Smart Meter = smart move?

[Ron Ron Ron]

I used to work for a major poultry firm before I retired,......

 

 

At least you retired and wasn't laid off.

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

They’re going to burn sheds as well??

 

 

'Fraid so - men's sheds are no longer safe havens

 

 

 

Blame the militant feminists.

 

They're trying to ban "Man Shedding" and the patriarchal dominance of shed dwelling. 

 

On the other hand, the LGBTQXRYZMNOPW³ community prefer a term to reflect the 4,856,800 different types of gender.

 

"Thing Shed" anyone?

 

 

 

 

Beats an Indian retreat...........Mahatma Coat.

 

 

.

[locomad]

Right down to neighbourhood level there has been an increase in wood burning, firstly the local pollution is worse especially on a damp low level cloud evening, then I notice more trees etc been cut, the small branches get shredded but the larger one disappear very quickly. Local paper Facebook is full of complaints about pollution, it's fine maybe in countryside but urban areas?

Right down to neighbourhood level there has been an increase in wood burning, firstly the local pollution is worse especially on a damp low level cloud evening, then I notice more trees etc been cut, the small branches get shredded but the larger one disappear very quickly. Local paper Facebook is full of complaints about pollution, it's fine maybe in countryside but urban areas?

[Ron Ron Ron]

The pressure and propaganda to get people to switch to "Smart Meters", is now becoming overwhelming.

 

Despite the Parliamentary Select Committee report raising serious issues about them, there's a torrent of TV and newspaper adverts pushing people towards Smart Meters.

Every few days we get a card or letter through the door, telling us the Smart Meter installers are in the area etc, etc,......

How much is this all costing?

We know who'll be picking up the tab though.

 

 

Ron

[jjb1970]

I know this is a big generalisation and not always correct, but my experience is that genuinely good products and ideas don't need a mountain of government propaganda and hard sell pressure from suppliers to persuade people of their merit. OK in the initial stage you need to raise awareness but if after several years of pressure people still cannot see the point of something then there may be a very good reason for that.

 

Even when I worked in the electricity sector these things were controversial. There are good arguments for them from an industry perspective (easing demand management) but from a consumer perspective much less so. And the implementation has been abysmal. However I suppose that is to be expected given the government obsession to roll the things out.

[steve W]

I know this is a big generalisation and not always correct, but my experience is that genuinely good products and ideas don't need a mountain of government propaganda and hard sell pressure from suppliers to persuade people of their merit. OK in the initial stage you need to raise awareness but if after several years of pressure people still cannot see the point of something then there may be a very good reason for that.

Just about sums it up!

I have similar slightly cynical opinions about almost all products that the makers describe in exagerated terms, it usually means they know there's an inherrent problem an try and disguise it with jargon.

Take the railway ticket machines as an example, once called 'Quick fare' machines - they still won't let you buy two railcard discounted tickets together without going through the complete process start to finish twice and as for the printing time......

[Enterprisingwestern]

I know this is a big generalisation and not always correct, but my experience is that genuinely good products and ideas don't need a mountain of government propaganda and hard sell pressure from suppliers to persuade people of their merit. OK in the initial stage you need to raise awareness but if after several years of pressure people still cannot see the point of something then there may be a very good reason for that.

 

Even when I worked in the electricity sector these things were controversial. There are good arguments for them from an industry perspective (easing demand management) but from a consumer perspective much less so. And the implementation has been abysmal. However I suppose that is to be expected given the government obsession to roll the things out.

 

There is a rather large flaw in current smart meter advertising.

All you are being told is that they will save you shed loads of money, nobody is explaining how or justifying their claims, which I thought was against advertising regulations?

 

Mike.

[Reorte]

I know this is a big generalisation and not always correct, but my experience is that genuinely good products and ideas don't need a mountain of government propaganda and hard sell pressure from suppliers to persuade people of their merit. OK in the initial stage you need to raise awareness but if after several years of pressure people still cannot see the point of something then there may be a very good reason for that.

