Poggy1165 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 This model makes my Slater's tar wagons - one of which I was reasonably proud of - seem quite mundane. A superb job. (The Slater's kit is one of my favourite builds, although the transfers that went on it were a nightmare. It's one of those kits I'd like to make more examples of, but suitable prototypes are elusive.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 16, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2021 Tricky, I have now sprayed the wagon with matt varnish and most of the weathering has disappeared which is not what I wanted or anticipated. I will have to get the Humbrol paints out and try again. It doesn't look to bad in the flesh but doesn't look very good in the photographs. I still have to make a replacement for the brake handle. We have had one of the grandsons today as well as doing lots of jobs for the boss so very little time for modelling. Still it gets me in the good books for a short time ! 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 If it were here, I would prepare a palette of Humbrol Gunmetal, Humbrol matt black, and talcum powder, and it would get treated with various combinations of those using stippling and vertical streaking. Probably in several stages with subtle variations of colour and texture. Having said that, I haven't actually applied these techniques to a complete wagon yet, only to trial pieces (e.g. seen in the background here). This is the effect I need to achieve: I really must get on and finish my cylindrical tar tank before I move on to the rectangular one! Incidentally the tank uses Archer rivet decals. 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 16, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, airnimal said: I have now sprayed the wagon with matt varnish and most of the weathering has disappeared which is not what I wanted or anticipated. I will have to get the Humbrol paints out and try again. It doesn't look to bad in the flesh but doesn't look very good in the photographs. I think that looks rather good: nicely subtle. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I hadn't seen this until a link was made to my photos. That is really excellent, so pleased the rivets have some slightly out of alignment as I've measured thousands on tank wagons and they always are a bit askew and not quite equally spaced. The representation of the cast ownership plates are delightful. Such an important part of tank wagons, right into the 1970s and not often represented so well. Each owner seemed to have their own way of doing them - some were very large. Paul 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 25, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2021 Now I have finished the tank wagon and before I start on another room dec.............. In my toy box of bits are some Exactoscale etched wagon chassis parts. I have never been good with kits of any sort but keeping an open mind I thought I would try my hand with one and see how i went with it. First problem is the lack of instructions ! Now I am sure I have been here before because I seem to remember being told that the instructions are all on the net. But where and are they clear for a dummy like myself ? Anyway I have removed the first part and cleaned up the cusps on all the edges before bending up the W-irons including the little tab at the bottom. First question is does the part behind the W-iron which holds the bearing fold completely over and trap the spring wire or does it bend to 90% ? There are other small tabs that they look as they fold up and then bend over as well ? All this is a bit of a mystery having never used them the way the designer envisaged. Anyone used these as intended ? 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 Does this help? 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) Mike, The photo above shows a bearing cradle with folded lugs at each end - those lugs are one of two options for attachment of Exactoscale brake hangers. Do you have any packets of Exactoscale brake gear? Each packet provides parts to build the brake gear with either hangers fixed to the baseplate or hangers fixed to the lugs in the above photo. In the first option the brake blocks remain in a fixed position as the wheels move up/down. In the second option the brake blocks move with the wheels. My preference is to have the brake blocks fixed in hangers which are fixed to the floor... so I can remove the wheels without disturbing the brake gear. regards, Graham Edited August 25, 2021 by Western Star Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 25, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2021 Paul, thank you for the photograph. The answer it is a help but only partially. Graham, yes I have some packets of brakegear shown here. The part that I need to know about is the part that the bearing fits into and which way it folds over trapping the wire ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 I have attached the relevant part of the instructions. Exactoscale.pdf 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 26, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2021 Paul, many thanks for finding these instructions. They are exactly what I needed. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2021 5 hours ago, airnimal said: Paul, many thanks for finding these instructions. They are exactly what I needed. Mike So often not the case with instructions! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 26, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2021 Thanks to people helping I believe I now have all the answers to these Exactoscale W-irons. The fold of the bearing carrier folds over and is then squeezed in the vice before the ends are fold up as the photograph. The instructions say to solder along the top edge without getting any solder inside. As yet I haven't soldered this top edge because I have being doing household duties. Once folded up the spring wire which is cut to 21.5 mm long is de-burred and slips in the carrier through the hole in the top. This wire must be straight otherwise it will not work according to my helpline of friends. I have decided to go with the smaller bearings supplied rather than the Slaters ones I was going to used. These smaller bearings need reaming out to take the Slaters wheels. This means that the Slaters axles will need shortening and some washers or bits of tube placing over to limit side play. All this will have to wait because there is more family matters going on today. