S7 scratch building

[Gypsy]

Not one of, undoubtedly the best.

 

On the prostate you have my sympathy. I had surgery and radiotherapy 4 years ago and am now pretty much normal though I suspect I'm a bit younger than you (50s)...

 

All the best.

 

[rocor]

On 16/11/2020 at 13:10, airnimal said:

I haven't posted for some time because my old Apple I-pad will not allow replies to any posts on RM web. So much for progress. So I am using another tablet which has an inferior camera.

I don't supposed people have missed my poor grammar or bad spellings but I have not been idle in these dark times. But at least we have our hobby to keep us sane when we can't go anywhere.

This new wagon is another P.O from the Wigan area that I wanted to attempt with the lettering on a curve. The build has been finished but not yet assembled while I do the painting. I have cheated on the numbers and the small letters which came from some meth fix transfers given to me over 20 years ago by John Petcher. I also cheated on the build using some leftover solebars from Slaters which I have had in spares box for even longer.

 

On the subject of the parts that you buy in for your models, such as:- buffers , couplings, wheel sets, etched under frame components  and sheet plastic materials, have you still managed to obtain them during the current crisis?,  or are you mainly using materials that you already had in stock?.

[airnimal]

rocor, the only parts that I needed to buy this year has been plasticard, wagon wheels and Evergreen plastic strip. These have all been bought mail order from Eileen's Emporium or Slaters Plasticard. 

I have been modelling in 7mm scale for over 40 years so I have collected numerous parts over that time. I have been lucky to know many people in the trade as well as some famous O gauge model makers. I have traded parts as well as being in the right place at the right time to buy parts that perhaps were not widely available. 

One of the sad part of this lockdown is the lack of exhibitions to rummage around the small traders stands and second hand stalls to source old and withdrawn parts. 

In the early 60's and 70's when O gauge was starting to become more popular there were lots of one man bands making small runs of stuff that were only available to those in the know. I missed lots of bits only hearing about them later on when they were all gone.

I am sure there are still lots of parts hanging around in older workshops still yet to be discovered.

I have parts in my parts bin that I am still using that I cannot remember where I obtain them from.

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by airnimal

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, rocor said:

 

On the subject of the parts that you buy in for your models, such as:- buffers , couplings, wheel sets, etched under frame components  and sheet plastic materials, have you still managed to obtain them during the current crisis?,  or are you mainly using materials that you already had in stock?.

 

I've had absolutely no problem buying 4 mm scale parts - Alan Gibson, MJT/Dart, 51L/Wizard, Eileen's as mentioned by Mike.

[Andy Hayter]

In 4mm, wheels have been an issue.  Andrew at 51L was out of stock of many of the wagon and coach wheels for several weeks and loco wheels seems to be a lottery 

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

In 4mm, wheels have been an issue.  Andrew at 51L was out of stock of many of the wagon and coach wheels for several weeks and loco wheels seems to be a lottery 

 

Alan Gibson 12 mm split-spoke wheels were out of stock at Eileens but when I contacted Colin he was about to run off a large batch for another customer so I was able to get some direct - which is what I usually do. I'd only gone to Eileens since Colin had a notice on his website saying how busy he was...

[airnimal]

I've tickled up the lettering a small amount but I don't think I can get it any better than it is.

I have still to add the axleboxes and springs as well as doing the lettering on the other side. The weather has not been kind for spraying outdoors and I do not have a spray booth inside my workshop.

The absence of a tare weight is because there isn't any on the photographs I have. I don't know why but it is something I have come across before on wagons from the Wigan area. 

I still have the interior to finish and modify the wheels.

 

My modelling may be soon be getting a reduction in hours spent shortly because my better half has decided after 12 months of soul searching to finally retire at Christmas. I have already been given notice on what is expected of me regarding days out / more grandchildren time / shopping / decorating and any number of other things.  I have put in an objection with her employers but I have been overruled. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by airnimal

[Coal Tank]

It comes to us Mike, it comes to us all

[wagonman]

2 hours ago, Coal Tank said:

It comes to us Mike, it comes to us all

 

Does it? I'm 74 and still waiting – one of the perils of being self-employed.

