Street running in the UK

[TomJ]

For some strange reason I have a fascination with street running trains. There's just something about a train at Weymouth Quay running along the road I find very interesting.

So other than the obvious Weymouth Quay were there any other examples in the U.K.? Especially ones that lasted into the diesel era? The only other two I can think of are the bridges at Porthmadog and Ribble steam railway. Any others.

[RANGERS]

Wisbech and Upwell was technically a street tramway. The line which served the shipyards on the North side of the Clyde and ran through Scotstoun, along Dumbarton Rd I think it was. Lowestoft, Yarmouth and Ipswich docks had stretches on the public roads. Wells (Norfolk) harbour tramway. Aberdeen docks. There must be dozens but very few will have survived to see diesels, though most if not all of these did.

[LMS2968]

Many dock areas had an element of this. Most of Liverpool's Dock Road had tracks, admittedly to one side of the road and with the Overhead Railway above, although there were places where the road and rail were pretty much entwined. The Pier Head was pretty congested.

[Reading General]

Not Uk, but may be admissable and still currently in use

[Fat Controller]

The Nevill's Dock and Railway in Llanelly (the then-current spelling) was largely either street-running on the public highway, or on short stretches of dedicated track next to it. It ran from Cille colliery, Furnace, parallel to the L&MMR, across the GWR mainline on a flat crossing at Old Castle, thence to the docks. A branch veered off the 'main line' near Bryn Terrace, then itself crossed the main line before almost heading into the centre of Llanelly to serve the gasworks and several other industries. Services lasted, steam-powered, until the late 1960s, by which time many of the industries served (steel works, tinplate mills, copper refinery and others) had closed. My great-aunt kept the Bryn Hotel, the front door of which opened on to the line.

[petethemole]

The Eastern and West docks in Southampton were linked by rail into the 70s and at one time the Royal Pier was also served, the rail link involved street running. http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/southampton_docks/index28.shtml

[bennyboy]

Although most of it was technically street side running, there was the Trafford Park Estate railway.

 

http://railthing.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/trafford-park.html

[eastglosmog]

Southampton Docks certainly had street running - lasted into the diesel era as well.  Boat trains to the Ocean Terminal and much freight traffic.  It was absolute heaven to a ship and train mad child - I spent hours there!

[Andy Kirkham]

The narrow gauge Welshpool & Llanfair had a famous street-running section http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-camwell-personal-film-no-62-welshpool-raven-square-railway-1963/ (the BFI player seems not to work on Chrome)

 

[Edit] On reflection I suppose it was really a series of level crossings rather than running along the street. But it was magic all the same.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

[Andy Kirkham]

The Nevill's Dock and Railway in Llanelly (the then-current spelling) was largely either street-running on the public highway, or on short stretches of dedicated track next to it. It ran from Cille colliery, Furnace, parallel to the L&MMR, across the GWR mainline on a flat crossing at Old Castle, thence to the docks. A branch veered off the 'main line' near Bryn Terrace, then itself crossed the main line before almost heading into the centre of Llanelly to serve the gasworks and several other industries. Services lasted, steam-powered, until the late 1960s, by which time many of the industries served (steel works, tinplate mills, copper refinery and others) had closed. My great-aunt kept the Bryn Hotel, the front door of which opened on to the line.

Like this?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/5976855873/in/faves-52554553@N06/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/13975902010/

Edited May 15, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

[stewartingram]

Blackpool tramway along the prom (and with proper street running inplaces, along with the now closed street tramways in the town) doesn't really count. But during the the promenade rebuild (not sure of the date but think of maybe 100 years ago?), they laid rails down for construction trains to use, with industrial steam locos hauling wagons. I have some wonderful pictures in one of my many books somewhere.

 

Stewart

[EddieB]

Street running along North Quay from Yarmouth Vauxhall continued into the diesel era.  A while back, there was a magnificent photo as a frontispiece in Railway Magazine - a Drewry shunter emerging from the gap between houses with a Birds Eye train.  Somethings similar (but less dramatic) can be found here: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/great_yarmouth_herring_industry/index.shtml

[Zomboid]

There was the RAE railway in Farnborough, though that doesn't seem to have lasted to the diesel era.

 

And the OP may enjoy the street running in the USA & Canada thread in the American section of the forum.

[Fat Controller]

Like this?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/5976855873/in/faves-52554553@N06/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/13975902010/

Exactly like that, Andy. The Shocvan would have come from 'The Stamping', latterly 'Salter's Spring Balances'; I remember going there with my father in the late 1960s, and seeing all the machines driven by leather belts from a (steam-driven) overhead shaft.

The ND&R served both as a link between individual factories, for semi-finished product, and as a link between the various factories and the GWR. The last vestiges were a short branch, starting near the eastern end of Llanelly station and serving the detinning works of Bachelor-Robinson. This survived into the 1980s. I think the second photo was taken where this line crossed New Dock Road.

I wonder who the Morrison electric lorry in the background belonged to?

