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S7 scratch building


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Well the loco has been locked up and may never see the light of day again.

So it's back to wagons but..........

I have had these axleguards in stock for a while so I thought I better get them out and use them. 

First problem, they come without instructions. The packet advised going to the Ambis web site for the instructions which I did which show only the fold of the inner bearing carrier. Not being a computer expert ( thick really ) I couldn't find any other information. It may be there somewhere but I couldn't see it. 

So I am asking for help from someone who has used the axleguards. 

First thing I need to know is what they are supposed to do ? Are they fixed / sprung / rocking ?

Why are the holes on each side for the bearings a different size ?

I tried to work it out for myself and folded up the first set and one bearing carrier but what then ?

 

Perhaps I have been following my own path for so long doing things my way I have lost the plot with kits and bits from the trade. Things that should seem so obvious never are to me. 

My good friend Peter says my brain is wired up wrong which he tells me at every opportunity.

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I made up some of the 4mm-scale kind once but never completed them.

 

The Ambis axleguards can be made fixed, rocking or sprung. For rocking, you need to file off the tabs on the top. For springing, you need to cut out the plate with the bearing hole between the legs of the "W".

 

IIRC correctly the springs are to be made from spring wire that engages in the slots behind the W irons. I've no idea what gauge of wire is needed. Given the length of the spring is only the width of the axleguard, I'd imagine that the wire would need to be thinner than in the Bill-Bedford design where the spring supports are on outriggers. Since there's nothing to contain the springs along the length of the wagon, I guess you're supposed to solder them to the bearing carrier.

 

It might be worth ringing Hobby Holidays for advice. I agree that the instructions are not very well written.

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Thanks Guy, I broke the bend on the fold up carrier and in my haste I soldered it on upside down. I realised my mistake and took it apart and made good my error. I can now see if I remove the centre section it will enable this to slide in the W-iron. The plate in the middle of the W-irons I think is for compensation but I'm still confused by the different holes for the bearings being different sizes ?

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Mike, Ambis instructions for the axleguards are in the Hobby Holidays website.  You will find them by selecting ‘Links’ on the Home page.  The instructions are included amongst the downloads.
 

However, the instructions are not exactly helpful leading me to experiment using my own instincts.  I have attached some photos which shows the results of my efforts.  I drilled some extra holes in the frames of the axleguard frames to take spring wire.  I haven’t yet worked out the optimum diameter of spring wire but 0.3-0.4mm to avoid overweighting the wagon.  My trials are ongoing also!

 

Charlie

 

 

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Charlie, thank you for your input. I noticed that you have bent at 90 degrees the inner carrier at the end away from the bearing hole. Is this to allow for up and down movement in the W-iron. You say you have drilled extra holes to take the wires for the springing but it's not clear from the photos where they are.

I had worked out how the sliding arrangements worked when I saw your post by removing the central part and I have now got a very free moving  W-iron. It is the method of how the wire to spring them mounts that I have not worked out.

I may remove each side of the W-iron so I can mount them in my usual way so I can screw them to the wagon floor. This enables me to remove them for painting.

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It's worth noting that the bearing carrier pokes through the axleguard on this design. C.f. other axleguard systems where the carriers lies entirely behind the axleguard and only the bearing pokes through. This means that the axlebox needs to be mounted to the carrier and moving r, as Lochgorm has it, not fixed to the axleguard front surface as I prefer. That's why I gave up on these in 4mm scale.

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Guy, I hadn't noticed that Charlie had mounted the carrier inside the W-iron . The photos were a bit dark to see clearly but once you pointed it out I can see that now. If bearing part is not riding in a slot how does whole thing work and keep stable ?

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No Mike, the bearing carrier is mounted as you have shown in your photo.  I may have confused matters with my example by dispensing with the outer layer of the bearing carrier and using instead the axle box which has suitable rectangular area on the back.

 

The holes for the spring wires are drilled 0.5mm 3mm in from the back of the axleguard as close to the top of the fold up crossmember as possible.  The spring wire just straddles through these 2 holes secured by bending the ends over allowing sufficient length for full downwards deflection.

 

Yes I have folded the tops of the bearing carriers over on the inside.  The projecting tabs on the carrier can sit on the spring wire  thereby eliminating the tricky operation of attaching the spring wire.  Soldering steel can be difficult and the joint may not be reliable for long term use.

 

I find the width of the whole fold down axle guard unit is fine to fit between sole bars set at a scale distance of 42mm apart.  I leave the upward facing projecting tabs as they do seem to set the ride height correctly.  On the top I fit a rectangle of 40thou Plastikard between them to give a better gluing area for the Araldite that I use.  You could choose to refine this by screwing through the plate instead.

 

Hope all this helps.

 

Charlie

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Charlie, thank you for the explanation, it does make things clearer now. 

I have decided to remove the W-iron from there base plate and solder a length of 3mm X 3mm brass angle to the back. 

I will use this to screw the parts in my usual fashion once I have drilled holes in them. 

