Jonathan's Modern Image Workbench (3D-printed class 323 EMU, class 156s, 3-car 144s, a 141, 4-car class 465s)

[JDW]

Back to the 1990s and 2000s for a couple more 156 pics, the finished Provincial and Strathclyde units. Lima models with underframes fitted with 3D-printed parts plus Hornby snowploughs and BSI couplings and painted black followed by a couple of coats of 'track dirt' colour.

 

 

[JDW]

No progress on anything of late, due to travelling for work and lack of time. But I did do something... Since I only have a dozen or so projects ongoing or planned, I did the sensible thing and bought some parts towards another. 

 

 

...because what else would you build after a pair of class 323s than a 365 when you model a station served by DMUs in Yorkshire? I have these two shells and one shell+chassis, all three of which have seating and glazing. And today a cheap but damaged unit arrived in the post. Boxed, bodies and chassis fine but bogies all damaged (I do wonder how some people treat their models at times!). Not a huge problem, I knew that before I bought it, and it gives me another pair of shells/chassis. I might see if the motor runs but its not a priority. I doubt it. The underside of the floor above the motor is filthy, as are the wheel treads, so its obviously been well used! I'll still need one 'good' set, but should have enough parts to make up two inner coaches with plenty of bits left over. 

 

The sharp ones among you are probably thinking "you could use the spare cabs as the start of a 325 too". That thought had already occurred to me. Come back in a decade or so... 

[JDW]

It's been a while since I posted, the 465 parts have gone onto my 'I'll get to it one day' pile and some layout bits have arrived so I've started building the new station.

 

The platforms have to fit around part of the loft woodwork which has made for a few awkward angles but the hard bit is done, they just need to grow in length now.

 

 

 

Nothing is stuck down as yet, the bus station might end up slightly higher with a ramp to the platforms. A station building might go in at the back somewhere around the centre of the Strathclyde 156, I don't know yet. 

 

I had the idea of a brick overall roof structure, such as at Malton (athough I know that's a through station) or as seen years ago on a layout that inspired me but I can't remember the name of right now! So I ordered a Metcalfe engine shed wondering if it could be made into something suitable. My plan was to place it at the centre of the platforms as if it had at one time been a through station. Unfortunately it isn't wide enough to span both tracks and platforms. 

 

So now I'm wondering about having it to the end of the front platform, as if it might once have been a goods shed but has been repurposed as was done at one station (Mansfield?) on the Robin Hood line. Not sure about it though yet: 

 

 

 

The windows on the far side could be opened up as archways, those on the front possibly left unglazed to give a good view inside. Seems a little more interesting than just a row of buffer stops and doesn't obstruct too much the view of trains as only the front half coach would be inside/behind (the 156 is pretty much right up to the buffers inside it)

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by JDW
typo

[JDW]

After some slicing of parts, the plan seems to be coming together and I think I like it. It fills what would otherwise be a fairly flat space. I think it will give a nice 'end' to the layout.

 

 

 

Very handy that the platform lines up with the bottom of the windows, made cutting easy. I think I will fit windows to the end, not sure about the side yet.

[JDW]

Steady progress at sticking stuff together, weighting it down and waiting for it to dry, both ends and one side assembled. I decided to change the windows to blue, which fits the blue shelters, footbridge and other furniture in SYPTE colours. I carefully ran over the printed white windows with a blue marker. A brick finish might have been better than grey stone considering the supposed area but I prefer the stone. 

 

The windows look a bit bright under the harsh light on my desk but once the roof is on and it is installed it should look ok. I hope so anyway as that's the darkers blue marker pen I have!

 

[ISW]

12 hours ago, JDW said:

I decided to change the windows to blue, which fits the blue shelters, footbridge and other furniture in SYPTE colours.

 

In Sheffield the bus shelters were painted (?) a drab sort of green colour while SYPTE was in existence, as shown in this photo from ~1981:

 

Ian

[JDW]

2 hours ago, ISW said:

 

In Sheffield the bus shelters were painted (?) a drab sort of green colour while SYPTE was in existence, as shown in this photo from ~1981:

 

Ian

 

That's a nice pic Ian, I'm not old enough to remember them like that though! Interesting to see, do feel free to post any others you have!

