Jonathan's Modern Image Workbench (3D-printed class 323 EMU, class 156s, 3-car 144s, a 141, 4-car class 465s)

[JDW]

...I also got around to fitting a couple of sets of replacement wheels to some Lima 156s, obtained from Peter's Spares following a recommendation on another thread. The wheels look great, very fine, and no traction tyres. But unfortunately that's where the fun stopped. I popped a set in one unit, and although it moved, it was very stiff, wouldn't move at low power and when it did, it was with a very high current draw. The back-to-back measurement appears too tight by maybe as much as 0.5mm, meaning that the wheel backs are very tight against the inside frame of the bogie. I've tried pulling them out on the axle but the fit is too tight to move them. I've tried a light skim of the boss on the plastic bogie frame with a file, but it wasn't enough and I don't want to do more and introduce slop when I refit the Lima wheels. All 8 axles are the same. The matching wheels for the unpowered bogie seem the same. Has anyone else had this problem? I'll send them an email and see what they say. 

[dmu 156]

The so called 'snowploughs' that are fitted to 150s, 153s, 156s are not snowploughs as they aren't low enough,  they are called obstacle deflectors which are supposed to stop things like shopping trolleys and bicycles etc that are deliberately left on tracks by idiots from going under the units and causing damage. As a train driver I've heard them called snowploughs many times so I'm taking this opportunity to explain what they are.

[JDW]

Following on from yesterday's post, I managed to pull the wheels out to around 14.5mm which seems to have sorted the problem, and the units run fine again. I've ordered a few more sets so that all bar one of my 156 sets will either have the Hornby motor, or replacement wheels. 

 

Whilst testing things in the loft I couldn't resist posing the 141 alongside a 3-car 144 and a 155. Don't get too excited though, look closely and it's just the shells sat on supports!

 

 

[Ragtag]

That 141 has come out great, are you still leaning towards a Realtrack chassis?

 

[JDW]

Yes, I'd rather have something that runs well than just stick it on a Hornby chassis because it's cheaper (but with the price of them on eBay, not that much cheaper!). I'm keeping my eye out, though have managed to acquire a single 144 car sold for spares and repairs, and have almost a full chassis left from my second centre car build which used a Realtrack unit, so might be able to bodge something together.

[Wagonmaster]

They're looking great and I'm glad you managed to sort out the wheel problem.

 

The Realtrack chassis is a good way to go, but a Hornby or scratchbuilt chassis can work well. I have a Bristol Railbus and Class 140 running on scratchbuilt chassis using the High Level Kits Pacer motorising unit. These work very well and are nice and smooth, especially at low speed. They do come in various gear ratios too. It is what I'm going to use in my Class 141. Certainly worth serious thought if you get stuck.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Wagonmaster

[JDW]

3 hours ago, Wagonmaster said:

They're looking great and I'm glad you managed to sort out the wheel problem.

 

The Realtrack chassis is a good way to go, but a Hornby or scratchbuilt chassis can work well. I have a Bristol Railbus and Class 140 running on scratchbuilt chassis using the High Level Kits Pacer motorising unit. These work very well and are nice and smooth, especially at low speed. They do come in various gear ratios too. It is what I'm going to use in my Class 141. Certainly worth serious thought if you get stuck.

 

If I were stuck I'd use a Hornby one. I have three and all run fine, though would really benefit from smaller wheels to lower the ride height a little. 

 

My ability to cut things square and straight is sadly much too poor to even think about trying to build a chassis myself. I'm sure it would be do-able, but experience has taught me that getting things accurate is not a skill I posess...

[OliversTrains]

On 20/05/2020 at 22:42, JDW said:

 

True, I hadn't thought of that! Barnsley's footbridge was the only means of crossing last time I was there as the level crossing and the area above it was being rebuilt (pedestrianised?) so the crossing was/is closed to road traffic.

