Irish Broad Gauge Turntables

[Baldwin30762]

Hi all

 

Over the past few months I have been thinking about building an Irish Broad gauge layout as part of the bigger picture of modeling the Irish railway scene.

 

There are many stations which could be modeled, but the plan is to build a station based on a prototype.  

 

There are no shortages of stations that I would love to model, but you have to start somewhere.

 

I don’t claim to be an expert on Irish stations, but I do like certain ones.

Both Downpatrick and Strabane appeal to me one as a terminus and the other as a link station to the Irish Narrow gauge systems of Donegal.

 

Well If I happen to live long enough to get both built, then I will be a happy man.    

 

I openly admit that I prefer the Irish 3ft gauge or OOn3 stuff any day, but you get to a point where an Irish Broad gauge layout or two beckons and while I would like to do something based on say Kilarney (I think that is the one that comes in to the platform and then has to reverse out to continue it journey on), I am taken by Downpatrick as you have to almost do the same sort of operation there.

 

I have worked out a layout design which would be 10ft by 10ft at a 1200deg angle which would give a vee shape layout which just so happens to be Downpatrick to a tee, so far so good.

 

Also having also just realised that the new station building by Metcalfe could also pass for the old Downpatrick Station building also has it good points.

 

How ever and here is the problem I have I don't have any photos of the turntable at Downpatrick at the moment, but I am interested to find out what size and type it was, for the model I am hoping to use something like the CIE Woolwich 2-6-0 as the largest engine on the model so I am asking if anyone can tell me any more details about the size of the prototype turntable or would it become part of the modelers license and I could use a modified Airfix/Dapol turntable kit in its place?

 

 What do you guys think?

         

[kirley]

Colm Flanagan would have a good knowledge of the BCDR as he has modelled some parts of it.  To get some background information Google 'Remnants of the BCDR' and it should give you a link to a Facebook page and they might be able to help you on specific questions.  To model the BCDR you would need to be prepared to make your own rolling stock as there is almost nothing on the RTR market.  You would also need a very large modellers licence to run a CIE Woolwich 2-6-0 on Downpatrick metals but it's your railway.

[Baldwin30762]

Thanks Kirley,

 

Hopefully Colm will pick this up at some point, it would be a good Idea to hear from him.

 

I have just come across a photo of a jeep at the Belfast end of the line and I have also seen a few NCC ex LMS coaches at a much later date than I was thinking of modelling on the line.

 

So the question is which was longer the NCC W class 2-6-0Tender loco or the CIE Woolwich type. I didn't want to install the wrong size turntable on the layout, but at the moment it comes down to either of the two South Eastern Finescale turntable kits. 

[merlinxlili]

Thanks Kirley,

 

Hopefully Colm will pick this up at some point, it would be a good Idea to hear from him.

 

I have just come across a photo of a jeep at the Belfast end of the line and I have also seen a few NCC ex LMS coaches at a much later date than I was thinking of modelling on the line.

 

So the question is which was longer the NCC W class 2-6-0Tender loco or the CIE Woolwich type. I didn't want to install the wrong size turntable on the layout, but at the moment it comes down to either of the two South Eastern Finescale turntable kits. 

Hi,

 

I cannot find the turntable diameter in stated in my books, but taking a 4 1/2mm measurement off the 1:1000 Alan Godfrey map of Downpatrick town, this suggests the table was 40 feet in diameter. This would have accommodated all the BCDR locomotives and the NCC Jeep 2-6-4T, but not the NCC Mogul which had a total wheelbase of 45ft 9ins with the small tender. I do not have the wheelbase of the Woolwich to hand.

One point about operation at Downpatrick is that many if not all through trains Belfast-Newcastle-Belfast stopped at Downpatrick Junction, being met by a small shuttle train from Downpatrick station. You should check this on a timetable. However if you model the triangle anyway you can include this interesting operation.

[£1.38]

Had you considered the London Road Models turntable kits? They do a 42ft one

 

[Baldwin30762]

Had you considered the London Road Models turntable kits? They do a 42ft one

 

Hi thanks I hadn't to be honest, I can tell you where to get most things for the Irish Narrow gauge, but this broad gauge stuff is all a bit new to me, looking up bits and pieces and trying to find some of these suppliers takes me in to new locations which I have not heard about before.