[Nearholmer]

Are street tramways allowed, or not, in this discussion?

 

I ask, because some of them had very "Railway-like" characteristics, including locomotive-hauled goods trains operating over various bits.

 

In case not: bits of the Deptford Wharf branch; the Newhaven west quay tramway (which was a railway in the street, not a street tramway!).

 

Kevin

Edited May 15, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Pacific231G]

The Eastern and West docks in Southampton were linked by rail into the 70s and at one time the Royal Pier was also served, the rail link involved street running. http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/southampton_docks/index28.shtml

I worked in South Western House next to the old Southampton Terminus station from about 1979 and I can remember in the first few months I was there seeing short goods workings behind 0-4-0 diesel shunters using the link. I wish now I'd paid more attention to it at the time but my recollection is that most of the inset track was where it crossed the various entrances to Town Quay and Royal Pier. For some of its length the line was on its own ballasted formation separated from the road by a low single rail fence. II don't know if it was technically a tramway or on private land owned by the docks board. I think the track onto Royal Pier was still in place but disused.  There are some photos of it about five or six years earlier here

http://railthing.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/southampton-docks-1973.html

 

There used to be a railway that was completely street running along the promenade at Dover between the Western railway docks and what was then the Admiralty Harbour but now the site of the main Eastern RoRo docks. It mostly carried coal and it must have really offended the terribly respectable guest house owners to have steam locos chuffing along the prom and spoiling their gentility.  It's very clear in this photo from the 1920s

https://doverhistorian.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/th-western-docks-1920s-before-promanade-pier-was-dismantled-courtesy-of-dover-library.jpg

The line finally closed in 1964 by which time it was at least partly operated by diesels but by then traffic had declined.

There's a lengthy note about it and the nearby military railways here https://www.flickr.com/photos/jelltecks/15224231033

[Pacific231G]

 

 

Are street tramways allowed, or not, in this discussion?

 

I ask, because some of them had very "Railway-like" characteristics, including locomotive-hauled goods trains operating over various bits.

 

In case not: bits of the Deptford Wharf branch; the Newhaven west quay tramway (which was a railway in the street, not a street tramway!).

 

Kevin

Hi Kevin

I think street running railways were always far less common in Britain, where railways were always regarded as nasty dangerous things that needed to be fenced off like a field of bulls, than almost anywhere else.

The distinction between a tramway and a railway has always been a rather vague one and at one time rural France and particularly Belgium were littered with railway lines running along the side of roads and sometimes down the middle of them. In France, the local railways were the responsibility of local authorities (Départements - counties more or less)  and since they also owned the local "D" roads very little land had to be bought if they decided to save costs that way. The downside of that was very slow trains (typically not more than 15km/h or between nine and ten MPH) These lines certainly did  carry goods and in general were probably more important for that than for passengers. I can't remember what proporton of France's fifteen thousand miles of mostly metre gauge "départemental" railways were tramways (defined as a railway with more than 2/3 its length running along public roads) It wasn't a majority but it was a fairly high proportion. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Andy Kirkham]

 France's fifteen thousand miles of mostly metre gauge "départemental" railways 

Wow! Is there anything on the Web about these? A comprehensive map? A quick Google suggests that there is little apart from present-day heritage lines and famous systems like the Vivarais and Reseau Breton

[Edwin_m]

Hauling anything with railway wheels on tramway grooved rail requires a slightly narrower track gauge so the flanges of the wagons run in the grooves.  Glasgow tramways had this gauge narrowing and wagons were hauled to and from various docks, and it may have existed elsewhere too.  I believe the wagon haulage on the Blackpool tramway was only ever on the off-street sections. 

 

Another railway in the street was between Altrincham station and the gasworks along Moss Lane. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Edwin_m

[Killian keane]

The WCPR had a road section, I think the private railway at ICI may have had one also because all their engines had bells fitted

[John_Hughes]

There was a surprising amount of in-road trackage in the Black Country.

 

When I married my Black Country lass in 1965 there was still a lot of it - unused - in Oldbury, and no doubt there had been much more at West Brom and other places.

[Nearholmer]

AK

 

There is a very good introductory book by WJK Davies.

 

There is also a book by Baddeley, called something like "The Continental Steam Tram", which is a good primer.

 

Once you've identified a particular line, there is more detailed coverage in French books, but you'd need a huge shelf to accommodate them all; I've concentrated on sub-metric lines.

 

K

Edited May 16, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Enterprisingwestern]

Colwick Industrial Estate Railway in Nottingham.

 

Mike.

[stadman]

Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore

[phil_sutters]

Newhaven's Victorian swing bridge was shared between road and rail and short lengths of the approach roads had street running. The West Quay branch, which it connected to the extensive dockyard network, closed in 1963 and the shared bridge was replaced by the current road bridge in 1974. Terriers seem to have been the motive power for most of the West Quay branch's life. Although I have not looked for photos of the branch, the 1938 OS map shows areas at the southern end of the branch, which look as though they would have had road running.