Gerald Henriksen Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Would a narrow gauge loco ever have shunted a standard gauge wagon ( open or van)? I'm debating whether just using the ng loco on the hoist would be a better scenario, but this means dual gauge track on the middle level as well as the ground level. I would think it would only happen in cases where the standard gauge wagon had been put on narrow gauge wheels - otherwise given that most (all?) dual gauge track used one common rail the couplers / buffers wouldn't line up. Now given you are doing a special industrial type setting there is no reason that the narrow gauge loco hasn't been modified in some way to handle both narrow and standard gauge wagons - justification perhaps being that the hoist could only handle the weight of a narrow gauge loco making it impossible to get a standard gauge loco down to the middle level. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 The most probable form of motive power would be a horse, or man handled with a pinch bar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 The most probable form of motive power would be a horse, or man handled with a pinch bar. Not sure I can make a working horse... DM Dean Hill had Drewery locos running the NG line into the hillside storage bunkers, with an exchange siding to tranship from standard gauge. I just want to extend that a bit further. Gerald's comments above echo my thoughts, a loco adapted to handle both gauges of stock would be the ideal - is it just too far-fetched, even for me...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin2 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I would think it would only happen in cases where the standard gauge wagon had been put on narrow gauge wheels - otherwise given that most (all?) dual gauge track used one common rail the couplers / buffers wouldn't line up. If the Fat Controller wasn't watching and the alternative was human sweat ?? ...R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 I have seen photos in the Bylines of standard gauge engines shunting narrow gauge wagons with twin sets of buffers, but the rails were on the same centre line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 I was hoping to use the Tillig dual gauge track (rather than even think about making my own), which of course has one common rail. My other thought was to use a barrier wagon, either standard or narrow gauge, which would have suitable buffers/couplings at each end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The GWR had no problem with shunting a "proper" gauge and "narrow" gauge together. It's just a shame they were bullied into going entirely narrow gauge by the other railways! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Not sure I can make a working horse... DM Dean Hill had Drewery locos running the NG line into the hillside storage bunkers, with an exchange siding to tranship from standard gauge. I just want to extend that a bit further. Gerald's comments above echo my thoughts, a loco adapted to handle both gauges of stock would be the ideal - is it just too far-fetched, even for me...? Have look at Londonderry / Derry dockside. Irish Standard gauge locomotives moving narrow gauge vans about the riverside. The locomotives had buffers and chains, plus an offset chopper style coupler. Paul 4475 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 22, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2017 I collected the 9mm ply pieces of wood this morning, all cut neatly by a local carpenter. I just need some decent weather and a few hours peace and I can drill and screw it all together. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 27, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 27, 2017 Thoughts are now turning to the hoist. It will be a good 4ft from the operator, so accurate height control needs to be semi-automatic. Also, the hoist platform needs to be held steady whilst the loco & wagons are moved on and off. For each of the two upper levels, I'm thinking of adding a mechanical arm, preferably two ( or one two-pronged arm), which are moved out from the baseboard to locate in matching holes in the platform base. Driven by a Cobalt ( or similar) this would also break/make the hoist's power supply to prevent vertical movement. Further thoughts are how to make the sheave wheels - the ones used on Treamble are not designed to be load bearing. I also think a counter balance weight will ease the strain on the hoist motor. This should also look good as the 2nd sheave wheel will rotate in the opposite direction. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin2 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 A low-geared DC motor driving a screwed rod might be a good idea for the hoist - and just use the ropes as working ornaments. Using a screw means that everything stays exactly where it is when the motor stops. You could use micro-switches to stop at the different height positions. ...R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 27, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 27, 2017 A low-geared DC motor driving a screwed rod might be a good idea for the hoist - and just use the ropes as working ornaments. Using a screw means that everything stays exactly where it is when the motor stops. You could use micro-switches to stop at the different height positions. ...R Thanks for that idea. I've previously used a normal 12v low gears motor powered through the a DPDT switch from the track controller. This gives enough control and the ability to speed the vertical movement if required. I've since bought a more powerful motor/gearbox (from Squires, usual disclaimers) which will give me the same flexibility. Whilst a screw thread and micro-switches, as you suggest, will give an alternative method of height control, I like the idea of the hoist being rope (wire) hauled. But we'll see... