Smart Meter = smart move?

[30801]

Agree.

 

 

A check on the internet suggests around 3.5 miles per kWhr in mixed traffic.

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

My actual average over 23000 miles has been 4.1

That's mostly 'A' roads with a bit of motorway on long journeys.

[Sir TophamHatt]

But you can delay them.

And increase any stress of them coming round again?

May as well just join the masses and get it done.

 

Although that's a little hypocritical of me as I haven't investigated about getting one installed. But then nobody has come to bother me about one either.

 

 

 

..but on the bright side I don't have to call them (pay for it)

This is a key difference between people with landlines and people without.

I never understand it.

Yes, you pay "line rental" for a mobile phone, but calls are free.

 

I would have thought not responding to the email would automatically cancel the appointment as you've not confirmed it, nor wanted to change the date.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Sir TophamHatt

[locomad]

I have mentioned this before, there's a couple who own a property near me which I am the key holder, before they had a smart meter there electric bills,while they were away were very low if not zero. After a smart meter was installed there bills and usage seem to go up. I suggested the smart meter was using a small but significant amount of electricity, we are talking about kwh here not standing charge. During the summer months they have been away and turned off the electricity at the main switch, I've even handed the key back to them and they have confirmed no other key holders. Now on returning they have informed me that about £2.50 worth of electricity has been used per month dispite the main switch been turned off, they have had qualified electrical person to check any earth leakage.

 

Now in the meantime I have read various reports in main stream press and asked various experts via email one simple question "How much do smart meters cost to Run?", I've had no proper answers back other than a "small amount", "very small insignificant Amount" or common one "less than average Dumb Meter", but no one can tell us in mAamps per hour/Day/month.

 

Now I know that old meters use proportional amount per unit used,more electricity you use more the meter uses, it seems that smart meters use so much month whether you use a lot or a little or non at all.

 

So for those who use very little or less than average smart meters might not save you anything or even cost you more, the only thing I can assume that a little battery installed in them (in case of power Cut?) is been recharged

[SHMD]

I would have thought not responding to the email would automatically cancel the appointment as you've not confirmed it, nor wanted to change the date.

 

I didn't want to respond to the Email, just to see what the next page would show and not respond to that. Its just that the Email automatically jumped to an assumed choice I didn't want.

 

I will not click on any correspondence from them in future now.

 

 

Kev.

[JJGraphics]

There is an online calculator to work out how much energy and hence money you will save with smart meter.

Enter house type and floor area and it tells you a typical saving, based on bills of a typical figure per annum.

Sounded straightforward until you look at a typical bill and see it is way over what we pay.

Enter the actual amount per year and the saving plummets!

 

I originally applied for a smart meter in early 2016. A man duly came and checked everything but said the asbestos sheet under the gas meter must be removed.

"Someone will come and do that as I am not allowed to do it"

 

As Diana Ross said "I'm still waiting"

I haven't chased it up and wont bother doing so.

 

Keith

 

 

Our annual gas and electricity bill last year was £712. We are reasonably careful about switching unused things off, have a modern efficient gas boiler and good central heating controls and heat the house to a comfortable level as we both feel the cold. We have changed all lights to LED. We shower often and use the bath when we feel like it (all hot water is gas fired).

 

One calculator says we should save £126 on our annual bill with a smart meter which equates to a saving of 17.6% which is never going to happen unless we never wash and migrate to Africa for the winter!

 

Another reckons we should have an annual bill of £990 for our property and would save an even more improbable amount with a smart meter.

 

Just another load of the steaming brown stuff that comes out of the rear of a certain type of male animal!

 

John

Edited July 23, 2018 by JJGraphics

[MJI]

If we are having electric cars when are they going to erect the OHLE?

[Reorte]

You mean "a means to shift GHG emissions to the places the batteries are made*, thus making the pollution somebody else's problem"?

 

*more importantly, the places the Lithium is mined...

The latest one for electric cars, and which has merit, is not polluting in concentration where people are also concentrated, which seems worth doing even if the overall level was the same. It's just a pity that it gets tainted by the over-simplified one size fits all thinking which results in trying to push for electric cars everywhere, which is is both a harder problem and completely unnecessary, and thus might hold things back from where they are useful.