 

It's the 1990s/2000s era blue and yellow scheme I'm going for, which works for things from Sprinter and Regional Railways stuff and is still current in many places now to fit alongside early privatisation and Northern stock, as well as buses in liveries like Yorkshire Traction's white with blue and red lower stripes and FirstGroup's original willow leaf, up to more modern stuff.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by JDW

[ISW]

1 hour ago, JDW said:

Interesting to see, do feel free to post any others you have!

 

Message sent ...

 

Ian

[Derekstuart]

Hello JDW. An excellent thread, most informative.

 

I'm sorry if this has been stated and I've missed it, but what is the origin of the 3D printed parts for the 156, please? Is it commercial or is this a mate of yours helping out? If so, I could do with mates like that.

 

As for the 142. I was sitting looking at one trying to work out what is so fundamentally wrong about it and then I saw your comment and looked back. You're right. It doesn't matter what livery is reviewed, Hornby's mass yellow front just doesn't look right when it curves around that far. I've also found slightly smaller wheels helps its looks.

 

It's not that I'm anti Realtrack- their 156 looks really good- it's just that I'm not sure I have anywhere large enough to store Charlie's easy going and cheerful attitude that comes with it.

 

Thanks for sharing your tips and ideas.

Derek

[JDW]

Hi @Derekstuart, thanks for the positive comments. 

 

The 3d-printed 156 parts are from a very nice chap called Daryl over on the DEMU forum, you have to be a member there to see the forum. I fortuitously just got around to joining this year as he happened to be posting about the parts he was designing. Not overly expensive either (I won't post here lest he wants to change the price, I don't want complaints!) and very easy to do especially if you have a Dremel and cutting disc to remove that part of the underframe. 

 

As for the 142, it was of course designed  at a time when the only liveries were Provincial, GMPTE and 'skipper', so the yellow end was right for those (even if an awful shade!), and then once Regional Railways came in, Hornby either didn't have the ability or didn't want to have to paint the sides of those parts to match. Thankfully that's changed with the later releases, I'd guess coinciding with production shifting to China. It does make a huge difference though, along with correcting the doors and painting in the stripes around the door wells. 

 

I've never measured but I suspect the body height isn't too far off but the wheels make it too high. It's one of those jobs I ought to do but it's not just a quick wheel swap so I've never got around to it. Plus as it is, it sits at the same height as my DCKits 144 so they look 'right' together. But both look wrong next to a Realtrack 144.

 

I think with some detailing the Hornby 156 (or Lima with Hornby motor) is a perfectly adequate model. The Realtrack one is fantastic but both too expensive to replace all of mine and would make the rest of my stock look dated. Consistency is as important as perfection I think.

[Derekstuart]

Thanks JDW.
 

I like the Lima 156. Don't get me wrong, the Realtrack version is very good indeed, but in my opinion has two problems.

 

a) the marker lights. Whilst these could in themselves be overlooked, the designer has built these up as the paragon of perfection (fair enough) whilst really being quite rude and dismissive over other models (not fair). Painted patches to represent lights- at £250 each? Hmm... Even a non-functioning hole would have been better.

 

b) the rivets. They're everywhere. The first thing I noticed when I saw one was 'the rivets'. When I look at the real thing, my first thought is 'smooth bodywork.' The rivets (Avdelock style) are not as obvious as those of yesteryear.

 

I have a (re-wheeled) 142 in RR. I am going to try the same techniques as you, also replacing the moulded hand rails. I also have a low-slung replacement motor/drive so I wonder whether it's possible to replace some of the missing chassis detail in the same way as you did with the 156.

 

Thanks again for a lot of useful tips and inspiration.

Derek

[cheesysmith]

On 25/10/2020 at 10:25, ISW said:

 

In Sheffield the bus shelters were painted (?) a drab sort of green colour while SYPTE was in existence, as shown in this photo from ~1981:

 

Ian

Nice photo, and now history has the council have finally got their way and shut Leopold st to traffic and are intending to pedestrianised the road under the excuse of covid.

[cheesysmith]

Quick bit of info on wheel sizes, these are the sizes for new, last turning and scrap

142-840/789/776

 

156/153/150-800/747/734

 

So the wheels used on the Hornby models are too big. Don't know about the realtack 156 as I don't have one, the armour plate around the cab window put me off them.

