Class 319 Northern - Any chance these can me manufactured in OO?

[hamish_barb]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section.

 

I'm a big class 319 fan, having taken the train back and forth from school/uni/work for over a decade now.

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a manufacturer releasing the Class 319 in First Capital Connect or Thameslink colours, however with the Class 319 now being used in the North of England under the Northern livery, could we perhaps see a Class 319?

 

Thanks

[phil-b259]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section.

 

I'm a big class 319 fan, having taken the train back and forth from school/uni/work for over a decade now.

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a manufacturer releasing the Class 319 in First Capital Connect or Thameslink colours, however with the Class 319 now being used in the North of England under the Northern livery, could we perhaps see a Class 319?

 

Thanks

 

Of course there is a chance the 319 may be manufactured in OO at some stage - but like everyone else with a wish list, effectively posing a 'I want one' request on here won't make that happen any quicker.

 

In terms of EMU candidates, its use on suburban duties in south + south east London, its use on the Brighton and Midland main lines, its use on the west London Line and up the WCML followed by the re-use in the north west England does perhaps make it an attractive choice, as does the number of liveries it can wear.

[hamish_barb]

Sorry I should have mentioned, I have only just started to get into the world of model trains. Started collecting around 3 months ago.

 

I wasn't sure how the manufacturers decide on which train to model next, therefore I wanted to find out if there was a timetable or something they followed? Or are models modelled randomly?

 

Thanks

[crompton 33]

Bratchell do a class 319 in NSE . Link http://www.bratchellmodels.com/319174.html   They do them unpainted as well .

[TheSignalEngineer]

Manufacturers will make what they think they can sell in a short time with little stock remaining on the shelves.

 

Having said that, there is a wish list poll om here each autumn last year's results here  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116458-results-the-wishlist-poll-2016/?hl=+2017%20+wish%20+list%20+poll

 

Manufacturers won't always take notice of what is top of the poll, they have other research methods as well, and also like to fit in with a theme. For example. Hornby have a Stanier and a Fowler 2-6-4T, Bachmann do a Fairburn 2-6-4T also the BR version, so the Stanier non-corridor suburban stock was a no-brainer for someone to do.

 

They will also sometimes go for the unusual or quirky especially with commissioned models like the Beattie Well Tank from Kernow or the USA Tank from Model Rail.

[njee20]

Farish have an N gauge 319 coming at some point, I suspect it'll be a couple of years still though.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Farish have an N gauge 319 coming at some point, I suspect it'll be a couple of years still though.

Apparently they are going to do 'Northern Powerhouse' in N gauge. It may be possible that Bachmann will upscale it in the future as they will have done all of the research for the Farish model, thus making more use of the cost incurred for that one.

[Adam1701D]

I produce Northern Purple vinyls to fit the Bratchell 319. Rather pleased with how they turned out.

[phil-b259]

Sorry I should have mentioned, I have only just started to get into the world of model trains. Started collecting around 3 months ago.

 

I wasn't sure how the manufacturers decide on which train to model next, therefore I wanted to find out if there was a timetable or something they followed? Or are models modelled randomly?

 

Thanks

 

While  I appreciate that you have not long got into the Hobby - the simple truth is Model manufactures work in the same way as any other manufacturer, be they making TVs or toothpaste. Hornby / Bachmann / etc are not bound by some sort of obligation to work through a set list of models. - they make what they think will sell well so as to provide the best return for shareholders. That may or may not include your favourite classes.....

 

When deciding what model to release next, manufacturers will undertake extensive, but subtle market research including reviewing suggestions sent to them direct, the contents of online forums, feedback from their dealer network, an appraisal of what would compliment their current range, any inelegance as to what their competitors might be planning (to avoid duplication), and so on.

 

As a customer wanting a specific model all you can do is keep submitting your preference to them either directly via their websites or via the wish list poll that is run yearly by volunteers to try and capture how strong the demand for various new models is.