 

Even when I worked in the electricity sector these things were controversial. There are good arguments for them from an industry perspective (easing demand management) but from a consumer perspective much less so. And the implementation has been abysmal. However I suppose that is to be expected given the government obsession to roll the things out.

Interesting to hear that. Now clearly I've not been persuaded by them but then I tend to roll my eyes at a great deal of things that most others leap on and say are great.

 

How do they ease demand management for the industry? There's scepticism about their ability to persuade people to time shift (partially due to overestimation of just how much realistically can be it seems), and as for knowing exactly what the demand is then presumably it would be more useful to know at the substation level anyway, rather than individual houses, and would be far quicker and cheaper to put in equipment to do that (I'd be surprised if it's not already there).

[bike2steam]

We had a 'smart' meter put in at the beginning of the year for the lecy, carried on using it the same as usual, had our first 6 monthly bill in and there's a 30% increase !! Cheaper ????  **llocks !! (All our heating, and cooking is gas)

Edited August 8, 2018 by bike2steam

[chris p bacon]

, the vendors telling us that they had a smart meter fitted and their bills went UP significantly. They unplug the "smart meter"  now and the bills are now back to their normal levels before the meter was fitted. AND they showed us the bills to prove their point.

 

 

You can't 'Unplug the smart meter' you can only unplug the display, if they've got a display they've got a smart meter as the 2 'talk' to each other.

 

Unplugging or disabling a meter* is a criminal offence.

 

*not the display.

[Free At Last]

I remember back in the '60s working on some tenement flats and the meters in each flat were plugged in to a two pin socket which was the mains supply (yes it could be plugged in L+N reversed) and some of the occupiers had left their two way adaptors in them when they vacated the property. It must have been the free phase.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Free At Last

[30801]

This is quite interesting. Energy storage and demand shifting using water. Much cheaper than batteries.

 

[JJGraphics]

We had a 'smart' meter put in at the beginning of the year for the lecy, carried on using it the same as usual, had our first 6 monthly bill in and there's a 30% increase !! Cheaper ????  **llocks !! (All our heating, and cooking is gas)

 

 

There have been a number of reports of this happening, especially if using LED bulbs.

 

John

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello John

 

There have been a number of reports of this happening, especially if using LED bulbs.

 

John

 

I wonder whether the old meter was  mechanical and was under registering

 

Ray

[BernardTPM]

In what way is electricity used by LEDs different to that used by other electrical applicances?

[JJGraphics]

Hello John

 

 

I wonder whether the old meter was  mechanical and was under registering

 

Ray

 

 

 

This from last year:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/06/smart-energy-meters-giving-readings-seven-times-high-study-finds/

 

http://luxreview.com/article/2017/03/smart-meters-give-inaccurate-led-readings

 

More recent:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4288180/Smart-meters-readings-SEVEN-times-high.html

 

John

[30801]

In what way is electricity used by LEDs different to that used by other electrical applicances?

 

Power factor.

 

This is a quick grab from google

 

http://www.timeguard.com/news/editorials/the-power-factor-of-led

 

In any case smart & dumb meters really should measure the same regardless.

[Reorte]

Power factor.

 

This is a quick grab from google

 

http://www.timeguard.com/news/editorials/the-power-factor-of-led

 

In any case smart & dumb meters really should measure the same regardless.

That just seems to boil down to loss in the electronics as well as the LEDs themselves, can't see how that would affect the meter, although it does make it sound like bulb manufacturers aren't quoting the power of the entire light bulb but just the actual LEDs, which is misleading enough that I'm surprised it's allowed.

[Silver Sidelines]

Thank you John

 

I stand by what I said earlier.  My Mother had her +25 year old mechanical meter replaced by a digital meter and her electricity consumption jumped by 25%.

 

If you look back up this thread other people have reported similar.