 

 

Thanks Jack, I was looking at the gears themselves, if it's a worn gear axle that might be the cause. I'll add it to my list of things to check. It's an odd one, I certainly can't see any split gears at least from what is visible from the outsides, but was struggling to think what else might cause a stiff spot or brief lock-up. Thanks for your thoughts. 

 

I realised today while I was looking at it what was bothering me about the bridge, what didn't quite look right - that the bridge really needs a set of handrails. Hopefully I have some thin wire or plastic section somewhere. I did wonder about 'boarding up' the latticework with solid panels either just on top or all of it, to give it a 'modernised' look. That's a job for another day though.

The level crossing at Barnsley has been fully removed. I don't believe its coming back. What I hope is coming back around there is double track for the Penistone line, which is my local line.

[bradfordbuffer]

On 06/06/2021 at 18:07, JDW said:

Following on from yesterday's post, I managed to pull the wheels out to around 14.5mm which seems to have sorted the problem, and the units run fine again. I've ordered a few more sets so that all bar one of my 156 sets will either have the Hornby motor, or replacement wheels. 

 

Whilst testing things in the loft I couldn't resist posing the 141 alongside a 3-car 144 and a 155. Don't get too excited though, look closely and it's just the shells sat on supports!

 

 

Just catching up on thread ....cracking slice of West Yorkshire 

[cheesysmith]

WEST??????

 

This is obviously based on the greater south yorkshire, not that london centric excuse for a city called leeds. All the speeding up of the ECML did was allow those soft southerners to invade the proud yorkshire city and turn it soft. It doesn`t even have a good ruby team anymore lol.

 

Said in jest as a proud yorkshire man protecting the southern boarder from the yokels from derbyshire (sheffield born, sheffield bread, strong in arms, thick in head).

[bradfordbuffer]

2 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

WEST??????

 

This is obviously based on the greater south yorkshire, not that london centric excuse for a city called leeds. All the speeding up of the ECML did was allow those soft southerners to invade the proud yorkshire city and turn it soft. It doesn`t even have a good ruby team anymore lol.

 

Said in jest as a proud yorkshire man protecting the southern boarder from the yokels from derbyshire (sheffield born, sheffield bread, strong in arms, thick in head).

Sorry......greater Yorkshire!....says a illegal alien.....(refugee from Liverpool)....been hear for nearly 30 years so make believe Yorkshire man....proud to be tight!

[JDW]

Not a lot has happened recently, but there has been a bit of progress on a few projects, including the 465s, for which the four centre car bodies are pretty much complete after a few rounds of filler and primer, as are two of the chassis.

 

I've ordered some Southern Pride bogie frames, enough for the 465s and 323s, and will source suitable sideframes for each. I was planning to use the 3d printed replacement bogie frames available on Ebay for the Hornby 466 but without a supply of the wheels or centre metal insert, they're no good. Fine for replacing damaged frames on existing models but no good to me. 

 

The shells for the first 323 are almost complete but after another round of heating and straightening, more cracks so will have to sort that next. For anyone building one, I strongly recommend supergluing a strip of plastic inside along the full length below the windows. 

(with apologies for the low quality phone snap)

 

A pair of cheap 156 shells has also been stripped and undercoated, ready for a coat of plain unbranded FirstGroup blue with white doors. The Northern lilac one has seen some progress with a more accurate shade of lilac but the finish from the aerosol wasn't great. I'll see how it is once it's dry.

 

 

 

 

 

[JDW]

Another quick shot of the lilac 156...

 

The shade looks much better than the first attempt wgich was too pink. I think Hornby's version on the white unit is much too purple, I might consider re-doing that stripe in the same shade. 

[Wagonmaster]

Good to see some progress. Did you ever sort out any etched window frames for the Class 323's? Guess the same goes for bogie sideframes and underframe detail.

 

Mine are still lurking behind other projects, must get on with them!