Edited October 26, 2020 by cheesysmith
Spelling

[Derekstuart]

3 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

Don't know about the realtack 156 as I don't have one, the armour plate around the cab window put me off them.

 

Armour plate? Do you mean all those rivets? They're all over the 156. The real 156 used Advelok (or similar) and they are really quite smooth and flat, barely noticeable. I have to say that was the issue that put me off the RT156- that and the painted on marker light. It's not unreasonable that the marker light doesn't work- but to represent it as a painted rectangle rather than the aperture? Hmm. No thanks.

[Wagonmaster]

Very interesting thread, only just picked it up looking for Class 323's. I've bought the bodies so far and will be doing the original Regional Railways/Centro livery.

 

I too noticed bowing/warping at the open ends of the bodies. I have put an internal braces inside the body to try and keep everything straight. I had to do the same with his 313's. I think these are UV Resin castings made from a 3D printed master? If so, then it would be d8fficult to include cross braces, as you wouldn't get the body out of the mould!

 

You were asking about Pantograph and the well. They use the Brecknell Willis panto. Bachmann and Hornby are available. Hurst also do them and so does MGR Hooper on this site. As far as well details are concerned, did you see the other 323 thread?

 

I've copied a series of photos that Jim Smith-Wright of P4 New Street fame had posted and put them below for you (don't know how to quote or link to them!).

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Wagpnmaster
Typo

[JackB95]

Nice to see a few others are tackling the 323 kit. I've got the bodies waiting in the box upstairs. I too am wondering what to do chassis wise. Thinking of going down the custom chassis route of plasticard/brass parts, and then use something like a couple of 153 motor bogies to get the thing powered? Who knows...

 

Interesting to see that you've made a few mods regarding the height of things. I've not had much chance to have a look at the model, but shall keep my eyes peeled when I come round to it.

 

Keep up the fantastic work. I'll be doing mine in the Northern house colours as per when I signed them as a guard.

[Wagonmaster]

2 hours ago, JackB95 said:

Nice to see a few others are tackling the 323 kit. I've got the bodies waiting in the box upstairs. I too am wondering what to do chassis wise. Thinking of going down the custom chassis route of plasticard/brass parts, and then use something like a couple of 153 motor bogies to get the thing powered? Who knows...

 

Interesting to see that you've made a few mods regarding the height of things. I've not had much chance to have a look at the model, but shall keep my eyes peeled when I come round to it.

 

Keep up the fantastic work. I'll be doing mine in the Northern house colours as per when I signed them as a guard.

 

I had thought about motorisation and thought I'd use a similar system I used on my Class 303. 

 

I thought I'd use a laminated plasticard chassis, to minimise warping and a High Level Kits LoRider motor bogie. The LoRider is available in different gear ratios, can be built with compensation and as the name implies, is of a low profile and doesn't intrude in the car body too much. It certainly runs very smoothly in my 303 and manages the three cars easily enough. I know the 323 is heavier, but I'm sure it will be fine. This is assuming a 323 has an 8'6" wheelbase of course.

[JDW]

Thats some useful photos there, thanks. 

 

I'm holding out to see whether he releases a chassis and bogie parts as well as (or as part of) the underframe bits. I'm im no rush to get them finished so can wait a while yet.

 

Definitely looks like it was worth the work in tweaking the door height, I'm convinced that otherwise the relationship of the livery to the front end will be wrong. For now though, I've turned back to trying to make progress on the layout so not done much rolling stock-wise of late. 

[Wagonmaster]

If it's like his 313 kit, it will be a resin floor, bogie sideframes and underframe equipment. You may have to supply your own motor bogie, non driven bogies and wheels.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Great thread!

Good to see modern image making a breakthrough.

[richierich]

I’ve always thought the Lima Class 156 bodyshell captured the prototypes lines really well.  But it’s let down by the underframe detail (or lack of it!).  So very interested to read about the 3D printed underframe detail. 
 

On your 156s have you retained the Lima Motor bogie or changed these for other more refined? 

