S7 scratch building

[airnimal]

Thanks Chris,  I am struggling with these lamp brackets. I think the reason is I don't have the right material for the job. I think I need the T section to be another. 1mm taller. 

Had a go with the piece I soldered up just awhile ago and cut a section to see if it was what I am after. 

It is but.....

I still think the idea is sound but with the wrong material I am going around in circles. 

[airnimal]

Clearly these last attempts are not tall enough and a few thou to wide. So not having a suitable milled brass L section I need to find a alternative method. Fold up thin brass is possible but I want to make them in bulk so that they are all the same size and shape. 

 

So is origami a possibility ? I have managed the first fold after scoring the back and squeezing it in the vice, so I will continue and see if this is the answer. Because brass would crack at the first fold I have used nickel.

Edited February 8, 2021 by airnimal

[airnimal]

I think I have got the profile I require now after hours of trying. It still may need a bit of work with a file to narrow across one side. But at least I feel happy now I am on the right track. I just have slice off 6 all the same size.

[airnimal]

Hopefully I have got close to what I want. It's still not perfect but I am not sure how far I can go with this. Close up shots are cruel to the finish with scratches that will not be seen at normal viewing distance. 

[Caley Jim]

Mike, could you please explain to we lesser and not so particular mortal exactly what is wrong with that?

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

30 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

Mike, could you please explain to we lesser and not so particular mortal exactly what is wrong with that?

 

Jim

 

Ah, but isn't this the point at which the 2 mm finescaler goes off and does the same at 2/7 ths the size, and a working lamp too?

[Caley Jim]

45 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Ah, but isn't this the point at which the 2 mm finescaler goes off and does the same at 2/7 ths the size, and a working lamp too?

Aye!  Right!

 

Jim

[airnimal]

Jim, if it doesn't please you then there's no point in modeling. This last attempt is still not right to my eyes so I am going to have a few days off and come back to it again. You ask what it wrong,  well it's not true and straight as well as not being strong enough. I don't know a lot about Scottish  history but something about a Robert and a spider spring to mind !

 

 

[CKPR]

As someone once wrote in an article on finescale 7mm scratchbuilding in the 1970s, at least the quality of the scrap was improving.

[Dave John]

Ok, I think those lamp brackets would be a job for the blacksmiths shop. Now, I'm an electrical engineer not a blacksmith, but I have had a go in my time.  At the time that the wagon was built I think lamp brackets would be from rolled iron. Welded by heat and hammer. Way before bdms. Only as square as the anvil. 

 

In which case the slightly pock marked surface finish is to my eye perfect, old iron does look like that. 

 

Though it is your eye that matters, it looks pretty realistic to mine. 

[swampy]

10 hours ago, CKPR said:

As someone once wrote in an article on finescale 7mm scratchbuilding in the 1970s, at least the quality of the scrap was improving.

Are you thinking of the article in Model Railways with a picture of an 0-6-0 tank ( Bamburgh?) on the cover and pile of scrap parts behind?

Pete

[Caley Jim]

15 hours ago, airnimal said:

Jim, if it doesn't please you then there's no point in modeling. This last attempt is still not right to my eyes so I am going to have a few days off and come back to it again. You ask what it wrong,  well it's not true and straight as well as not being strong enough. I don't know a lot about Scottish  history but something about a Robert and a spider spring to mind !

I entirely agree with you there, Mike.  I think we can all say that we will see flaws in our own modelling that others may not and it instructive, for myself at least, to know what those perceived flaws are, so thank you.

 

A well known 2FS modeller once said that what we were in was 'impressionism', in that, in our scale, it was the overall look that was important rather then absolute precise detail.   As @Dave John has said things were not always made as pristine and perfect as we might imagine and IMHO minor imperfections can add character and realism to a model.

 

No critism of your, as always, excellent work was intended and I hope no offence taken.

 

Jim

[CKPR]

4 hours ago, swampy said:

Are you thinking of the article in Model Railways with a picture of an 0-6-0 tank ( Bamburgh?) on the cover and pile of scrap parts behind?

Pete

The very one !

[airnimal]

Jim, I didn't take you comments as criticism, I welcome all input. I am just struggling a little bit with frustration at not being able to get what I want. This lockdown doesn't help but as we are all in the same situation I mustn't moan to much. At least I have my first covid jab a couple of days ago. 

 

While I decide what to do about the lamp brackets I thought I would look at the buffers. Because I only have one photograph of my chosen van with only a partial view I am having to have an educated guess at the number of bolts holding the buffers in place. 