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 26, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) Released from family duties I can get back to making this wagon chassis. I placed the carrier in place and folded the 2 small prongs at the base of the W-irons against it and folding back the 2 small parts at the top. I put the wheels in to see how much side play there was and how many washers I would need to eliminate it. I figured out it would be about 30 thou each side. I decided to cut the Slaters bearings down to this amount and trial fit them and see how it was going to work out. I drilled a hole in a piece of 30 thou plasticard and placed the bearing in before removing the excess with a small saw and cleaning up with a file. I fitted the wheels and was pleased to see it was the correct amount needed to be a perfect fit. I just need to trim a small amount of the axle ends left sticking out. Edited August 26, 2021 by airnimal 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 26, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2021 I forgot to mention that I soldered the W-irons on the outside where it meets the slot with a small amount of solder. This is important because if you flood it with to much it will come out the other side and preventing the carrier from going up and down smoothly. I have cut a small amount from the ends of the axles and removed the burrs. I am happy to report that they isn't any side play and the suspension works like silk. 14 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, airnimal said: I am happy to report that [ ... ] the suspension works like silk. Sounds like a happy convert... well done. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 It does look to be a well thought out design, I’ve never built one,so I’ll have to try it one day watching with interest! Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 27, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2021 Simon, I am pleased how this wagon chassis has turned out. I particularly like the ability to remove the wheels just by splaying out the W-irons just like you can do in 4 mm models. I have asked several times on here and other places why are 7mm wagon axles so long needing long bearings ? My theory is because they were that length in the 50's and 60's when wagons were made from wood with crude white metal axleboxes and people are reluctant to change. Similarly in a way as why S7 hasn't taken off with the majority because people claim that they have to much F/S stock or can't run the stock they already have on other people layouts if they changed to S7. I don't remember reading anything about fold up etched W-irons and how to remove wheels for painting. Or how to fold them in the first place so that the wheels do have the correct amount of side play. Perhaps I haven't read the right articles as I stand on my soap box ! Anyway I have 7 more of these underframes to build. I am not sure if you can still buy them today or if they have gone from the market. It would be a shame if that was the case because once I had the instructions it was a pleasure to put together with so little solder and with the ability to remove the wheels for painting. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 27, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) No matter how much I poke the bear I don't get any reactions. Perhaps apathy rules the roost ! Edited August 27, 2021 by airnimal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Mike, I do not understand what you are saying in your most recent post. As I cannot recognise what you are poking it is not surprising that I may appear to be exhibiting apathy. regards, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 6 hours ago, airnimal said: I don't remember reading anything about fold up etched W-irons and how to remove wheels for painting. Or how to fold them in the first place so that the wheels do have the correct amount of side play As someone who has recently started 7mm modelling, I was surprised at the lack of compensated under-frame components. I've purchased some Smiths 'W' irons but these are made in stainless steel, which strikes me as a very odd material to use, particularly when it comes to soldering and painting. I've also seen various compensation systems using rocking cradles with internal bearings and I should try them out to get over my dislike of these in 4mm - I expect that they should work much better given the greater mass of 7mm vehicles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted August 27, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) Graham, if you build a 7mm wagon kit with fixed axles, how do you remove the wheels for painting once you have glued it altogether ? If you build the same in 4mm you can remove the wheels just by springing the axleboxes apart with little effort. Why are 7mm wagon bearings so long ? It not as they have to carry a great heavy load. I just feel there must be a better way of construction to be able to paint or replace parts at will. Edited August 27, 2021 by airnimal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Mike, now I understand your earlier comment. The simple answer is likely to be "ask David White" because for most of the last fifty years the prime source of 7mm wheels has been Slaters and the "standard" 7mm pin-point axle has been a constant throughout that time. Just be careful what you wish for though... there is a current 7mm RTR maunfacturer who has either three or four different axle lengths / diameters across their current range of wagons and that causes all sorts of problems when considering conversion to S7 standards. regards, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Though I’m not a bear, this animal is quite happy to be poked. S7 is clearly a desirable route for 7mm modelling, and is pretty much as accessible as 0FS or 0MF, yes, you have to faff around a bit with RTR stock, but we all do that anyway, so that’s no big deal. It makes no odds building kits to one or the other standard, “apart from the finished appearance”, I hear the S7 crowd bellow from the stands! You can’t buy RTP S7 track, which may put some/many folks off. You can’t reasonably expect most S7 stock to cope with 4’ curves, that’ll put a few more off. I could certainly have gone down the S7 route, but when I returned to the 0 gauge fold, my mates’ layouts were 32mm. I could have ploughed a lonely 33mm furrow, but preferred to run my models on the available layouts, my loco shed is far from a running opportunity, it will be one day, I hope. Til then, running rights elsewhere are the order of the day. and yes, it is a PITA having axles that are much longer than needed. But you learn to live with it, like a stone in your shoe. cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2021 30 minutes ago, Simond said: But you learn to live with it, like a stone in your shoe. I thought the point there was to take off your shoe and shake out the stone? 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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