Jump to content
 

S7 scratch building


Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Premium
2 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

Both confirm that the strap was only on the outside of the block in the way Mike has modelled it.

 

That's my interpretation, to Bill's consternation.

 

I've "put the question" on the LNWRS Forum.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I have found an old resin body of a one plank LNWR open wagon that has some damage. Rather than scrap it I thought I will make one with a tarpaulin sheet to cover the damage.  

I was going to start making some brakegear but then we had a phone call from my daughter who has hurt her neck. So we have got the grandsons here today which is great but not so good for modelling. 

 

20210412_085718.jpg

20210412_085730.jpg

  • Like 14
Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks like another fairly quick win, if the grandkids don't exhaust you. Your train will be growing much quicker than normal this month!

I too must get back to some of my half-finished wagon projects, the 'Parrot' (WWI warflat) is top of the list and also has LNWR connections. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a photo of some Dia1 fitted with tarp rails in LNWR wagons 1 not sure of the page but I think it was in the section related to the works rather than the wagons as I think there was a dia4 in the trial.

Marc

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a number of photos of similar 1-plank opens on Manchester Docks pre-WWI with a very wide variety of loads which are sheeted, or would have been sheeted when running but are visible because they are being loaded/unloaded. Some are barely higher than the sides (no doubt dense items), but they range through stacks of crates and barrels, to very lightweight loads like cotton bales stacked high. These aren't all LNWR wagons of course, but none seem to have a sheet rail - with a 1-plank wagon the load is almost always higher than the sides so there's less risk of it sagging in the middle.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike,

 

The D1 photos show that you are using self-tap (?) screws to fix the axleguard etches...  the top photo shows that the screws (or fixing holes) come through the floor.  How do you finish the floor colouring so as to hide the evidence of the fixings?

 

regards, Graham

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Graham, yes I have used self tappers to screw the W-irons into the floor. And yes they do come through the other side but as I am going to fix a tarpaulin on top permanently I won't be trying to cover or colour match anything.  Crude but effective.  

I have cut out a brake block out of the same brass washer that I have used in the past. 

 

Marc, I don't think that the one plank Dia 1 were ever fitted with a sheet rail support bar. The two plank ones were photographed with them as a trial but how many were fitted in traffic I couldn't say. 

 

I have seen articles about companies wagon sheets but my old brain can't remember where or even which magazine or book that it appeared in.

20210412_210825.jpg

16182589519825257473928253855890.jpg

  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Until I can find the information about wagon sheets I will play around with bits of black paper and coloured crayons. I have found the sheet size that was used before 1910 which was 19' 6" X 15' 5" on the LNWR.

So I have cut out several sheets that size and will make up a few to practice on.

16182618925284292735794062665899.jpg

  • Like 14
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Playing about with this black paper to try and make something like a wagon sheet I found in my children's toy cupboard a pair of scissors that cuts a zigzag line. Remembering that the Cambrian had zigzagging along the bottom of there sheets I decided to try to cut out of thin card template to spray such a line. 

So I cut a couple of strips and tapped them down to a piece of board before spraying them with White primer from a rattle can. It's not perfect but it does show promise.

20210413_091453.jpg

20210413_092422.jpg

20210413_091435.jpg

  • Like 11
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people use thin foil-backed paper (as used for wrapping some chocolates and sweets) for representing wagon sheets. They need painting but are thought to provide a better impression of folds and wrinkles  than just paper. 

I haven’t done this myself (yet) but search this forum for ‘Tunnocks’ and you will find some examples. 

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Mine are all bought in not home made. The best ones I have had are from Thomas Petith, trading as wagonsheets.co.uk. He did have a website (at that address) which has disappeared. I last bought from him in 2017; I had been concerned but I have recently seen evidence of his continued existence but I've not yet found out if he still offers the sheets - and I'm afraid I can't remember if he did or does them in other scales than 4 mm. They are printed on a sort of tissue paper which is stronger than it seems. Here are a couple of his early (pre c. 1902/3) Great Western sheets:

 

2055876116_GWO4No.760814-plankNos.49012and63499sheetedtimberload.JPG.253ca5a32e672e4384de8c45b20af758.JPG

 

Midland:

 

1192029413_MidlandD299scratchbodysheeted.JPG.16dd511502a4332fca5c0acb1e0df49a.JPG

 

(This is hiding a scratch-built body on a Slaters underframe, dating from my teenage years, so please excuse the numberplate being the wrong side of the V hanger.)

 

L&Y, early pattern:

 

813687354_LYD15andD3.JPG.273ae62835e83a5a36209aeba287c49c.JPG

 

(rather an unhappy time was had there with some Powsides rub-down transfers - I think I have improved my technique since.)

 

And LNWR, a bit of an unsuccesful attempt at furling:

 

996225600_LNWD2No.42152withfurledsheet.JPG.7e33b5261855fff4515d544df0979a68.JPG

 

His LNWR sheet has the red Saltaire cross; my understanding is that @Penlan's research has shown that 19th-century sheets had a right cross as on the one you're making, Mike. 

 

Rather pedantically I've insisted on modelling all sixteen sheet ties, as seen here on a Smiths sheet (rejected as also out of period):

 

977435048_LYwagonsheet.JPG.eb78b3e6fad9cf71777c354979d7476b.JPG

 

Some have commented that they find having that many ties makes the model look over fussy; I think it's down to how discretely they're fixed to the model. The ties are grey sewing thread attached by dipping the end in a (very small) pool of cyanoacrylate and just gently placing in the position where the eyelet would be. In S7 I dare say one could insert small brass eyelets into the sheet...

