Brass Betsy for Pennsylvanian shortline

[bertiedog]

The cast brass chassis and other parts with paint still on them have just come out of a bath of paint stripper, and some of the paint is extremely resistant to it, having been on for perhaps 50 years!! I am washing them in chloroform and cellulose thinners, mixed, next to try to dissolve the stubborn bits! Other than that it will have to be scraped off, or a wire brush applied very gently

 

The other brass parts have cleaned up well, so a long soldering session to assemble most of the loco and tenders details. The brake cylinders will be added later on, when they arrive from the States, but steam, sand, and brake piping can be put in place first, and a bit of detailing around the Westinghouse pump.

 

Stephen.

[alastairq]

Thanks , Stephen...your skills and workmanship...not to mention knowledge, never fail to delight.....

 

I did think the Stewartstown line had taken a back seat......lovely to see it's not forgotten.

[bertiedog]

The Stewartstown boards are done, along with some basic track, it will be joined to the OO Lewes layout each to act as storage, fiddle yards for the other layout.

Stephen.

[alastairq]

and how are you feeling this day?

[bertiedog]

Er,... quite all right, I hope the enquiry was not in connection with the Chloroform!!! I have supplies for 2 stroke engine fuel along with ether, useful for removing stubborn paint and crud..........outside in the fresh air! Other than that struggling with arthritis, but that's under control now within reason.,

The powerful solvent finally removed stubborn old red paint from nookes and crannies of the main lost wax casting for the chassis. tt needs a bit of fining and fettling around the front pilot casting, and in the coupler pocket. I have a sterling silver Bob Lindsay dummy scale knuckle to fit in the socket.

The rear of the tender needs a pilot beam as well, there is nothing supplied, bar the coupling pocket that can take a Kadee or equivalent.

Stephen.

[dajt]

Great thread, looking forward to more updates to see what you make of this kit.

[bertiedog]

The main locomotive lost wax cast chassis has now been sorted , a lot of work with files to remove the casting lines on the sides, and then truing up the axle box slots in the frame. The wheels are retained by a brass keeper plate, retained to the cast chassis by screws into all ready tapped holes.

 

The Brass Betsy chassis is made of lost wax cast phosphor bronze, not actually brass, and quite hard to file. I did think of doing it in the milling machine, but the chassis is awkward to hold without damage in a machine vice. So the seams etc., were filed out, bar a small but deep groove at the back, which can be filled with epoxy filler later on before painting.

 

The driving wheels etc., and the Lindsay motor were assembled and tried under power, and it runs quite well, I suspect the loco kit may have had attention from Kemtron at some time, as I am told the earliest version of the kit had 3/32^nd axles, but this has 1/8^th inch axles, and the wheels are definitely Kemtron pattern, lost wax cast brass centres and steel tyres with a bushes centre for insulation. The outer wheel pairs are flanges, the centre pairs flangeless.

 

I an cleaning up the wheels next, and modify the side rods to have bearing bosses, and filing the connecting rods to a better finish from the cast items.

 

As the side rods are bronze, they can then be tinned with lead free solder to give a durable steel look to the items. One of the crankpins is missing and needs replacement, a hex headed screw, US thread.

 

The cast front bogie needs a new wheelset to replace the unusual nylon insulated wheel, with a nickel silver, or stainless steel pair, with one bushed with hard plastic for insulation.

 

The chassis needs attention to the side play of the driving wheels, it is far too excessive, the wheelset back to back is 14.5 mm (NMRA RP-25), but the frame is barely 12.5 mm wide, so this amount of play is too much, especially when the middle drivers are flangeless. The front and rear wheels need no more than a working clearance, as do the middle pairs.

 

The wheels are firmly fixed on the axles, and difficult to remove just to fit washers, so the best way will be pads attached to the frame axle slot's face, that will widen the frame at that point and take up the play. There are insulated washers on the axles already on the bushed side.

 

It's pretty critical the sideplay is removed from the front axle, as the clearances are minimal between the front crankpin and the piston crosshead, the original instruction sheet suggests removing the screws head!!

 

There is enough space without being that drastic, but any side play would foul the motion.The cylinder's single slide bars also have no rear support, and needs a hanger bar across the frames to act as support. Kemtron did a casting to suit, but it is no longer made, so a replacement to match the cast item will be needed. It is a tight fit as the working valve gear gets in the way, I suspect this was the reason it was left off by the designers.

 

The cast parts in the kit were made for Great Western by Bob Lindsay, who supplied the motor, but it seems the problems with accurate machining of the parts were down to Great Western, not Lindsay.

