Barnt Green to Bromsgrove Electrification

[melmerby]

Back in the day, I believe the limit for a class 45 (of similar power) unassisted was ten mk1s.

 

I travelled up from Cornwall to Birmingham in the early 60s when many of the SW to Midlands & North Trains had started using diesel traction.

A WR loco was used from Penzance to Bristol where a Peak was attached.

The route was via the Midland from Bristol & up the Lickey to New Street..

Expecting a banker I was surprised when we went straight up unassisted.

 

keith

[Liam]

Sadly, l was born a few years after nearly all trains on the Cross Country route were loco hauled, so I had to make do with HSTs but also sometimes class 47s.

[jamie92208]

One factor about the Voyagers slipping may be because they all have at least one power unit isolated to save money as far as I know.   Apparently the drivers hate it as the acceleration is much worse than it used to be.

 

Jamie

[Zomboid]

I travel on voyagers most days, and an engine being switched off is infrequent enough that I'd say it's because it's broken rather than a matter of course to save fuel.

[Northroader]

Two more thoughts occur to me on this job, I presume the Longbridge service will be extended to Bromsgrove, and also assume no work is happening to quad up the wires on the inner tracks Barnt Green - Kings Norton?

[melmerby]

Two more thoughts occur to me on this job, I presume the Longbridge service will be extended to Bromsgrove, and also assume no work is happening to quad up the wires on the inner tracks Barnt Green - Kings Norton?

Yes the plans appear to be that the 3 per hour Longbridge will be extended to Bromsgrove.

The fast lines will not AFAIK be included in this electrification add-on.

Unless it's changed the Cross City trains will use Platform 3 at Bromsgrove meaning through trains are looped via 4.

Cross Country has sent a letter of concern to Network Rail regarding the fact they will not be using the "Through" line.

 

What happens in the future on the Cross City route one can only guess as there are plans to re-open the Camp Hill route to local passenger services and via chord lines at Bordesley access Moor St. Station from both the South and North off the Midland route.

 

Keith

Edited April 15, 2017 by melmerby

[Liam]

Yes the plans appear to be that the 3 per hour Longbridge will be extended to Bromsgrove.

The fast lines will not AFAIK be included in this electrification add-on.

Unless it's changed the Cross City trains will use Platform 3 at Bromsgrove meaning through trains are looped via 4.

Cross Country has sent a letter of concern to Network Rail regarding the fact they will not be using the "Through" line.

 

What happens in the future on the Cross City route one can only guess as there are plans to re-open the Camp Hill route to local passenger services and via chord lines at Bordesley access Moor St. Station from both the South and North off the Midland route.

 

Keith

As far as I recall there was only one station on the Camp Hill route - Moseley. Perhaps there are plans to open more.

[melmerby]

As far as I recall there was only one station on the Camp Hill route - Moseley. Perhaps there are plans to open more.

Several originally:

Lifford, Hazelwell, King's Heath, Moseley, Brighton Road & Camp Hill.

I can remember King's Heath Station which is where Homebase is now.

Logmoor building supplies is where Camp Hill was:

https://goo.gl/maps/uMoQ1WHdK3H2

Note the typically cobbled entrance!

 

Some of Hazelwell Still exists:

It's been remodelled a bit but still stands.

https://goo.gl/maps/WMT346rBWkN2

 

As it was:

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrhaz844.htm

 

Much changed but apparently the same building!

 

Keith

Edited April 15, 2017 by melmerby

[The Stationmaster]

Back in the day, I believe the limit for a class 45 (of similar power) unassisted was ten mk1s.

 

When Virigin were running XC they operated a through train on summer Saturdays from Manchester - Penzance formed of a WCML mk3 set, normally used on weekday Euston - Manchester services.

 

As the train was electric worked as far as New St, the formation included the DVT plus eight mk3s the normal WCML formation.

 

Although a mk1 was slightly heavier than a mk3, being non-air conditioned they had a much lower power requirement.

 

A single class 47 took over at New St then tackled both Lickey and the Devon banks, both ways, progress was a bit slow but great fun was had by all the cranks.

 

Maximum load up the Lickey for a Class 45 (and 44 & 46 - no distinction way back when) was 465 tons and 515 tons for a D15/16XX (Class 47) so a load of 10 MkIs would be well under the permitted maximum but the actual load would be the 'Timing Load' and that  would inevitably be much less than the Maximum Load.

[melmerby]

Further to my above post

 

Re-opening of the Camp Hill route for local passenger services is proposed "By 2025" with new stations at Hazelwell, King's Heath & Moseley.

