Heljan announces the development of a Class 50

[mdvle]

It is also worth remembering that Heljan now have a new UK representative, someone who I am sure will not accept second best, when he himself has through his previous employments been paid to look for discrepancies in models, and report them to us. Over to you, Ben.

 

I do hope that the future ends up being better for Heljan's UK products, but to be fair to Ben:

 

1) the statement announcing him stated he would be gradually taking over during a period of a few months - open to speculation then when he will actually be in charge but it may not be yet.

 

2) his ability to change / influence projects that are already in the pipeline may be minimal to non existent depending on how much has already been spent, thus it won't be fair to judge him on the first group of items released once he has taken over.

 

In the specific case of the Class 50 only those in the industry would know but to me a major reworking of the molds to fix the front end would seem to be expensive, possibly requiring entirely new molds.  I would however be happy to be proven wrong.

 

As for the A4, it is not a Heljan model.  The A3 and A4 are Hatton's models, being made by Heljan for Hattons, with Hattons having the final say.

[delticfan]

Exactly the attention to comments by Hatton is why I am spending £1500 on an A3 and A4. I won’t be paying for another substandard model by Heljan just because they like churning them out. Ah well more cash to spend on something else.

[blueeighties]

.

Edited June 14, 2018 by blueeighties

[blueeighties]

Still at least they have kept the kit manufacturers in business

Really? Not in the case of JLTRT.

[admiles]

    shame , it could be worse though - you could be modelling N gauge  - Dapols attempt is no better.

I fear that the fact we are seeing a real life plastic pre production model basically means most of the metal has been cut now -  little things can be tweaked yes, but I think its beyond the point where major shape errors can be corrected (be nice to be proved wrong though)  It does seem like the class 60 and 52 all over again.

Here, by the way is what a 50 should look like: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112640-trethosa/page-2 it may be a 4mm scale model but  more usefully, the corrections to the RTR model give a good guide/explanation to getting the cab looking right. Heljan and Dapol would do well to have a read of that thread very carefully - its brilliant. 

Jon 

 

Jon,

 

I do also model N gauge!  Part of the reason I branched out into O was the lack of a decent N gauge class 50......

 

And I agree with you. I suspect (and I'm happy to be proved very wrong) that Heljan are now past the stage where a major change to the shape of the cab

is possible. A crying shame that they choose to poison the well as far as the LLC model is concerned.

[Gary H]

Jon,

 

I do also model N gauge!  Part of the reason I branched out into O was the lack of a decent N gauge class 50......

 

And I agree with you. I suspect (and I'm happy to be proved very wrong) that Heljan are now past the stage where a major change to the shape of the cab

is possible. A crying shame that they choose to poison the well as far as the LLC model is concerned.

That's just it in a nut shell!

We could have got a great Class 50 from LLC until Heljan tipped up with a model (another one) with shape errors.

With the greatest respect to Ben, (the Heljan rep), Heljan do have previous form of asking for feedback on a prototype put into the public domain and then taking no notice of any critics when they point out the errors.

Unfortunately, I don't think this latest venture will be any different but I would love to be proved wrong!

Sadly I suspect the tooling is now at an advanced stage and to change it now would be costly.

[43179]

Jon,

 

I do also model N gauge!  Part of the reason I branched out into O was the lack of a decent N gauge class 50......

 

And I agree with you. I suspect (and I'm happy to be proved very wrong) that Heljan are now past the stage where a major change to the shape of the cab

is possible. A crying shame that they choose to poison the well as far as the LLC model is concerned.

Its not easy being a class 50 fan is it !  Likewise  - Id love an accurate 50 , I don't care what scale to be honest , I'd just be happy to support and buy a new model as long as its the right shape! 

[NIRCLASS80]

It's a shame Heljan hadn't concentrated on fixing their Class 25, 31, 37, 47, 52, and 55 before starting a project to rush a 50 to market to beat a rival firm. I just hope they improve the 50 before releasing it.

[MGR Hooper!]

Bummer! We've lost the better O gauge Class 50 and stuck with a box with 12 wheels.... 