 

The Smiths sheets have lines representing the seams where the five strips of canvas were sewn together; sheets had three triangular flaps sewn into the first seam on each side, with eyelets, so that the sheet could be used with a low-sided wagon with a shallow load, with the excess furled up. Another example rejected as out-of-period (sheet in use between May 1920 and Feb 1921):

 

1829957863_LNWwagonsheet.JPG.724d40bdcd0e04f54268b0b00831dd61.JPG

 

I've not mastered the furling; when this was discussed on my wagon-building thread, I was pointed in the direction of ship modelling techniques, which I'm afraid I have not yet tried out.

 

For GWR sheets I have also used a template drawn for 2 mm scale by @Ian Smith scaled up and printed on ordinary lightweight printer paper using a not at all fancy HP inkjet printer:

 

1935062846_GWO4sheetedbrakesidecrop.JPG.a56751b099644d1feba164d6f0cf81cf.JPG

 

That's about the extent of my wagon sheet modelling. My "philosophy" (if such pomposity will be excused) is to treat wagon and sheet as a single model. There are some folk who like to make their sheets removeable, which to my mind goes against nature since the ties can't be represented. I suppose they don't like the idea of forever hiding their wagon craftsmanship from view; to my mind a sheet is the ideal way to cover up one's failings!

 

Pretty much everything I know about wagon sheets is from an article by Bob Essery in Midland Record Vol. 3, with some inspiration taken from the igg site though I treat this with caution and generally like to have independent verification of the information therein. The sketches of sheeted wagons are pretty good, though, being based on photos, some of which I have seen.

 

Hope that's of some help. I think my key message is: sixteen ties.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 5
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Stephen,  thank you for the information from Bob Essery's article on wagon sheets. That is just what I wanted with all the different railway companies sheets. 

I found in my pile of paperwork an Exactoscale paper wagon sheet for the Caledonian Railway. 

I have never used these before although I have had it many years. I did have others but they seem to have been lost over the years. The instructions say to wet them gently before folding them over the wagon loads. I did wonder whether this me would work with my home made one. No is the answer as can be seen. Everything that I had drawn on just bleed everywhere.  Perhaps I should have sprayed Matt varnish over the entire paper before wetting it. The other option is to paint all the markings with Humbrol oil paint. 

I may try another way like I did with the dust covers on my ballast wagons which was to glue baking foil on the back of the paper first and left to dry before folding. It may not work but I can have fun trying. 

20210413_131823.jpg

20210413_130619.jpg

20210413_131123.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Friendly/supportive 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Adam, yes I have seen those wonderful models with envy. If I could get mine to look anywhere as good I would be very pleased. Unfortunately I don't have the computer skills to do mine that way. 

I am trying as many different ways as I can but without success as yet. 

I have tried sticking baking foil to the back of the paper I am using. This hasn't been as good as I'd hoped.  I think the baking foil isn't thick enough. I have some black tissue paper to try next.

I did make the brake handle and rack today which is good but I don't have any axleboxes left, but they are on order.

20210413_141540.jpg

20210413_164026.jpg

20210413_171119.jpg

20210413_181126.jpg

  • Like 12
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, airnimal said:

... I don't have any axleboxes left, but they are on order.

Mike,

 

I have some D1 bodies that Adrian (RIP) sold to me as "rejects"...  I have sourced the buffers, I have failed to locate axleboxes so please tell me where you are obtaining supplies.

 

regards, Graham

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Western Star said:

Mike,

 

I have some D1 bodies that Adrian (RIP) sold to me as "rejects"...  I have sourced the buffers, I have failed to locate axleboxes so please tell me where you are obtaining supplies.

 

regards, Graham

I sell LNWR 7-ton axleboxes, with springs, on Shapeways. But perhaps you need castings rather than prints?

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Graham, I am having the axleboxes and springs printed. They are the same ones I had done about 2 years ago. I didn't know that Guy did them when I had them done as I would probably have used his. These things only come to light after the event. 

 

I made a mistake when I said that the Cambrian used sheets with zigzag lines on, that should have been the CLC. My memory is very poor these days. 

 

I have repainted this wagon with a lighter grey and I keep trying with these wagon sheets.

I tried putting twisted wire thread on the sheet which had been backed with foil before glueing a second sheet on and leaving to dry. But I think it is going to take a lot more work before I am satisfied. 

20210414_151452.jpg

20210414_152807.jpg

Edited by airnimal
  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Some (many?) merchandise wagons had hooks/eyes installed on the underframe specifically for roping sheets or loads. When I built my LMS D1667 I installed these as per the drawing and used some of them for roping the timber load:

251B95B0-20AE-4AF8-A37F-B0FDC0CA989F.jpeg.ca165b73a32c36b8ebbf448e6ec3c25e.jpeg

My understanding is that a load should be sheeted over the wagon as a whole. In some cases a load would be sheeted within the wagon as well, but the instructions were in that case that another sheet should be put over the top and roped down outside the wagon. 

I have copies of the BR and the MSC loading instructions, would be happy to share if it helps. 

 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...