[Coal Tank]

2 hours ago, wagonman said:

 

Does it? I'm 74 and still waiting – one of the perils of being self-employed.

I meant the jobs that your wife finfs for you to do

Edited November 20, 2020 by Coal Tank

[Caley Jim]

4 hours ago, airnimal said:

I have put in an objection with her employers but I have been overruled. 

Sounds like the usual 'Equal Partnership' arrangements - she has the casting vote!

 

Jim

[MarcD]

I wear the trousers in our house I'm just informed when I'm to put them on and what I'm to do while wearing them. We work as a team and do it her way.

Marc

[Crimson Rambler]

A small correction if I may - in a post of 24th August 2020 I stated that Bernard Laycock was not a founder member of the S7 Group.

 

That is not correct – although I was sort of half right! He was present at the inaugural meeting but resigned not long afterwards. After a lapse of many years he later re-joined.

 

In case some of you might be interested below is the flyer Ken Cottle wrote proposing a S7 society  - to which one RJE has added a comment to say that it now exists.

 

 

 

 

Crimson Rambler

 

 

[Regularity]

Probably worth removing the address details.

[Dave Hunt]

Ken hasn't lived there for many years.

 

Dave

[airnimal]

I have nearly finished the Haydock coal wagon at last, it just needs a bit of weight adding. 

What to do next ?

 

[Regularity]

32 minutes ago, airnimal said:

I have nearly finished the Haydock coal wagon at last, it just needs a bit of weight adding. 

What to do next ?

Share with us how you got the wood looking so natural?

[airnimal]

There isn't any secret to my painting of the interior woodwork. I just give it a couple of coats of any pale cream paint and when it's completely dry I brush on some dark weathering powders. The paint I used on this wagon is Citadel Kislev Flesh from the Games Workshop. I polish some of the planks with a cotton bud to remove any excess powder before I used some Black ink applied with an old fashion nib to fill in between the planks. The Black line is quite easy to do because the nib just follows the scored line like a ruler. 

[Poggy1165]

On 20/11/2020 at 14:04, airnimal said:

I've tickled up the lettering a small amount but I don't think I can get it any better than it is.

I have still to add the axleboxes and springs as well as doing the lettering on the other side. The weather has not been kind for spraying outdoors and I do not have a spray booth inside my workshop.

The absence of a tare weight is because there isn't any on the photographs I have. I don't know why but it is something I have come across before on wagons from the Wigan area. 

I still have the interior to finish and modify the wheels.

 

My modelling may be soon be getting a reduction in hours spent shortly because my better half has decided after 12 months of soul searching to finally retire at Christmas. I have already been given notice on what is expected of me regarding days out / more grandchildren time / shopping / decorating and any number of other things.  I have put in an objection with her employers but I have been overruled. 

 

 

The Haydock Coal wagon is the best model I have ever seen of one of their vehicles - by some way - and the only one I have ever seen in the correct pre-group livery.

 

Haydock Colliery (Richard Evans and Co) is particularly interesting to me, as they had an extensive railway system of their own (linked to the LNWR and GC) and a whole fleet of fairly intriguing locos. Some of which they built themselves.

 

From memory - I would need to check to be 100% - this is the company that had running powers over parts of the GC St Helens branch, not least because the said branch "took over" parts of the colliery railway. Amazingly, at one time they  worked a daily coal train from Ashton-in-Makerfield to St Helens over the GC. Presumably with a GC brake at the back

[airnimal]

Poggy 1165,  I am pleased you like the Haydock wagon. The livery details were given to me by Tony Watts who wrote the book on Ince wagon works. I am surprised about the statement that most models being wrong for the pre-grouping period. I hadn't noticed many models of these wagons before but that's probably because I wasn't looking for them.

 

The next project is a couple of G.W.R 2 plank opens using Cooper Craft plastic parts for the bodies and Ambis etched W-irons  for the running stuff. Here where the fun begins because I am trying to build them as intended. I purchased the etched parts a few years ago at an exhibition but they do not come with instructions referring buyers to there web site. I got the page up on the 7mm wagon bits but they only show the folding of the inner carriers and nothing else unless I have missed something. 