Edited June 15, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[DavidM]

Bummer! We've lost the better O gauge Class 50 and stuck with a box with 12 wheels.... 

 

As there was nothing physical shown for the LLC 50 it can't really be stated which was better or worse?

Edited June 15, 2018 by DavidM

[blueeighties]

As there was nothing physical shown for the LLC 50 it can't really be stated which was better or worse?

Absolutely. So many armchair experts happy to rubbish a product before ithe final approved sample has been seen, let alone manufactured. All very sad, I wouldn't like to be involved in manufacture these days with so many depressing moaners.

[MGR Hooper!]

As there was nothing physical shown for the LLC 50 it can't really be stated which was better or worse?

So you're saying we cannot look back at the history of a manufacturer and see for ourselves? LLC's Class 15 is fabulous and so is their upcoming Ruston. We've seen it while it has been developed and the amount of work and dedication they put into it. Knowing the person behind the CAD work of the LLC Class 22 is also a benefit here.

 

What has Heljan really got? Basically ever model from Heljan I can remember has either had incorrect dimensions or unreliable build quality. Heljan have been politely notified of the many errors on their models months in advance and nothing has been corrected. I have absolutely no ill will towards Heljan. But their history with getting feedback and reacting to it hasn't been anything near positive. Not to mention every conversation with a Heljan rep has made me feel that they think they know everything. But their products don't say that do they.

[admiles]

Absolutely. So many armchair experts happy to rubbish a product before ithe final approved sample has been seen, let alone manufactured. All very sad, I wouldn't like to be involved in manufacture these days with so many depressing moaners.

 

Well we've seen photos of the sample Heljan have release and it contains some glaring errors. As I've already said I suspect by this stage in the development of the model it's too late to change those errors. Again as stated I'd love to be proved wrong by Heljan. Do you honestly think they'll change the tooling at this stage?

 

As for being an armchair expert I simply look at the sample Heljan have produced and, to me at least, some very key features look wrong when compared to photos of the real thing. Why does that make me an "armchair expert"?  This is after all a pretty expensive model we're taking about.

Edited June 15, 2018 by admiles

[NIRCLASS80]

Absolutely. So many armchair experts happy to rubbish a product before ithe final approved sample has been seen, let alone manufactured. All very sad, I wouldn't like to be involved in manufacture these days with so many depressing moaners.

I tell you what’s really sad, paying £600 for an incorrect model.

Does errors not matter? I think it should when forking out your hard earned cash.

[The Ghost of IKB]

Absolutely. So many armchair experts happy to rubbish a product before ithe final approved sample has been seen, let alone manufactured. All very sad, I wouldn't like to be involved in manufacture these days with so many depressing moaners.

The truly sad thing is that Heljan have repeatedly clutched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Again and again their models just don't quite meet expectations. Incorrect proportions that mean models just look wrong or in the case of the oo9 loco, just won't run well. What's more they aren't cheap! For the price of a couple of plastic locos that are misproportioned and will annoy me everytime i look at them i could buy a 55" tv, or even a second hand car! Im happy to pay good money for good products, and Heljan are welcome to a big share of it..... but they need to do far better before they get their hands on my dosh!

[47164]

Mmm Ikb.. perhaps true for O guage where I would be inclined to agree....but in the main 00 guage has produced some stunning non runof the mill locos after a dodgy start with the 47 which despite its faults had a first class power unit and a wide variety of liveries, probably only matched by Lima !

[The Ghost of IKB]

Mmm Ikb.. perhaps true for O guage where I would be inclined to agree....but in the main 00 guage has produced some stunning non runof the mill locos after a dodgy start with the 47 which despite its faults had a first class power unit and a wide variety of liveries, probably only matched by Lima !

 

yes, in fairness i was largely thinking of the O gauge range, although not all the oo has been a triumph, wrong shaped roof on the 33, the tubby duff and the western cab being examples, not to mention the saga of the class 17 mechanism.

Edited June 15, 2018 by The Ghost of IKB

[Guest teacupteacup]

I tell you what’s really sad, paying £600 for an incorrect model.

Does errors not matter? I think it should when forking out your hard earned cash.