I am not sure how I am going to spring them because I am making it up as I go along. 

Once I have made all parts ready to assemble on to the base plate I am sure it can't be to hard to figure something out can it ?

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Charlie, the short answer is no, there isn't any half etched line to bend at a certain point. You are left on your own with that one. So where to bent the carrier so that the ride height is correct is going to be by trial and error.

At this point I am not sure how to proceed with the bearing carrier or how to spring them. 

I Have made a base plate similar to the ones I used for Slaters sprung W-irons that give the ride height for the W-irons that matches my other wagons.

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Having made up the sliding carrier part I was not satisfied with the fit which was to sloppy.

So I have made new inner parts but added a peg at the top so I can spring them with a phosphor bronze spring. 

I will have to make another part for the top also with a peg to locate the spring. 

I cut off the top part to leave 2 prongs that limit the amount of travel movement. 

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Mike, You do seem to be a long way off piste now led astray by some idiosyncratic etching and lack of instructions.

 

I was typing out some thoughts on how to continue from where you had reached but I have just seen that you have resolved you own plan of attack.  Therefore I will keep schtum and watch your posts, as I usually do, with interest.

 

In spite of your experiences I would still recommend the Ambis units as the NBR examples work for me in my choice of pre-grouping Scottish rolling stock.

 

Good Luck!

 

Charlie

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There was a lot more work than I was expecting but I have got there in the end, just 3 more to do. 

Would I use them again. If there was an alternative probably not. 

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i was just looking through the national archives online photos and saw a wagon that knew was familiar, im guessing this is the photograph you were working from?

https://images.nationalarchives.gov.uk/assetbank-nationalarchives/action/viewAsset?id=7825&index=272&total=628&categoryId=26&categoryTypeId=1&collection=Mining&sortAttributeId=0&sortDescending=true

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Sir Douglas,  yes that's the one I worked from plus a drawing in Coal Trade Wagons by L,Tavender. 

Finished the L&Y W-irons so I just have to find a wagon to put them under.

At least I have the books and drawings so it's just a question of  what I need or what I fancy ?

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6 hours ago, sir douglas said:

i was just looking through the national archives online photos and saw a wagon that knew was familiar, im guessing this is the photograph you were working from?

https://images.nationalarchives.gov.uk/assetbank-nationalarchives/action/viewAsset?id=7825&index=272&total=628&categoryId=26&categoryTypeId=1&collection=Mining&sortAttributeId=0&sortDescending=true

Hi Sam

Nice find I really like it.

Marc

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I have decided to build a simple 2 plank centre door Half Box ( dia 16 ) wagon. This will have self contained buffers rather than standard buffers because that's all I have in stock. I am going make the brakes from this etch given to me by Graham Beare. The L&Y used a very destinct brake shoe which gives them such character.

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I will try and get through this post without my usual dyslexic c*ckups. 

Not much work done of late but I have done the buffers made from modified Peco parallel GWR parts. I have used my usual blackening fluid on them.

The solebars needed a cutout at the ends where the buffers come through the headstock to accommodate the end caps. 

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May I ask, do you use the Birchwood Casey gunsmith's type of blackening for brass and, if so, is it a reasonably robust finish which can withstand a bit of (albeit careful) handling whilst completing a model?

Kit PW

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kitpw,

yes I have used Birchwood Casey Liquid Gun Blue on the brass buffers bodies. I clean them with Methylated Spirits  before leaving them in the Birchwood liquid for about 10 minutes before washing them again in Meths. 

A quick polish with a cotton bud I find is enough to make them ready for use. I find provided they are cleaned beforehand they will wear well and will stand careful handling. 

 

I have started on the on the brake gear using the etched brake shoes given to me by Graham Beare. When Graham offered them to me I wasn't sure I would have a use for them. But having made up the first of the brake shoes I am so glad 

i accepted Grahams offer. These shoes fold up perfectly and capture the look of the unusual type used by the L&Y. 

The quality of the etch is so good that there was so little cleaning up to do once soldered. 

The V-irons are some old ones I had in stock. I think they are Cambrain Railway ones but they fitted the bill perfectly.

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When I made the W-irons on the last wagon I made I couldn't get at the screws because of the wheels so I made the carrier longer. This time I made the carrier longer which has made the provision of the  break gear difficult to locate. 

Things like this always happen because I very rarely plan ahead. I like to have everything come apart for painting so I was going to make the  brake gear on a plate. This time I had to solder the the brake shoe hanger directly to the W-iron carrier. 

Because of where the screws were I had to bend the hangers into a S shape and solder on the outside of the W-iron carrier. I have done the first side and assembled the V-irons temporary with lace pins to line everything up. These will be replaced later when I start painting.

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I wasn't happy soldering the brake shoes to the W-irons so decided to start again. This time I glued a couple of bits of plastic to the wagon frame to hold a piece of brass angle that I could solder the brake shoes to. 

The brake gear was built up with lace pins and soldered together. I have to admit this took me several goes before I got this right that included a fair bit of bad language. 

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