(West Midlands Combined Authority/TfWM)

 

Keith

[Liam]

I expect the Camp Hill route will be well used by schoolchildren; there are two schools (I think private) separate for boys and girls around Camp Hill/Stirchley.

[John_Miles]

Yes the plans appear to be that the 3 per hour Longbridge will be extended to Bromsgrove.

The fast lines will not AFAIK be included in this electrification add-on.

Unless it's changed the Cross City trains will use Platform 3 at Bromsgrove meaning through trains are looped via 4.

Cross Country has sent a letter of concern to Network Rail regarding the fact they will not be using the "Through" line.

 

What happens in the future on the Cross City route one can only guess as there are plans to re-open the Camp Hill route to local passenger services and via chord lines at Bordesley access Moor St. Station from both the South and North off the Midland route.

 

Keith

 

Cross Country down trains are already using the loop line (platform 4?). I believe the line speed is 90 which is pretty much the line speed for the whole of Bromsgrove to Cheltenham.

[Siberian Snooper]

Am I right in thinking that I may have been behind a Western from Plymouth to New Street in the early 70s.

[Liam]

Am I right in thinking that I may have been behind a Western from Plymouth to New Street in the early 70s.

If one got to Leeds in 1977 and the Cheltenham Spa stop was very brief then yes you probably are right.

[Supaned]

One factor about the Voyagers slipping may be because they all have at least one power unit isolated to save money as far as I know.   Apparently the drivers hate it as the acceleration is much worse than it used to be.

 

Jamie

The engine isolation program has now been replaced by a box on the dashboard which "advises" drivers how to drive efficiently and save fuel , so in theory all engines should now be in operation. As has been said , there are units running around with isolated engines , usually due to oil or coolant leaks , which require an engine change to repair.

 

In autumn/low adhesion season , all engines "should" be working to provide maximum traction power , all 220 and 221s are now fitted with a new sanding system meaning drivers can also apply sand for traction purposes , so in theory there should be no further issues on the Lickey.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Supaned

[D854_Tiger]

Am I right in thinking that I may have been behind a Western from Plymouth to New Street in the early 70s.

 

In the early 70s, there was a summer Saturday service from Penzance that was booked a Western through to New St.

 

It used to arrive New St mid-afternoon and for us spotters, too young to remember them at Snow Hill, it was event of the week. 

 

It's difficult to underestimate the power of the regions back then, the nationalised railway was still largely being run as if it was still the big four, with all the demarcation that entailed, and for us that meant a permanent diet of LM types.

[melmerby]

In the early 70s, there was a summer Saturday service from Penzance that was booked a Western through to New St.

 

It used to arrive New St mid-afternoon and for us spotters, too young to remember them at Snow Hill, it was event of the week. 

 

Westerns were also regulars on the remaining Paddington services that were run from New St Station.

 

 

 

It's difficult to underestimate the power of the regions back then, the nationalised railway was still largely being run as if it was still the big four, with all the demarcation that entailed, and for us that meant a permanent diet of LM types.

 

Like in the days of steam when areas/sheds  would change from one region to another and there would be a wholesale transfer of loco types in and out.

e.g. Bromsgrove got moved into the WR and all the old MR types were replaced by loads of panniers!

 

Keith

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by melmerby

[Phil Bullock]

In the early 70s, there was a summer Saturday service from Penzance that was booked a Western through to New St.

 

It used to arrive New St mid-afternoon and for us spotters, too young to remember them at Snow Hill, it was event of the week. 

 

It's difficult to underestimate the power of the regions back then, the nationalised railway was still largely being run as if it was still the big four, with all the demarcation that entailed, and for us that meant a permanent diet of LM types.

 

1M22 (10.55 Plymouth to Liverpool Lime Street in 1971/2) often produced a WIzzo 5 days a week in the early 70s - loco came off at New Street and returned south later that day 

 

Explorer and Sentinel seemed to be fairly regular performers

 

Regarding Mike's comments about loadings as he says there was a maximum load for loco types but this was further restricted by timings

 

For example the only daytime train that I can remember was booked to take the bankers was 1S27 07.10 Paignton - Edinburgh in 71/2 and that was on timing reference 5 - load 365 tons for a class 45/6.. Theres a smashing photos here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-4th-march/page-375 in Dave F's photo thread with load 13 - 400 plus tons - hence the need for the bankers. You can see from the make up that there is adequate catering provision and that is is a multiportion train that IIRC split at Carstairs with an Edinburgh and Glasgow portion

 

Operations were much more interesting then!