No one is forcing you to pay for it!

[delticfan]

I might be wrong but it seems that Heljan don’t care because they offload all of their units produced onto either, tower models, hattons or rails of sheffield to name three. If it was me I wouldn’t break my neck to produce a near perfect model if I could sell all of what I produce. It would be a waste of money to rehash models to the whims of the modeller. So with that in mind the only way to make them rethink would be not to buy the stuff in the first place. I was up for two 50’s but the cash is now destined for Dapol HAA wagons. Sorry Heljan lol!

[jjb1970]

Heljan models can be curates eggs, brilliant in places and so-so in other places. However they've made some models I never thought I'd ever see done RTR and for despite some issues for the most part the Heljan OO diesels I've bought from them have been pretty good and very smooth and powerful runners.

[NIRCLASS80]

No one is forcing you to pay for it!

I don't think I ever said I was ever being forced! I would just like to say that I will use my free right to fully support Heljan with my funds if the model is corrected.

 

I will also use my free right to say that a model looks incorrect.

[MGR Hooper!]

No one is forcing you to pay for it!

 

Similarly no one is forcing Heljan to constantly manufacture models that are incorrect and charge in the regions of 600 quid. The problem is that Heljan want to show us CAD work, they want to show us EP samples and yet they cannot accept feedback or they refuse to act upon the feedback given.

 

If that's their ideology then why show anything? Just announce the model and let it be discovered on shop shelves one day. Whenever given feedback you'll get Heljan rep saying they're already aware of the errors and/or they are working for approved scale drawings.

[Guest teacupteacup]

Similarly no one is forcing Heljan to constantly manufacture models that are incorrect and charge in the regions of 600 quid. The problem is that Heljan want to show us CAD work, they want to show us EP samples and yet they cannot accept feedback or they refuse to act upon the feedback given.

 

If that's their ideology then why show anything? Just announce the model and let it be discovered on shop shelves one day. Whenever given feedback you'll get Heljan rep saying they're already aware of the errors and/or they are working for approved scale drawings.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want, Heljan know they will sell as there are many more folk out there unaware of errors than there are on here that are aware. Maybe the Heljan designers can't see the issues being raised, maybe the margins are too tight to make tooling changes, or maybe they just dont care. Who knows.

 

The one thing for sure is that they will sell, and they will sell to people who are griping about the errors, and will continue to gripe about them, but do nothing about it, except buy more of them. Happens in all scales.

 

Yes the models should be right when it hits the shelves, but frequently they aren't, across all manufacturers and scales. Either we buy or don't. From some the errors can be lived with, for others they can't.

 

At the end of the day, its a toy train and not worth getting hot under the collar about.

[F-UnitMad]

The one thing for sure is that they will sell, and they will sell to people who are griping about the errors, and will continue to gripe about them, but do nothing about it, except buy more of them. Happens in all scales.

 

 

Or people just buy anyway, if they're desperate enough, and put up with the errors, because there's no viable alternative available? In this case, most unfortunately, for now there won't be. 

 

...and if anyone wants to crow about building kits instead, rather than putting up with sub-standard R-T-R, then:-

1) the JLTRT kit will no longer be available, and was equally - or more - expensive, once wheels/motors/gears/paints/transfers were added, &

 

2) the Thread about the build of a PRMRP Class 50 kit comes to mind, and what a nightmare for the builder that was - I think he gave up in the end?

Edited June 16, 2018 by F-UnitMad

[NIRCLASS80]

The one thing for sure is that they will sell, and they will sell to people who are griping about the errors, and will continue to gripe about them, but do nothing about it, except buy more of them. Happens in all scales.

 

Yes the models should be right when it hits the shelves, but frequently they aren't, across all manufacturers and scales. Either we buy or don't. From some the errors can be lived with, for others they can't.

 

At the end of the day, its a toy train and not worth getting hot under the collar about.

I think you will find that many things have been corrected by many manufacturers thanks to people pointing out errors (sorry gripes as you call them).

 

The fact is Heljan don’t have a great reputation so far at listening.

 

Still hoping this is the one they correct.