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted July 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) Not sure I can make a working horse... DM Dean Hill had Drewery locos running the NG line into the hillside storage bunkers, with an exchange siding to tranship from standard gauge. I just want to extend that a bit further. Gerald's comments above echo my thoughts, a loco adapted to handle both gauges of stock would be the ideal - is it just too far-fetched, even for me...? What if it wasn't a loco? What about a lorry or tractor with narrow gauge wheels to the front/rear and standard gauge wheels to the sides.....? Even a traction engine......wow! They could be linked by chain drives..... Rob. Edited July 27, 2017 by nhy581 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 27, 2017 Stubberly, you could try pm-ing The Baron, to see how he arranged his electric hoist on Quai 87. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 31, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2017 In order to put the track down, I need to build the baseboard. In order to build the baseboard, I need to know where to cut the hole for the hoist. In order to cut the hole for the hoist, I need to know how big the cage is. In order to work out how big the cage will be, I need to know how long the train will be. In order to work out how long the train will be, I need to know how long the loco is. In order to know how long the loco will be, I need to find the chassis in the loft. In order to build the baseboard, I need to make some space in the garage. In order to make some space in the garage , I need to move some other stuff into the loft. I can see a pattern emerging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted July 31, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2017 When I'm faced with this exact same senario I just make my best guess and carry on knowing that it will be just as wrong as if I'd measured and calculated everything before hand! Saves loads of time , but not much money or mojo. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted July 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2017 In order to put the track down, I need to build the baseboard. In order to build the baseboard, I need to know where to cut the hole for the hoist. In order to cut the hole for the hoist, I need to know how big the cage is. In order to work out how big the cage will be, I need to know how long the train will be. In order to work out how long the train will be, I need to know how long the loco is. In order to know how long the loco will be, I need to find the chassis in the loft. In order to build the baseboard, I need to make some space in the garage. In order to make some space in the garage , I need to move some other stuff into the loft. I can see a pattern emerging. I think that you need to prioritise your order list into proper order, in order to make an order list ,go down the pub and order a beer or three, you will see more sense in the order list after that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2017 In order to work out the length of the train, I need to decide how to connect the NG loco to the standard gauge wagon. I'm thinking an adapted shunter's wagon would be an option - already accepted as a specialist poece of rolling stock, this would sit well, I think, in an MoD environment. Thus the train length would be longer using two full size wagons than it would using three NG armaments ( ex slate) wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 There are virtually unlimited motor/gear box combos on Ebay or Ali Baba........just make your choice. Some of the smallest motors are intended for mobile phone alarm vibrators (!!). Cost......pennies...... With a little ingenuity, I could see use as underslung wagon traction motors........... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2017 There are virtually unlimited motor/gear box combos on Ebay or Ali Baba........just make your choice. Some of the smallest motors are intended for mobile phone alarm vibrators (!!). Cost......pennies...... With a little ingenuity, I could see use as underslung wagon traction motors........... Thanks - that info could be useful for Project #3... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted August 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2017 Some of the smallest motors are intended for mobile phone alarm vibrators (!!). Crikey!.....I was impressed when one of my phones had a torch.......That's progress, I guess.... Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin2 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 With a little ingenuity, I could see use as underslung wagon traction motors........... Like in this link ...R 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2017 Like in this link ...R That is waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond my skill level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 For mixing standard gauge wagons with narrow gauge locos have a look at the transporter on the Leek & Manifold Railway... www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=dWZbZGGnE6E from about 15 seconds in.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 4, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2017 Thanks Don. That would change quite a few things, mostly the trackwork which would become simpler ( and therefore cheaper). Has this sort of wagon ever been modelled - is there an RTR version ( probably HO)? It would be different and be 'operationally interesting'. Hmmm..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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