I used some backing plates that came with some Peco buffers but I have decided that I would make

replacements with 5 bolts rather than the 4 bolts on the Peco ones. 

So I cut out some plates from 20 thou blue plastic and drilled a hole through the centre and before mounting them on a 6 BA bolt and turning them in my mini drill. 

I used a pair of dividers to mark out the position of the bolts. I will glue them on after I remove the Peco ones. 

[airnimal]

After glueing the plastic washers on to the body I drilled through into the body for the Masterclub bolts. I am pleased I made the change. 

 

[airnimal]

I am trying to incorporate all the details I can see on the photograph of van 459.

On the bar between the W-irons there are a couple of rivets to the left of the centre which I thought I would add.

If I had planned ahead I could of pressed them out before I soldered it all together. Anyway I decided to drill the necessary holes and solder a couple of these small rivets in. These rivets are very small and expensive coming from Scale hardware in the U.S.A.  They measure 26.5 thou across the dome with a 13 thou stem. But they are beautifully made so why not push the boat out.

 

[airnimal]

I have decided to have a go at bending up the lamp brackets from brass strip. I was reluctant to do it this way because I was unsure if I would be able to get them all the same. I have done the first one to my satisfaction at last. I don't think this will be as strong as the previous method I have being  trying but without any milled brass section I don't really have an option. 

 

I have also added some more body detail and glued the buffer bodies on. 

[airnimal]

Finally I am satisfied these lamp brackets are turning out as I wanted. The ones on the end of the van are particularly pleasing with there curved mounting.  Hopefully I have now got over this hurdle and can move forward.

[airnimal]

Trust me to state that I'm satisfied with these lamp brackets. I keep going back to the drawings and photographs and trying to work out what is wrong or where I keep going wrong.  Not having clear photographs of the van and with the a couple errors on the drawing it is not very easy to make the model 100% correct. 

 

The works photograph and the drawing of No 60 has the lamp brackets with a curve in the middle to make the lamp stand proud of the body but on the drawings of the others in the book ( North Staffordshire Wagons ) there are shown to be straight.  This I think is wrong and they all should have the curve in. 

 

The photograph in Plate 22 of van 459 looks at first glance to have these brackets straight like the drawing. But I have blown the photograph up and the shadow has a curve to one side indicating a cured bracket. 

 

In the photograph in Plate 23 there is an extra bracket in the middle of the upright next to the brake handle and the one on the headstock appears to be curved backwards instead of forwards. 

Also there is 5 planks as on the latter 20 ton Van's instead of 4 planks on the 10 ton Van's above the waist at the ends.

 

Where does all this leave me ? I am still of the opinion the one I have made on the end of my modei is correct for the shape and form but I think I have made it to large and to wide. I am going to make another like this one but reduce the size and width and see how it looks. 

[kitpw]

....I envy your perseverence - it's a first rate model whatever the outcome of your wizardry on the brackets!

 

Kit PW

[Regularity]

7 hours ago, kitpw said:

I envy your perseverence

Decide on two things:

1) You really want this model;

2) You really want to model it as well and accurate as you can.

 

Only you can make those choices (and you don’t have to): no point envying someone else for so doing.

[airnimal]

I have done something I should have done when I started struggling with these lamp brackets which was seek advice from people in the know.  

So I e-mailed Mark Smith from the North Staffordshire Study Group and ask his opinion on my problem.  He came back after looking at a couple of works drawings and a better copy of plate 23 in the wagon book. 

The works drawings only show lamp brackets on the later 20 ton Van's and not on the 10 ton vans. 

These on the 20 ton van have a smaller curve than the photograph of van No 60, and he believes that these are fitted to van No 459.  I have to agree with him, so I have made another to see if it looks any better.  I have added a couple of Scalehardware hexagonal brass bolts to bolt them to the frame. He also thinks as I do that the ones on the headstock bend backwards and not forwards 

 

So I have cut more brass strip to make the other 5 brackets .

Edited February 15, 2021 by airnimal

[airnimal]

Hopefully I have finally got there. But I have said that several times already. These now look the right size and shape to me. Feel free to comment.  

[Western Star]

How is the most recent lamp iron part fixed to the body side given the position of the (previously fitted) body washer plates?

 

regards, Graham

[airnimal]

Graham, I drilled a series of holes with a very fine drill to form a slot. A quick joining of the holes with the tip of a scalpel leaves what I required to let in the bracket.  These brackets will be chemically blackened and glued in after painting.