[Reorte]

Now in the meantime I have read various reports in main stream press and asked various experts via email one simple question "How much do smart meters cost to Run?", I've had no proper answers back other than a "small amount", "very small insignificant Amount" or common one "less than average Dumb Meter", but no one can tell us in mAamps per hour/Day/month.

 

Now I know that old meters use proportional amount per unit used,more electricity you use more the meter uses, it seems that smart meters use so much month whether you use a lot or a little or non at all.

Whatever "very insignificant" means it does seem a bit unlikely that it should add up to anything noticable. It also seems unlikely that a smart meter should use less than an ordinary meter under any circumstances; it's still got to do the same job, plus a bit extra. An old meter may be more inefficient but that's nothing to do with not being "smart".

[locomad]

One thing worries us about this complete lack of specific information, if I buy a small or any electrical device it tells us in mAamps or amps what it uses, take for example small transformers left on 24/7, it tells us what the max amps they use, now I know they are not at full output all the time but some do, I've plug in devices which can measure there consumption over a period of weeks some can significantly add to your electricity bill especially if you use loads of them at once.

 

No one can tell us how much electric smart meters use, I've been told some gas ones use the pressure of gas flowing to charge the battery and if some users don't use gas much say over the summer they tend to fail.

 

I'am just not satisfied with the " it's insignificant " reply so will continue to prevent them fitting a smart meter

[JJGraphics]

One thing worries us about this complete lack of specific information, if I buy a small or any electrical device it tells us in mAamps or amps what it uses, take for example small transformers left on 24/7, it tells us what the max amps they use, now I know they are not at full output all the time but some do, I've plug in devices which can measure there consumption over a period of weeks some can significantly add to your electricity bill especially if you use loads of them at once.

 

No one can tell us how much electric smart meters use, I've been told some gas ones use the pressure of gas flowing to charge the battery and if some users don't use gas much say over the summer they tend to fail.

 

I'am just not satisfied with the " it's insignificant " reply so will continue to prevent them fitting a smart meter

 

 

Absolutely agree.

 

I suspect that the reluctance to give a straight answer goes along with a few other things which we have yet to be told about or discover that are conveniently not being made public related to "smart meters" and their installation . . .

 

John

[Reorte]

I'am just not satisfied with the " it's insignificant " reply so will continue to prevent them fitting a smart meter

I'm sticking with not having one fitted because I fail to see any point (other than contrived ones just to try to pressure people) and given a choice between fancy, high-tech and "smart" or simple and does the job I'll always go for the latter if it does the job (I find the opposite rather ridiculous). And any attempts at being more "connected" and monitoring me rile me up - definitely the least information necessary there wins. Not because I'm paranoid about misuse, I just find it all unpleasant.

[30801]

No one can tell us how much electric smart meters use,

There must surely be some standard to which they are manufactured and that standard should cover what power they can draw.

[locomad]

There are standards but seems to us poor ones at that perhaps to much "EU" ones, it seems it will benefit supplies but not us.

 

I'am not against information on tap, just how it's supplied and implemented, about 10 years ago out of the blue, my electric supplier sent us a clamp meter powered by battery and a display meter for inside the house, I connected it up, clamp round main supply tail and it worked. At the time mentioned it on this site, yes it told us what was on which I knew about and the odd thing I left on which I didn't mainly outside lights. It also could be connected via ethernet wire to a computer and send reading to my supplier, unfortunately they changed there minds and decided it was not supported. The display failed about a year ago, but I still use the clamp via a multi meter. Can't say it saved us money, the display cost about £10 a year to run (connected by mains) and about £3 every couple if years for the battery. My outside lights replaced by let's really don't bother me if left on they hardly use anything now. My monthly usage is about 100 kW/hr, on average that's low, just like to get below as a challenge

[steve W]

How much smart meters use is likely to be less than the cost of a cup of tea per year but- does the consumer pay this? If the internal current measuring sensor connection is downstream of the operating circuit connection, then there is no identifiable cost to the consumer.

 

I note EU rules being questioned as a suspect for this sorry state of affairs. Unfortunately, it is closer to home and the EU is not the principle villian. The UK is the only EU country where the electricity retailer (who are mainly accountants and sales people)  rather than the distributor is responsible for the role out of these infernal things. The UK versions are more complicated than those used in most other places as the government of the day  (Dave & George) demanded greater amounts of data to be provided;  this is where the stories of variable tarrifs come from; changing cost based on the time of day and overall system demand - use your power at a low tarrif time, rather than peak, and the distributors don't need to so urgently to upgrade their sagging networks, the windmills off-shore don't get out of breath and the gov  can  crow about our green credentials.