[JDW]

Not yet. I hoped he might get around to producing them but no sign as yet. To be fair, nor have I asked, as I'd not made any progress on it. I'll probably at least try and get it on bogies and painted, and then worry about how to sort the windows (frames and glazing) and underframe equipment. I'll probably go for dark-ish glazing material to hide the lack of interior, though I will probably make up a few basic internal partitions between cab and saloon, and around the doors. 

[JDW]

No pictures just yet but a little more progress on the 323s thanks to the arrival from Southern Pride of some sets of bogie frames and some sideframes from the same seller as the 323. They're not quite right for a 323 I don't think, I need to have a closer look, but are close enough - and of course its a unit, not a loco, so how many people will spot the difference anyway!

 

I've sliced the end of the Southern Pride frames, then had to thin down the cosmetic sideframes a lot (a couple of mm) before drilling holes to accommodate the bearing pockets on the SP frames. I've trialled one so far, and it seems OK and looks right enough.

 

Hopefully good weather will allow me to do some more painting on the 156s too.  

[Towbridge Junction]

Just discovered this thread, looks like there's some fantastic work here. Look forward to seeing more 👍

[Wagonmaster]

7 hours ago, JDW said:

No pictures just yet but a little more progress on the 323s thanks to the arrival from Southern Pride of some sets of bogie frames and some sideframes from the same seller as the 323. They're not quite right for a 323 I don't think, I need to have a closer look, but are close enough - and of course its a unit, not a loco, so how many people will spot the difference anyway!

 

I've sliced the end of the Southern Pride frames, then had to thin down the cosmetic sideframes a lot (a couple of mm) before drilling holes to accommodate the bearing pockets on the SP frames. I've trialled one so far, and it seems OK and looks right enough.

 

Hopefully good weather will allow me to do some more painting on the 156s too.  

The Class 323 bogies are slightly different. However, with the lack of the correct ones, as you say, who is going to notice too much? The ones you have are a bit 'thick' and do need slimming down. I had to do that for some of his Class 442 sideframes. Also I found the thickness can vary from one sideframe to another, different moulds?

 

Good to hear of some progress, looking forward to some pictures in due course.

[JDW]

A 'bit' is an understatement, I reckin I need to take a good 3mm off each one. And so far the only way I can see to do it evenly and safely is by rubbing them against a file laid on the desk. The first one came out about 1mm wider than a Hornby class 156 bogie across the airbags, but looks right sat under the bodyshell. 

 

I'm not sure what I'll do about couplings yet. I seem to remember the 323 has quite deep gangway bellows that cover the coupling too. If that's the case, I have some extras that I bought from Ebay, 3d-printed ones, for the class 465 project, which would suit but leave little room for a coupling bar underneath. The easy option of bogie-mounted couplings will mean quite long coupling bars.   

[JDW]

Not a lot of progress to report. I see that some of the images have reappeared, but most still seem to be missing. I did manage to just about finish the Northern lilac 156, just needs the pale blue stripes extending onto the ends, and numbers/logos adding when I get around to sourcing some. The black around the exhausts needs touching up too, and cantrail stipes adding. The paintwork's not perfect, but looks OK from a few feet away. 

While I was at it, I decided I ought to get around to fitting new steps below the light clusters on the 153 next to it. It was constructed from bits in the spares box, so they were missing to start with. Just needs a couple of tiny bits of black plasticard, and then I'll call it finished. 

I have been keeping my eye out for cheap Hornby 142 bodyshells too, as I need glazing for my 141. I spotted a few on Ebay recently, so they're on their way too. 

There's been no progress on the 323. Every time I look at it, I either manage to create another crack or find another job that needs doing, so it's come to a bit of a halt. The 466 hasn't progressed either, though I have enough parts to create a rolling 4-car unit, plus a second pair of inner coach bodyhells. Just needs motivation!  

 

 

[JDW]

I decided that, since I now have windows for it, I should probably try and fit the 141 to a chassis. Which highlighted my inability to build things square, as well as the fact that the Peco roof sections make it probably a couple of millimetres too narrow. So it's going to be a proper pain to do. 