 

The 319 does have a number of advantages over other EMUs so in time one of the big players may decide to offer them in OO. In the meantime as Crompton 33 says there is Bratachell to consider

[hamish_barb]

Thank you all for your replies, and for clearing up how manufacturers decide which train to produce next. I was under the impression that manufacturers like Hornby followed a set path, because with the example of the Class 43 HST, they have released pretty much all the liveries with their new retooled models, with even the GWR HST due out soon. Therefore I was wrongly under the impression that they followed some sort of chronological order or something.

 

I will contact Bratchell models. I've had a quick look at the website and the Class 319 is quite pricey, especially as it's unpainted and I think will require a motor on top of what I have to pay there.

 

@Captain Electra, thanks. Do you also do Class 319 First Capital Connect / Thameslink vinyls?

 

And yes, hopefully with Bachmann producing a Class 319 in N-gauge, they could possibly release a OO gauge model soon after!

[Tim R-T-C]

Traditionally multiple units, particularly electric, have been very under-represented in ready-to-run form. Only in about the last five years have Southern EMUs and modern designs appeared on the mainstream radar.

 

Given that London is the most populous area of the UK, it is strange that many units that form(ed) a mainstay of services there are completely unavailable. Similarly the lack of any tube stock in a ready-to-run form.

[NickL2008]

Traditionally multiple units, particularly electric, have been very under-represented in ready-to-run form. Only in about the last five years have Southern EMUs and modern designs appeared on the mainstream radar.

 

Given that London is the most populous area of the UK, it is strange that many units that form(ed) a mainstay of services there are completely unavailable. Similarly the lack of any tube stock in a ready-to-run form.

 

Bachmann have released the S7-S8 tube trains as used on the Metropolitan, Hammersmith & city and now the District line, but yes a lot of what sometimes are considered "mundane" passenger trains, are completely absent from the market.

 

NL

[Northmoor]

Bachmann have released the S7-S8 tube trains as used on the Metropolitan, Hammersmith & city and now the District line, but yes a lot of what sometimes are considered "mundane" passenger trains, are completely absent from the market.

 

NL

In this respect, model railways and railway preservation have a lot in common.  They both reflect what we want to remember, the enjoyable trips by train rather than the mundane commute.  Compared to Pullman carriages, there are a tiny proportion of commuter carriages preserved; likewise there have always been far more models of West Country seaside branch line termini than of suburban commuter termini.

 

However, considering the common bodyshells (with relatively minor variations, primarily to end modules) of classes 313/314/315/507/508 and 455/456/317-322, an r-t-r model could be suitable for a huge variety of geographical interest.

[Mike Storey]

Quite so - why on earth no-one has yet produced a 4SUB, probably the unit with the greatest time and geographical span of all (bar the EPB maybe), continues to amaze me.

 

I wish you well in your quest for a RTR 319!

[JDW]

...and soon, we won't even need any of those pesky overhead wires to run a 319 when Porterbrook finishes putting engines on them... :-D

[frobisher]

...and soon, we won't even need any of those pesky overhead wires to run a 319 when Porterbrook finishes putting engines on them... :-D

Never did, they're also third rail units...

[The Johnster]

Hamish, welcome to the madness, er, I mean hobby.  I'm going to assume you are working in 4mm 00 gauge as you have not specified any other...  Your only chance of getting a Northern 319 for a while seems to be the Bratchell kit, which I had not heard of until reading this, so I cannot comment on how difficult it is to assemble.  The price doesn't seem bad for a 4-car set, but I cannot see if interior detail is included.  You would be probably best advised to buy it unassembled and unpainted, and if the bodyshell is diecast or white metal you may need to solder it; soldering terrifies me and would put me off. On the other hand, a plastic kit of a prototype based on a bodyshell with bits bolted on should be fairly easy.  Painting is not a difficult skill to learn, and with a bit of practice on sacrificial models or card mockups you should be able to make an acceptable fist of it, so an assembled one with a repaint and 'Northern Powerhouse' transfers may be an option.  