 

Phil

[TheSignalEngineer]

1M22 (10.55 Plymouth to Liverpool Lime Street in 1971/2) often produced a WIzzo 5 days a week in the early 70s - loco came off at New Street and returned south later that day 

 

Explorer and Sentinel seemed to be fairly regular performers

 

Wasn't that the one booked to call at Worcester Shrub Hill? My cousin was at school at Droitwich in 1970/71 and the railway was visible from his classroom. I used to get regular reports as to what was on that train.

[Phil Bullock]

Wasn't that the one booked to call at Worcester Shrub Hill? My cousin was at school at Droitwich in 1970/71 and the railway was visible from his classroom. I used to get regular reports as to what was on that train.

 

It certainly was! 3 minutes past 3 off Shrub Hill. Embedded in the psyche of our deputy head at the grammar school as he knew his best chance of catching trainspotting recalcitrants bunking off was when they wanted to cop what was on this train

 

Phil

[Phil Bullock]

And no sign of 1M22 - and this link has been posted on a different thread before - but its well worth seeing again in this context

 

http://www.macearchive.org/Archive/Title/atv-today-10101972-railway-cottages-at-blackwell/MediaEntry/18107.html

 

The attitude of the inhabitants is stoical to say the least!

 

And it might not be 1M22 but you will get the effect ! https://www.flickr.com/photos/wulfruna_kid/33069131616/in/photolist-8cVxtJ-D9CtyG-SocWHE-gWF6LF-s1tzK2-oeWhiN-gWEiGC-eZAY4w-oenZFS-mUYBwn-e7Bb97-QvPdFc-nAYTPv-8MshuQ-r7FFJ8-daLMdw-pmce8K-nqVNuR-gWEa6w-sgqmP7-6yny6X-o7KpqF-aZTtdk-6gKxfZ-g2enAu-ax3CV9-aZTtNr-App18D-daw925-gWEtqq-pmbJS7-dckHBy-gWEbC8-78JmoQ-eSgXGH-o11Jzd-gWEoz4-rya9ZT-gWEc62-pzF13L-9VPR5A-db3L4Q-pCFx8Z-aZTtB6-8Mpdu4-bJuuc8-o6f7TH-gWEqKN-hfjGjy-aHFpZB

 

A smashing picture from John Whitehouse - extra special for me as I was on the train, a great day out!
 

Phil

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Phil Bullock

[Liam]

I was in Edinburgh today and shocked to find a service going to Liverpool Lime Street! I think Crosscountry should reintroduce the Penzance - Liverpool trains once operated by GWR (the old one that is)

[Phil Bullock]

I was in Edinburgh today and shocked to find a service going to Liverpool Lime Street! I think Crosscountry should reintroduce the Penzance - Liverpool trains once operated by GWR (the old one that isn

 

Ah yes - but I suspect back in the day the GWR went via Hereford not up the Lickey....

 

And a quick peruse of the Trainline suggests that if I want to do the trip next Tuesday it will cost me....£372!!!!!

 

Phil

[Tavy Man]

Yes the plans appear to be that the 3 per hour Longbridge will be extended to Bromsgrove.

The fast lines will not AFAIK be included in this electrification add-on.

Unless it's changed the Cross City trains will use Platform 3 at Bromsgrove meaning through trains are looped via 4.

Cross Country has sent a letter of concern to Network Rail regarding the fact they will not be using the "Through" line.

 

What happens in the future on the Cross City route one can only guess as there are plans to re-open the Camp Hill route to local passenger services and via chord lines at Bordesley access Moor St. Station from both the South and North off the Midland route.

 

Keith

Platform 4 at Bromsgrove is not a loop line it is known as the Down Gloucester with a line speed of 90mph. Platform 3 is known as the Down Bromsgrove Station Loop with a maximum speed of 40mph and will be the preferred Cross City platform.

Cross Country have not sent letters of concern to Network Rail regarding the station layout. The only concern is the lack of OLE on platform 1 the Up Bromsgrove Loop. As only platforms 2 and 3 are being wired, if anything prevents Cross City services using platform 3 then platform 2 the Up Gloucester is the only alternative. This means fast trains will have to use platform 1 with the subsequent delay of the 30mph restriction.

However, it is still hoped that sense will prevail and platform 1 will be wired as well.

 

Regards

[Liam]

Ah yes - but I suspect back in the day the GWR went via Hereford not up the Lickey....

 

And a quick peruse of the Trainline suggests that if I want to do the trip next Tuesday it will cost me....£372!!!!!

 

Phil

That would probably buy all the stock and most of the track for 'Kinlet'!