 

This from last year:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/06/smart-energy-meters-giving-readings-seven-times-high-study-finds/

 

http://luxreview.com/article/2017/03/smart-meters-give-inaccurate-led-readings

 

More recent:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4288180/Smart-meters-readings-SEVEN-times-high.html

 

John

 

As to electricity consumption by LEDs I am puzzled as to how you can get so much more light for apparently less electrical energy.  However I do note that incandescent light bulbs and electric motors are regarded as inductive loads with a positive power factor whilst LEDS are classed as a capacitive load with a negative power factor.  I cannot find a reference but I have in my mind that a conventional electricity meter is designed to to read consumption where the power factor is around zero, but with lots of LEDS and a large negative power factor the conventional meter will under register - suggesting that LEDs are more efficient than they really are.  I can only think that Smart Meters are measuring total electric power rather than simply kWhr.

 

Ray

Edited August 9, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[E3109]

Right down to neighbourhood level there has been an increase in wood burning, firstly the local pollution is worse especially on a damp low level cloud evening, then I notice more trees etc been cut, the small branches get shredded but the larger one disappear very quickly. Local paper Facebook is full of complaints about pollution, it's fine maybe in countryside but urban areas?Right down to neighbourhood level there has been an increase in wood burning, firstly the local pollution is worse especially on a damp low level cloud evening, then I notice more trees etc been cut, the small branches get shredded but the larger one disappear very quickly. Local paper Facebook is full of complaints about pollution, it's fine maybe in countryside but urban areas?

I'm all for woodburning, it's there so why not. If you're in a rural area then it's abundant and if you're in an urban area then it's still abundant via skips etc.

It's only gonna end up in landfill anyway,

 

For those who think that carbon ought to be 'banned ' I ask you this.

 

1. How can you 'ban' an element of the Periodic Table

2. All the providers of fizzy drinks etc have been crying about the lack of CO2

3. As a carbon-based life form yourself, perhaps you ought to put your money where your mouth is and either a) stop breeding and/or b) top yourself on principle!

The worst kind of 'anti-carbon' nutters tend to have like 6 kids, but claim the moral high ground cos they don't have a car.

[BernardTPM]

As to electricity consumption by LEDs I am puzzled as to how you can get so much more light for apparently less electrical energy.

Incandescent lights produce a lot of heat as well as light, so there's some of the saving: LEDs run much cooler. A greater percentage of the power is turned into light instead of heat.

Edited August 9, 2018 by BernardTPM

[E3109]

True Bernard but in climates such as ours, the slight "waste" heat gain given off by incandescent globes should, in theory at least, delay the heating thermostat kicking in by a minute or so thus no theoretical loss or gain.

[duncan]

The large halogen lights we had in the warehouse (500W) gave out a lot of heat, from the bulb & the control gear.  The gear was estimated to consume about 10% of the power.  Replaced with 120W LEDs which give much more light & are cheaper to run.  With hindsight, we could have probably gone for 90W, but we frankly didn't believe the vastly greater light emitted from the LEDs. 

 

The power saved in less than 5 years has paid for the capital insallation of the lights.  Also, no failed lights in that time, so a saving in the cost of bulbs & staff time to get the forklift rigged with the basket & change bulb (used to be at least 1 a week).  NB Will need to check if we still have the basket !

 

Edit - yes, we have had to buy thicker jackets for the warehouse staff !!

Edited August 10, 2018 by duncan

[royaloak]

The large halogen lights we had in the warehouse (500W) gave out a lot of heat, from the bulb & the control gear.  The gear was estimated to consume about 10% of the power.  Replaced with 120W LEDs which give much more light & are cheaper to run.  With hindsight, we could have probably gone for 90W, but we frankly didn't believe the vastly greater light emitted from the LEDs.

I have done the same trick, put a new light in the dining room with  bulbs in it and after poor results with our previous LEDs I went for quite high lumen (806 lumen/8.2W), the end result is I have had to unscrew 3 of them because having all five lit was like a torture chamber it was that bright.

 

LED bulbs have come a long way since the early days

[Reorte]

True Bernard but in climates such as ours, the slight "waste" heat gain given off by incandescent globes should, in theory at least, delay the heating thermostat kicking in by a minute or so thus no theoretical loss or gain.

Most lights are up near the ceiling and hot air rises, so it doesn't help so much there. and is just a complete waste when you don't need the heating on anyway.