 

But it is a big expense if you are not confident of being able to assemble and finish it (I wouldn't worry too much about the motor(s), a type will probably be recommended for the kit and they are not poverty-inducingly expensive).  A kit, even a fairly easy one, is time consuming and if you are a newbie you may be more concerned with setting up the layout and getting something running, in which case it might be better to put any kitbuilding off until that is nearer completion, by which time an rtr version might be available or at least pending, especially if the type enters service in South Wales for whoever takes over from Arriva, extending it's potential popularity as a model, but even if one is announced next week, it will be some time, anything up to 3 or 4 years, before it hits the shops after plenty of false alarms.  If you do decide to have a go at the kit, keep us informed; there will be plenty of advice, most of it very good advice, on the forum.  I've been at it for years, and am still learning from folks on here!

 

It is sometimes difficult to follow the logic of the way that rtr manufacturers introduce models, but they have to consider factors such as ease and cost of production, development costs, research (the forums are full of virulent criticism if the slightest thing is wrong), and the availability of manufacturing resources in China, where wage demands are driving prices inexorably upwards in a continuing trend, as well as what their marketing people tell them modellers are demanding (and modellers are very demanding!).  They will often offer pre-ordering facilities, which is a way of getting some return on their outlay before the model goes on sale, but the downside of this is that, while you'll get it as soon as it is in the UK and through distribution, and possibly avoid price increases that have occurred in the meantime, you may have a frustrating wait for the model you've paid or part paid for while production problems or shipping issues delay it.  Sourcing models from China has kept costs down and in general resulted in a high quality product, but the Chinese manufacturing system is based on a number of large firms which do not have their own manufacturing facilities and sub-contract out to smaller workshops which might be spread over a large area, and might well be sub-contracting themselves; the country is only just emerging from a cottage industry system.  It is suited to small(ish) production runs, after which they go on to do plastic mouldings for something else, which is why a model appears on the market and then disappears for another decade or so, by which time we are demanding an upgrade which slows things down again, or moaning about paying £xxx, when the previous identical production run was much better value at £xx.

 

Like I said, welcome to the hobby, er, I mean madness!

Edited May 8, 2017 by The Johnster

[SRman]

The Bratchell kits are mostly ABS plastics. They go together fairly quickly and form a strong basic body shell, using a plastic solvent for the construction. Make sure your choose a solvent that works with ABS, though; MEK doesn't. No seats are included, and finer details have to be added by the modeller to taste. The class 319s do not include a pantograph either; I used one from a Bachmann class 350/1 I converted to a class 450 using Electra Railway Graphics vinyls.

They aren't exactly cheap, but the unpainted kits can save you a bit of cash. 

I have used the Replica Railways 64' motorised chassis with 12mm wheels to motorise my class 455/8 and 319/1 units (both pre-finished in NSE liveries). I have also built a class 456 2-car unit but left it unmotorised to work with the class 455.

Hamish: if you consider buying an unpainted Bratchell kit, you could also contact Adam at Electra Railway Graphics regarding the possibility of getting overlays in the livery you want.

Just to give an idea of what the kits are like, here are a few pics of mine part-built then as running on my layout.







 

Edited May 8, 2017 by SRman

[Dan_71D]

Just been announced by Bachmann - OO gauge class 319

[royaloak]

4 minutes ago, Dan_71D said:

Just been announced by Bachmann - OO gauge class 319

Cant see anything on the website.

[woodenhead]

40 minutes ago, Dan_71D said:

Just been announced by Bachmann - OO gauge class 319

Where?

[Clive Mortimore]

The DEMU forum has a list of the "new" Bachy stuff, no 319 listed.

[AY Mod]

15 hours ago, Dan_71D said:

Just been announced by Bachmann - OO gauge class 319

 

Completely incorrect. 

[John M Upton]

A new engineering prototype of the N scale version has appeared correcting some shape errors that showed up in the first EP so I suspect that is where the crossed wires have occured.

[NickL2008]

Easy mistake to make ,the amount of times I've looked at a farish item, only to think its a Bachmann item, but upon closer inspection the signs its an N gauge model are there, but I'll use that to accredit N gauge models as i'll admit the quality over the years has certainly improved

 

NL