 

Narrow Gauge Type Baldwin 280, simular to Brass Betsy.

 

The original intention was to make the locomotive in two versions, one in HO 16.5mm standard gauge, and then in HO 10.5mm,(or 12mm), gauge to represent 3 foot narrow gauge. However they never made the narrow gauge version, after Kemtron bought the design from Great Western they already had a 280 H0n3 in production. These are as rare as the Brass Betsy these days.

 

All the US home market brass production, both RTR and kit was displaced by the availability of the Japanese produced RTR brass from about 1952 onwards. The Japanese made brass were cheaper, and better made than a poorly produced kit. Most kit makers in the States used brass, but it was often sand cast and poor in detail and finish. Lindsay was the first to use lost wax, but only did two or three designs before his untimely death in the early 1950's

 

Kemtron survived as they made the detailing parts even better than the Japanese, and even exported them to the makers of RTR brass.in Japan and later Korea.

 

Stephen.

[alastairq]

Thanks, Stephen.....so the chassis was perhaps meant for HO and HOn3?

[bertiedog]

I am certain the chassis is for 16.5mm in this version, the intention seems to have been to make a second casting, and supply the Kemtron wheels that they already did in the late 1940's for H0n3.

 

The thickness is too much and it is a solid casting, although you can make out the bits soldered together that make up the lost wax master part.

 

Kemtron offered some 12mm and 10.5mm gauge offerings from about 1948, along with the long forgotten 4mm to the foot range they once did, Kemtron also did 12mm TT scale, with a Dockside shunter in US TT scale, 12mm gauge.

 

Later they had a 280 Consolidation of their own design, but some say this was just adapted from a Great Western design they got when they purchased the Great Western concern. Kemtron preferred to use as much cast material as possible, finally resulting in the 260 Wabash Mogul kit in HO and O scale.

 

The proportions of the Brass Betsy loco fit H0n3 very well, but it would need new frames,and tender bogies, but everything else could be used, even the cylinders, shown suitable by Kemtron marketing the same cylinders from the Brass Betsy as H0n3 cylinders in later 1950's catalogues.

[bertiedog]

Although I have bought in some new, (old stock), lost wax brass castings for the brake cylinders, both the locomotive and the tender, on cost alone I am making the marker lights, clack valves, taps, lubricator, pipe connections etc., from scratch. They once were available from Kemtron, and may be in Precision's range, but would all add to the cost.

 

I am told that Great Western sold a super detailing pack of Kemtron lost wax parts for the locomotive just before Kemtron bought the company in 1952. After that you just bought the extras from the vast Kemtron range.

 

I have brakes shoes in brass available, although I am considering plastic due to the very tight clearances, and also some water taps for the tender in lost wax, and a nice pair of live steam injectors, ex Kemtron range.

 

Thee is a set of medium height Romford handrail knobs which closely match the Great Western offerings.

 

The already thick 1/8th turned brass boiler can be filled with solid lead, which will make the loco really quite heavy to add traction. Slow running is no problem, the Lindsay motor is a skewed slot 5 pole type and turns over at very low revs indeed, 2 rpm is possible on a good controller, and all with very little noise.

 

I am fitting tabs and runners to the inside of the cab to take slide glass window glazing, it is a pity the motor occupies the cab! At least it saves detailing the interior, the figures will cover it up quite a bit.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Progress on the Betsy build, the body near completion, adding pipes and details, sand pipes, steam to injectors, still to be added as well. Handrails to be fitted, and grab rails etc, plus bracing for the front pilot. Also the knuckle coupling lifting gear and supports bot at the front and tender rear. There is a toolbox to fit the the rear of the tender, and I am adding an air tank to the tender top. The bell requires assembly, fitting an ornate lost wax cast base. The ornate front lamp is lost wax cast, and hollow, so can have the base drilled to take an LED white lamp.

 

The side rods are prepared and true, along with connecting rods and crossheads, all lost wax castings that require a tinned finish to make it look like steel.

 

 

The rear of the tender had no pilot beam etc., at all, so a Kemtron lost wax casting has been modified to fit, narrowing it to match the tender width, the draft gear box is not fitted as yet. It greatly improves the appearance at the tender rear end.

 

 

The chassis still not quite true to the body, things need filing to adjust the centre line, and level the body fore to aft. The cylinders casting are now will tin plated rods, much better than bronze. They will be fitted with lubricator feeds and drain cocks etc.,

 

 

The cab roof needs two covers for the ventilator holes, and the dome need safety valves fitted, with wires from the whisle and fron the bell to the cab front wall.