Surveys into the concept and cost / benefit analysis have found that no EU country other than Spain was able to justify the wholesale roll out of SM. In the UK the gov will not publish these reports and is pressing ahead. The retailers are responsible for a high percentage completion by 2020 with penalties if they don't make it, hence the wholesale advertising  and in my opinion, false advertising. This is why there are various different and non-compatible non-upgradeable  meters out there that will have to be changed sooner rather than later. That is if the Mk2 design is finished and the spec hasn't changed to add even more data gathering.

 

As an aside, Spain is well on the way to completing it's change to smart meters. Consumers had no choice, but they do have to pay a small amount more. In many places the infrastruture is not good and it was common to have a tarrif that limited the amount of electricity that could be used at any one time. The old way of limiting was a special circuit breaker that tripped if your contracted allowance was exceeded. You could pay more and get a higher allowance if needed. Many folk took a low allowance then swapped out or bypassed the limiting circuit breaker. With smart meters the limiting device became integral with the meter and is not bypassable, so bills for these folk who need more are going up considerably.

 

Sorry, it's hot and it makes me tetchy.

[JJGraphics]

How much smart meters use is likely to be less than the cost of a cup of tea per year but- does the consumer pay this? If the internal current measuring sensor connection is downstream of the operating circuit connection, then there is no identifiable cost to the consumer.

 

I note EU rules being questioned as a suspect for this sorry state of affairs. Unfortunately, it is closer to home and the EU is not the principle villian. The UK is the only EU country where the electricity retailer (who are mainly accountants and sales people)  rather than the distributor is responsible for the role out of these infernal things. The UK versions are more complicated than those used in most other places as the government of the day  (Dave & George) demanded greater amounts of data to be provided;  this is where the stories of variable tarrifs come from; changing cost based on the time of day and overall system demand - use your power at a low tarrif time, rather than peak, and the distributors don't need to so urgently to upgrade their sagging networks, the windmills off-shore don't get out of breath and the gov  can  crow about our green credentials.

Surveys into the concept and cost / benefit analysis have found that no EU country other than Spain was able to justify the wholesale roll out of SM. In the UK the gov will not publish these reports and is pressing ahead. The retailers are responsible for a high percentage completion by 2020 with penalties if they don't make it, hence the wholesale advertising  and in my opinion, false advertising. This is why there are various different and non-compatible non-upgradeable  meters out there that will have to be changed sooner rather than later. That is if the Mk2 design is finished and the spec hasn't changed to add even more data gathering.

 

As an aside, Spain is well on the way to completing it's change to smart meters. Consumers had no choice, but they do have to pay a small amount more. In many places the infrastruture is not good and it was common to have a tarrif that limited the amount of electricity that could be used at any one time. The old way of limiting was a special circuit breaker that tripped if your contracted allowance was exceeded. You could pay more and get a higher allowance if needed. Many folk took a low allowance then swapped out or bypassed the limiting circuit breaker. With smart meters the limiting device became integral with the meter and is not bypassable, so bills for these folk who need more are going up considerably.

 

Sorry, it's hot and it makes me tetchy.

 

 

No need to apologise. I imagine a lot of people agree with what you said!

 

My friend who lives in France has just had one of their daft Linky meters forced on him and is not amused. A sort of "class action" seems to be in preparation in France against forced installation of these pieces of crap, which apparently have a high rate of failure and a record of overcharging. As in the UK, the supplier, in this case EDF will apparently benefit considerably from the use of these things and a lot of people in France are very angry about the costs involved.

 

John

[Butler Henderson]

I have an non smart meter electric consumption reading gizmo - one part clamped around the cable entering the old style meter and the other sat on the wndow cill above the sink - it hardly seems to work in terms of its dally chart so low is my electric use that occasionally a solitary dot may appear. It does give a read out of what is being consumed at any one moment - if the fridge/freezer is in standby and the consumption is above 0.04kW I know I have left something on that I did not mean to. I make great use of remote controlled sockets due to the electric sockets being hidden behind furniture etc and make sure plugs with built in transformers are only on when needed.