 

I think that I will try to keep the atmosphere of Downpatrick as best as I can in the model, but just how much of the station buildings get build is another matter.

 

If and when I come to modeling a certain building and I can't find a decent photo or details of the building then I may just replace it with something as close as possible or a generic B&CDR style building if it is possible..   

Edited May 10, 2017 by Baldwin30762

[Baldwin30762]

the Southern Railway N class was 57ft and 9 5/8th of an inch in length so I reckon that it is safe to say that the Woolwich's where about the same as well..

[£1.38]

A long engine could always be turned on the triangle at Downpatrick.

 

Incidentally, at some termini they turned whole trains that way.

[colmflanagan]

I've followed this thread with some interest.

 

It really comes to how accurate you want to be, or whether you're effectively happy with capturing a "BCDR atmosphere", such as I've tried to get on the SCDR thread at "Ardglass Station".  And everyone develops their own "red lines" of what they can accept and what they can't.

 

There are some things which really give this "looks like" effects, as well as locos and stock (they are of course important!) - - e.g signal boxes, signals,  station buildings (and there are some pics of Downpatrick around in various sources) - and "location" - remember there's a hill behind the station and a cathedral and so on, which really shouts "Downpatrick"!  And then there's the bridges over the little stream that ran near the station, which was on quite boggy ground. You don;t need necessairily to have all of them, but  the more the better.

 

Personally i wouldn't be too fussed about the exact turntable length - it is true that turntables on some irish lines were pretty short - and you would need a 50' to turn the bigger Mogul type engines.

 

There certainly was a  triangle at Downpatrick, with a platform and canopy there (still exists restored by the  Downpatrick railway folk); tricky to model due to the shape the layout boards would need to be.

 

All our layouts are bound to be  compromises, and as Kirley points out, at the end of the  day "its your railway"!

 

Colm Flanagan-  

[Baldwin30762]

Thanks Colm.

 

I agree, it is more about getting the right feel for a location, there are a number of problems which I will have to face at some point, one of the them is the lack of prototype rolling stock.

 

But as it is will be part of a bigger project I feel that I can, to start with, use some converted British outline rolling stock for now such as those sold via the unpainted Dapol range, as for carriages I do have a few Triang Hornby Caledonian and mainline LMS coaches coaches which don't look to much out of place for now, but will do for now until something better comes along.

 

One thing is for sure I will need to build up some 4 and 6 wheeled stock at some point so I think a number of Ratio GWR/ LMS kits will go through the rebuilding milling at some point.

 

One item of Irish rolling stock I need to look at and that is the typical goods and cattle van, no one as far as I am aware makes model of them and besides the cattle wagon are the second most common wagon to date which makes an Irish layout unique.    

 

The BCDR had some unique Goods and Cattle vans which I do have the side drawing of from Des Coakham's Book, but if any one has any more details about them I would be please to hear from you, I think they will need to be to be made in resin.

 

It will take time to build up the true Irish railway rolling stock but at least it will be a start, I have also come across this guy http://www.provincialwagons.com/index.html as a source for some wagons.

     

One other item that I have been looking for but I can't find is an old article from the railway modeller back in the 1970's I think it was of a an Irish station that had an overal roof but the operations was unique.

 

the train would come in from one direction into the platform and would then have to reverse out of the station before it could continue on its journey, the same thing would have to happen in reverse for a train coming the other way, but for the life of me I can not recall the name or location of this station can anyone help?

 

Thanks

 

Colin   

[kirley]

The Provincial Wagons Guy is a member on this Site -leslie10646

[David Jackson]

 

the train would come in from one direction into the platform and would then have to reverse out of the station before it could continue on its journey, the same thing would have to happen in reverse for a train coming the other way, but for the life of me I can not recall the name or location of this station can anyone help?

 

 

Killarney station operates like that. Through trains have to reverse in or out.

[Baldwin30762]

Thank you David, the name came to me during the night and I was able to confirm that via the map thanks for your help, it bugs me when I have these sort of things happen.

 

That to would be a great place to model, I wonder just how many modellers in the UK would believe you, that you could have a railway station with that sort of working pattern to it.

 

Colin