 

All in all a high level of detailing for what is a 1948 design, all the parts are original, replacements, or contemporary Kemtron parts. Nothing like this level of detailing was offered as kits in the UK till etched kits started in the 1970's, and really it's only kit rival was Kemtron's Wabash Mogul kit, about the most detailed ever.

 

Japanese RTR began to come up to this level by the mid 1950's, and was far more detailed than the Betsy in it's standard form, but with extras as offered by Kemtron, the Betsy was as good, or better, only the poor running letting it down, due to the warped chassis as originally supplied.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Some better shots in daylight of the progress, now into making some of the finer parts from scratch to match the Kemtron parts no longer made. The rear looks much better than the basic design, and you can see the thickness of the solid brass bar lathe turned boiler, nearly an ^₁/₈^th inch thick!

Very impressive kit for 64 years old !!

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Small items being made, washout plugs, safety valves, whistle, and assembling the bell, which swings, but needs a clapper added, as per the Lindsay Sterling Silver version.The brass bell underside can be hollowed out, and a fine fuse wire loop used to retain the working bell clapper, with the wire bell support from the kit filed to a better square section, with an eyelet added for the operating rope through to the cab.

.

Marker lamps and brackets are also needed for the loco and tender corners. Original Great Western kit handrails can be used on the boiler, with grab rails supported on small Alan Gibson knobs.

 

New ones, much taller will be needed for the pilot beams for the knuckle coupling lifting bars, these will be made from scratch.on the lathe, they are parallel stems, with no ball on the top, and flat sides on a small base.

 

Also the chimney needs a base made and the interior re-drilled to extend the securing screw to allow for the extra thickness. Great Western supplied three types of chimney in the kit up to a balloon type. I am using the medium, and will fit fine mesh to the top as the spark arrester.

 

Wood floor for the tender in oak, and oak wood boards to surround the coal area to retain the coal in place, and an air tank at the rear of the tank, along with a toolbox matching the missing Kemtron type. This will have hinges and a lock added, made in the miller and engraver. Shovels and rakes etc for the tender top, buckets and re-railer blocks etc., as well.

 

The chassis still needs attention, the driven axle slots are low after straightening up and need careful filing to get it all to sit level, with all wheels on the track.evenly. It runs at the moment, but rocks on the driven middlle blind driver a bit.

After this is all sorted the side roods can be filed to shape, and coated with tin solder to give a steel finish.

 

The wheels can have a bit of the flange height removed in the lathe, they are NMRA compatible as supplied, and run on all modern track, but the flanges are a bit bigger than today's finer standards. Back to back is standard NMRA , few UK models at 64 years old would be able to run on today's track!!

 

The Central Valley trucks for the tender are exact modern standard!! and they are 1948/9 productions! The axle boxes are fully sprung, wonderfully smooth operation, and well detailed. They are Mazak rather than cast brass, I would replace with Kemtron's Fox pattern sprung bogies in lost wax brass if any turn up.

 

The CV ones are absolutely original, they are in the Great Western kit instruction parts listing. Other detailing parts are ordered for brass brake cylinders etc., both the Loco and the Tender brakes.

 

Stephen.

[alastairq]

excellent, Stephen...............I was going to ask about the tender trucks?

 

They look almost Fox pattern as is.....but they don't look like those I have found , typical of the inter-war years?

 

Sadly, although I have a box of Central Valley trucks....and some SIlver Streaks, none of them are of an arch-bar type with that transverse spring plank so typical of tender [and caboose] trucks...so my tenders make temporary use of Bettendorfs....

 

Any suggestions as to what to do with brass-rimmed drivers, to perhaps enhance pickup, amongst other things?

 

Would the use of a chemical blackener on the rims seriously degrade their electrical conductivity?

 

[i have old MDC locos, which had brass-rimmed drivers...]

[bertiedog]

Well, the Brass Betsy Locomotive drivers are not brass rimmed at all, they are mild steel, same as the Kemtron wheels of the period, 1948/9, 1950 onwards in the Kemtron catalogue.The wheel centres are lost wax brass castings, with rim insulation of the steel tyre.

 

The lead bogie wheels are strange, one blackened brass, and one white nylon!! These are being replaced with nickel silver on both sides, made on the lathe to the correct pattern from the kit.

.

Most selenium blackening of brass does not affect pickup, nor does copper carbonate. Gun black is usually selenium based.

 

The Central Valley brand tender trucks are Fox type and correct, but Kemtron lost wax brass versions would be nicer than mazak.die cast types.