[melmerby]

Whatever "very insignificant" means it does seem a bit unlikely that it should add up to anything noticable. It also seems unlikely that a smart meter should use less than an ordinary meter under any circumstances; it's still got to do the same job, plus a bit extra. An old meter may be more inefficient but that's nothing to do with not being "smart".

Mechanical v Electronic.

Electronics will win easily on efficiency.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

How does a "Smart" water meter work?

 

I've got one (sort of!) the readings are taken without going near it as it has a wireless link to the reader but does not have a power source.

 

Keith

[jjb1970]

You mean "a means to shift GHG emissions to the places the batteries are made*, thus making the pollution somebody else's problem"?

 

*more importantly, the places the Lithium is mined...

Well, it certainly is a good job that we kept all our polluting heavy industry and don't import any oil, gas, chemicals etc. GHG emissions are a global problem, it's not the same as emissions of local pollutants.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

As an aside, Spain is well on the way to completing it's change to smart meters. Consumers had no choice, but they do have to pay a small amount more. In many places the infrastruture is not good and it was common to have a tarrif that limited the amount of electricity that could be used at any one time. The old way of limiting was a special circuit breaker that tripped if your contracted allowance was exceeded. You could pay more and get a higher allowance if needed. Many folk took a low allowance then swapped out or bypassed the limiting circuit breaker. With smart meters the limiting device became integral with the meter and is not bypassable, so bills for these folk who need more are going up considerably.

 

We still have potencia and can lose the supply if exceeded even with smart meters.

Be thankful the UK hasn't latched onto this big con, as potecia multiplies up your Kwh costs no matter how much you actually consume.

 

Mike.

[Bert Cheese]

I have an non smart meter electric consumption reading gizmo - one part clamped around the cable entering the old style meter and the other sat on the wndow cill above the sink - it hardly seems to work in terms of its dally chart so low is my electric use that occasionally a solitary dot may appear. It does give a read out of what is being consumed at any one moment - if the fridge/freezer is in standby and the consumption is above 0.04kW I know I have left something on that I did not mean to. I make great use of remote controlled sockets due to the electric sockets being hidden behind furniture etc and make sure plugs with built in transformers are only on when needed.

I have a similar device leftover from my days with British Gas...its main purpose is letting me know when the oven has reached temperature as the consumption gauge visibly falls back in the living room...

I have some doubts over its accuracy though as its saying I average around 5-6 Kw/h per day consumption...I imagine that should be at least 150 Kw/h per month then?

Er no...I take a reading every month and the last have been 129 and a couple of days ago 109 Kw/h...

The water meter I had installed has halved my bills based on the previous rateable value scheme, but I see little or no benefit in these leccy smart meters personally as I'm quite savvy at not wasting too much juice anyway.

[locomad]

Quite surprised quite a few of us have these little clamp meters, personally lot easier to install and cheaper too than smart meter, does almost the same job, mine was quite accurate within 20-40 kW/h per year.

 

Since found out wired to a multi meter they are good at measuring output from an car alternator as well as measurement of electrical equipment if clamped just round the live wire

[Nick C]

Well, it certainly is a good job that we kept all our polluting heavy industry and don't import any oil, gas, chemicals etc. GHG emissions are a global problem, it's not the same as emissions of local pollutants.

 

Which is why shifting the GHG emissions (and the local pollutants) elsewhere isn't the solution - we need to emit less here without increasing it elsewhere. 

 

The way to do that is to make, consume and dispose of less stuff, but that doesn't suit the mass-consumption society we have, and the obsession with constant growth. 

[spikey]

... The way to do that is to make, consume and dispose of less stuff, but that doesn't suit the mass-consumption society we have, and the obsession with constant growth.

Indeed. Cognitive dissonance rules OK.

[jjb1970]

Which is why shifting the GHG emissions (and the local pollutants) elsewhere isn't the solution - we need to emit less here without increasing it elsewhere.

 

The way to do that is to make, consume and dispose of less stuff, but that doesn't suit the mass-consumption society we have, and the obsession with constant growth.

I think everybody agrees that using less and disposing of less should be a no brained. However, whichever way you look at iy we still need access to energy and transport and to lower and hopefully eliminate GHG emissions as well as local emissions. I think EVs are an essential part of that process, we are seeing the same argument played out in shipping. That could be batteries, fuel cells or other techniques. Just now ammonia seems to be becoming trendy as a zero emission fuel.