I have removed the centre section from one side which I think is correct and folded one of the inner carriers up ( I broke it down into individual pieces to solder it together ) and have obtained a good sliding fit. 

But what now ? Nothing about using a wire to spring them with or how much side play when the bearing are in and the other side is folded up. 

 

I do not have a floor because I only bought the sides and the ends and being unfamiliar with these Ambis parts I have a feeling they may be going back in the box unless our good readers can help. 

 

Has anybody used these Ambis w-irons successfully as intended because when I did my L&Y wagons using there etched parts I converted them to a Slaters type of springing. 

 

[Western Star]

Mike,

 

I am guessing a bit here because I have neither used this product nor seen the details of the etch parts.  My take on what I can see goes as:-

 

1/ The axleguards have a removable section between the legs...  either use as is for a fixed bearing or remove for a sprung bearing.  Removal of the section between the legs leaves a slot for the bearing and carrier hence the axleguards can be bent up to fit the wagon without worry about fitting the bearings.

 

2/ The bearing seems to fold up so as to create a slot in the sides, the carrier then fits into the axleguard - presumably there is a bridle / keep provided to stop the bearing carrier dropping out of the axleguard.

 

3/ As the bearing carriers are removable then you can fit "bearing+carrier+wheelset+carrier+bearing" into the axleguard unit and estimate the side play of the wheelset.  I use the S7 wagon wheels from Slaters and I minimise side play by using washers between the top-hat of the bearing and the inner face of the bearing carrier.

 

4/ Springing...  not obvious...  the bearing carrier has a half etch fold at the opposite end to the bearing hole.  Suppose that the top section of the carrier is folded to 90 degrees...  and bears against a wire which is suspended in the slots at either end of an axleguard...  that arrangement is going to give suspension to the wheelset.

 

5/ I am building currently a Southwark Bridge Models brass etch kit for the GWR P7 Ballast Hopper and the suspension system is similar to what I have described above albeit the wire is crimped into "fingers" on the carrier.  There seems to be nothing to stop the carrier dropping down other than the bridle/keep.  The instructions suggest using guitar wire and recommends something in the range 10 to 14 thou.

 

5/ Big question, what keeps the suspension wire in place for this design?

 

regards, Graham

Edited November 27, 2020 by Western Star

[icw]

Alan Austin (Ambis) is very friendly and helpful: just give him a ring and I'm sure he'll be more than willing to explain.

[Adam]

Graham - what retains the wheel set in this case is the wire spring - it’s attached by friction to the carrier and is held by the holes in - this particular instance - one of the hopper support ribs and another that’s folded out from the back of the solebar. The bridle has - or should have - no particular part to play, much like the real thing.

 

I can’t say how well that works in 7mm but it seems to work fine in 4mm where the basic concept is more or less standard for wagon springing.

 

Adam

[Western Star]

4 hours ago, Adam said:

Graham - what retains the wheel set in this case is the wire spring - it’s attached by friction to the carrier and is held by the holes in - this particular instance - one of the hopper support ribs and another that’s folded out from the back of the solebar. The bridle has - or should have - no particular part to play, much like the real thing.

 

I can’t say how well that works in 7mm but it seems to work fine in 4mm where the basic concept is more or less standard for wagon springing.

 

Adam

Adam @Adam,

 

I recognise what you are saying, just not in this context - ought your post to have been in another topic (P7 given your mention of a hopper)?

[airnimal]

I am not sure how I am going to proceed with the Ambis W-irons. I am sure in the hands of most people they work perfectly well but I don't think I fall into that category. 

So I will crack on with the body work and here again I fall short when building kits and using ready made parts. I have plenty of history making a pile of scrap out of perfectly good kits and bits that others can make it very good models.

I have found the article by Barry Norman on detailing these 3 plank opens in MRJ No 206. 

Barry changes the buffers on one of the wagons by removing the base plates and replacing with with PECO turned bodies and new bases.

I turned up 4 round bases from hard clear Perspex and dipped the bodies in Birchwood Casey metal black. The plank lines have been cut in with an Olfa cutter as I would when scratch building.

 

I find building kits or modifying ready made parts takes twice as long as starting from scratch. This is obviously a mental thing so I don't know why I still persevere with it and end up being frustrated.