 

The cast brass lost wax parts are really mostly Kemtron, only the boiler and cab are Great western, with the balamce made by Bob Lindsay, whose parts were made by Kemtron anyway.

 

After selling the loco for about 3 years Kemtron took over the Great Western operation, closed manufacture, and put the cast parts in the main Kemtron lists, some disappearing as stocks sold out, some still available.from Precision.

 

Stephen.

[Guest jonte]

Some better shots in daylight of the progress, now into making some of the finer parts from scratch to match the Kemtron parts no longer made. The rear looks much better than the basic design, and you can see the thickness of the solid brass bar lathe turned boiler, nearly an ^₁/₈^th inch thick!

Very impressive kit for 64 years old !!

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen.

 

Stunningly beautiful, Stephen. She's an absolute credit to you.

 

Jonte

[bertiedog]

 

Rear tender ladder for the Brass Betsy, in brass strip and phosphor bronze wire, there were no ladder parts in the kit, so a copy of the cast Kemtron type ladder was made, The round wire was filed square section etc., the steps fitted to the back of the ladder uprights, the parts soldered together on a small wooden jig, all parts filed to shape afterwards with fine needle files.

 

 

As fitted on the tender, has to be detachable for tender body removal. The supports for the lifting bar are medium size handrails knobs.

 

 

Of course, as soon as it was made and fitted, a vintage pressed brass ladder turned up! Tool box to make and fit behind the new ladder, made of brass to Kemtron pattern.

 

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Pattern for the tool box to fit the tender rear. The larger cast Kemtron toolbox I have spare will not fit in the space, too long and thick, and the special for the loco is no longer made by Precision..

 

Stephen.

[alastairq]

hi....splendid stuff as usual, Stephen....

 

the cast ladder explains a couple of short lengths I found ...amongst other non-descript items, in a Binkley kit box...[the kit was basically what seemed to be a block of milled wood...]...stamped-out laddering...[the backside is hollow, so to speak]...

 

Re- the tender? You mentioned earlier about wooden floor? Is this for the coal space just between loco and inside coal/log space? [i recall such detail being applied to the tender of an On30 loco a while ago...using printed weathered wood , probably from a download?]

[bertiedog]

The wood is a liner and side and end boards for the coal space, (assuming coal burning), and a front wall before the footplate area, and a planked floor to the footplate, in thin Oak strip, which I am cutting out next. It will be attached to the brass, glued onto the surface, with locating pins through the top of the tank body.

The floor planks will be superglued on to the brass and sanded to profile.(All the oak to be dark stained).

Stephen.

[alastairq]

Thanks for that, Stephen...I was wondering how 'flooring' would be arranged. I wasn't sure whether it would be 'superimposed' on a steel base on the 'prototype...or whether the whole tender floor was wood...including those parts which protrude outside the 'tank' part....especially round the rear end.

[bertiedog]

The Brass Engineer for the Brass Betsy, a lost wax casting from the States, unusual item, I still need a standing Engineer as well, the seated figure appears to be an older guy, long grey hair, and moustache,

 

[bertiedog]

And the Kemtron type lost wax brake cylinder castings, they need drilling for pipes etc., not sure if the wire is a sprue or meant to be a pipe as it goes to the connecting bar! The ends project under the trucks, they obviously cannot be connected to the trucks. A brass sheet floor has to needed to the tender to mount in place on a new centre rail between the truck bolsters.

The loco cylinders fit under the cab on the main frames, with a bell crank to turn the brake motion to lower level position to pull the brakes cross bars. The cylinders are quite small, 4mm in length, just about right size for the loco. The piston ends are forked properly, to fit to the bell cranks.

 

 

 

[bertiedog]

It seems that there once was a matching brass Engineer Driver made, by Kemtron/Precision, but the one from Wiseman was under two quid, and the the other Ebay supplier wants $30+ for the other figure!! ...so no matching figure, looks like making one, or using a plastic figure to make a lost wax version...$30 for an H0 figure, however rare, is a bit too much......

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

It looks like the "extra pipe" on the brake cylinder arm is a casting sprue, as I thought, but it does need an air tank and air valve, with the associated piping, so getting through from US Ebay seller, Wiseman, a suitable small lost wax cast brass tank and valve, which will be mounted underneath along side the brake cylinder. It is a Kemtron or Cal-scale item.

I was about to put the air reservoir tank on top of the tender, but with this older layout it would be more likely to be underneath anyway.

Plenty of other details to do in the meantime, whistles and valves etc for the loco, and fitting the bell, handrails etc., along with loco brake cylinders.

Stephen