 

 

Another small parcel arrived (a new bogie), which means I have enough parts for the complete 465, though it still needs some work to build one more bogie from a collection of broken parts. The Hornby ones seem particularly prone to breaking. 

 

 

I've still not done anything about chassis for the other pair of bodies, I have one in stock but need a second. 

 

The extra bodies (bottom two in both images below) have one Hornby end and one very basic plasticard end each

 

 

The full coaches (top two) have all except one end using the original Hornby ends. 

 

 

I have some 3D-printed gangway connections that match the Hornby ones, which can be clipped into the existing holes. On the plain ends, I'll just file off the clips and glue them in place. 

Still need to sort out ned coupling bars for some of the bogies too.

 

No idea what I'll do with it when it's finished, but can't see me getting round to painting it any time soon anyway!

Edited December 27, 2022 by JDW

[tjf4375]

Nice job on the 465! The parts for these are fiendishly difficult to get, and you're absolutely right - the bogies are extremely brittle. I got lucky a few years ago and managed to bag a job lot of bodyshells and chassis, as well as gangway parts. It's crazy what prices the original train packs go for on ebay nowadays.

[richierich]

On 15/10/2022 at 13:27, JDW said:

I decided that, since I now have windows for it, I shozld probably try and fit the 141 to a chassis. Which highlighted my inability to build things square, as well as the fact that the Peco roof sections make it probably a couple of millimetres too narrow. So it's going to be a proper pain to do. 

 

The 141 bodies looks good. Looking forward to seeing these progress.  Have you a chassis arrangement in mind?

[JDW]

The chassis will be from two halves of a Realtrack 144, one a spare car I picked up off Ebay, the other the remains of my earlier centre car project. No real progress though, as the bodies don't fit easily and I'm not really sure how to go forward with it. 

 

I've been having a good look at the 323 as well, every time I pick it up there seems to be another crack in the 3D-printed shell. I've concluded that what really is needed, to get it to ride at the correct height, is going to be an extra 1-2mm along the bottom of the bodysides. Otherwise it's just far too low. Adding a strip should mean the body sits at the right height on the bogies too - looking at how they line up with the fairing under the cab, they are too high at the minute. It might actually solve my problem of how to fit a floor inside the tumblehome, as I could just fit a piece of plasticard across the bottom, which would form the floor and add the extra depth. I'm thinking I'll do that at each end, outboard of the doors, to give a solid and easy bogie mount, then leave the centre open for now to allow me to slot an interior in later and just add a strip along the bottoms of the sides. 

[JDW]

As mentioned, I've added a strip of plastic along the insides of the shell to try and prevent cracking. I also fitted

an inner floor to the outer ends of each coach using the lugs provided on the 3D print. This has had a great effect on stiffening the shell. On top (below?) these, I added a second piece of plastic, 1.5mm thick, and once the superglue had dried I filed this to match the tumblehome. I added a matching strip along the bottom of the rest of the body, and again filed to shape. Various attempts to sort the splayed sides have left them a little wavy buy hopefully it won't be too obvious once finished. On the centre car, I added a couple of extra cross braces. The superglue has thankfully been string enough to keep the sides pulled in. 

 

 

 

Above, the three stages in progress. The second driving coach will need another dip in hot water to soften it before I pull the bottom edge into line. 

 

I also made a provisional bogie pivot to mount the first pair of bogies, Southern Pride one-piece plastic mouldings with sideframes bought from the same seller as the body. Using the supplied shim between the bogie and floor, the flanges on the Hornby 12mm wheels just touch the floor so a slight tweak will be needed. The ride height looks just about right compared to the nearest thing I had to hand, a Hornby class 60, and the ratio of window height to lower bodyside depth looks much closer to being in proportion. 

 

 

 

I'll need to add a new strengthening plate below each door. I should probably lower the step boards below each door too, but I think I'll leave them as is for now. 

 

The bogie frames are much too thick, and have needed a lot of sanding to make them fit the bogie frames. Before and after comparison - the dust is from doing just one.