quite well.

 

The only other time I've been up that hill, from a standing start, was in a class 116.

 

I was curious to see how the unit coped so had secured the front seat. It actually coped quite well, accelerating all the way, albeit quite slowly and not quite enough for the driver to put us into top gear.

 

Back in the day (1970s), I commuted quite regulatory between Worcester (Forgate Street) and Birmingham, in those days the service was dire, a real trawl.

 

Both ways, the only services available were all stations via Kidderminster, there were a few XC expresses that called at Worcester but needless to say of no use to me.

 

It took for ever to climb Old Hill bank, not helped by the need to stop half way at Old Hill. I can only remember one limited stop train that way, non stop Stourbridge to Smethwick West, but it was just a little too early for my timing (very frustrating).

 

Many the time our unit had to stop and summon assistance at Stourbridge, especially on a hot summer's day when the engines could overheat, there was always something knocking about though that could do so, usually a class 25.

[Zomboid]

There is no way they would be wiring to Bromsgrove if it required a new feeder station (maybe if the project was to Worcester or something that would justify something like that; feeder stations are the single most expensive part of an electrification), so the power supply will still be the same feeble arrangement that is there now. If a 92 would break it at Bourneville, it'll break it at Bromsgrove.

[Liam]

A 170 stalled on the bank this autumn.

On my way home from my namesake railway I was in a 153+170 formation with the 153 leading. You should have seen it march up the incline! I'm surprised a 170 stalled, although was it a LM or XC one?