[JDW]

Hi @richierich

They are a mix. The Strathclyde, RRNW, RR Central and Northern Spirit ones still have Lima motors and run well enough. The various Northern ones are later Hornby versions and so use the much better Hornby motor bogie which I find to be a great runner. The 4-car Provincial set has a replacement from Strathpeffer Junction although it doesn't run as well as I'd expected. I re-used the same decoder, I think I need to tweak the settings a little to smooth it out. I Installed it a good while ago, and keep meaning to get around to it, but it needs new traction tyres so I decided to wait til I'd fitted those - and never get round to ordering any! Should be fine once sorted though.

[JDW]

After a bit of a gap, a few things have happened. The station area has seen some more work, though still has a long way to go. At least the key elements - the platforms and former goods shed - are in place now. I've spent a while putting together some more palisade fencing, but yet more is needed. Some more bits and bobs arrived from 3dprintingcorner.co.uk on Ebay, some of which have been painted and put in place, namely bollards and benches. Some post-mounted lineside phones were also in the order, along with ground shunting signals. They are all quite nice prints, I just need to work out where the shunting signals should go! They will be non-working, as are all the signals on the layout. Any thoughts appreciated: 

 

 

After quite a bit of scenic stuff, I felt like doing a bit more rolling stock, and did a bit more work on the 323. Unless we get any decent days for priming I'll probably not do much more until the weather improves again, but sorted the over-long strengthening plates under the doors. The centre coach is actually correct, just the driving cars needed a few millimetres filing off above the bogie. Before (using a bogie from a Class 466 as its what I had handy)

: 

 

And after: 

 

 

The inner ends were done too, but the centre car is fine. The bogie centre should be pretty much in line with the centre of the window above on all three vehicles. 

 

 

I also experimented with a section of floor from a class 156 chassis which fits nicely when trimmed down, and might be an easy way of mounting bogies, depending what type I end up using: 

 

[JDW]

I meant to add them to the post above, a couple of pics of the 3d-printed bits and bobs:

 

 

And the benches after painting and plonking in place for a picture:

 

 

 

As usual, terrible quality camera phone pics, sorry! I also dug the parts for the 365 out while I was in an EMU mood and decided to have a play. I started off by cleaning up the wheels and (damaged) bogies from the full set I picked up cheap. It looked like it had been oiled with a grease gun and never had the wheels cleaned. I doubt I'll use them but at least they aren't filthy now.

 

After that, I started on the body shells. I accumulated five, so the first cut and shut was obvious. As others have done, simply slice down the door joint, and stick the inner end of one to the long section from the second:

 

 

Rather than buy yet another shell to do a cut and shut for the fourth coach, I decided to use the remains of the first pair I cut up along with the fifth bodyshell to pruduce the final vehicle. This time, I cut down the outer edge of the door at the cab end.

 

Using the other coach as a guide, I measured a two and a half window section from the centre of the previously cut up body, again cutting doen the edge of the door: 

 

 

After filing and sanding to as close to a perfect fit as my skills allow, the two parts were joined. I'll leave them to set overnight before I move to the next stage, which will be to fit a plasticard end and insert the window frame. At the opposite end of the same coach, I cut out the two unneeded window pillars in the toilet area, and replaced them with one from a scrap section, using the windows as a guide to make sure it was in the right spot: 

 

 

I've still no idea what I'll do for a chassis, I only have three, so might try and find someone to do a  resin cast of one and  produce four resin chassis, and then cut those up to produce the pair of centre car chassis. Plenty of time to think about that yet though! I'll also have to fit a pantograph well too at some point, once I work out where it goes!

Edited November 28, 2020 by JDW

[JDW]

And following on from yesterday, a bit more progress. End now fitted, along with window frames. I could have used plasticard and added a fillet for the rounded corners but since I had spare scrap sections just cut some frames out from one of those. I used the ones next to the cab to get a thicker pillar, then just filed til they fitted, using a piece of glazing as a guide. I'm not sure whether to leave the end flat or cut out a recess for a gangway. I only have two Hornby rubber ones so won't be using those, so the big square hole isn't needed. 

 

 

 

...of course if I'd been paying full attention, I'd have realised the 365s don't have the small end window at inner ends, just the two large ones... 465s do. So now the question, do I fill the windows or make it a 465 instead?!  I think I'll stick with a 365, 12 small blanks should be easy enough to make and fit. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by JDW