Street running in the UK

[phil_sutters]

A lot of the inset tracks in industrial estates and indeed dockyards, whether commercial or naval*, aren't really 'street running' in the sense that the railway trains don't interact with general traffic on public highways. Street running railways would seem to have more in common with tramways, especially in the steam tram era, than the lines within industrial or military complexes. I note the comments above about the different wheel and track profiles, but in terms of the interaction with standard road traffic, they are similar. I have two volumes of 'A History of the British Steam Tram' by David Gladwin, which are part of a fascinating 6-volume compendium of information, photographs and masses of facsimiles of legal notices, advertisements, technical specifications etc. I bought them locally for about £20 for the two. I looked on line to see whether the other volumes were available - some were - at about £60 a volume. I was amazed at how many, in some cases quite small, towns had steam tram lines. Very rarely is there any mention of goods being transported. I guess that the difference in wheel/track geometry stopped railway wagons being used along tramlines, in most cases.

 

as at Chatham where parts were inset and parts were sleepered. Portsmouth Historic Dockyard has a few token stretches of inset track still and both have a few items of rolling stock.

 

[eastglosmog]

BGJ,

 

'Coarse' I admit to; it was my grandfather who was obsessed by golf, not me.

 

And, you've sealed it now; as soon as I can find my Wantage Tramway books, I will start the virtual redevelopment of Wantage town centre, including ripping down all those crumbling old buildings in the High Street, and replacing them with something nice and (c1960) modern. Early concept for New Wantage illustrated below.

 

K

If you try that, King Alfred will come down from his plinth and burn you instead of the cakes!

[Coryton]

Welsh Highland - or is this just an elongated level crossing?

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=2GXbVtvR&id=D404F464D2886684861078EE6297A612961191AA&thid=OIP.2GXbVtvRvkiYFwBrkpcJjAEsDH&q=welsh+highland+railway+porthmadog&simid=608008710193088207&selectedindex=2&mode=overlay&first=1

 

Since it has level crossing style lights to stop road traffic when in use, I don't think it really counts as street running.

 

Still fun to watch.

 

The strangest street running I've seen was in the US, where there were level crossing style barriers to stop traffic from side roads when a train was coming through, but traffic could freely run along the road that was shared with the trains (which went quite a bit faster than I would have expected, too).

[Neil]

Burneside tramway serving Croppers paper mills had both street and roadside sections.

[Martino]

Basingstoke and Alton Light Railway? Certainly ran alongside roads for quite some distance, and some of the route is still visible along the A339 - or at least was a few years back.

[clecklewyke]

I'm sure most docks had tracks let into the road, Hull had lots around Humber, Railway and Princes Docks.

 

There are some pictures here

 

Ian

[pb_devon]

To add to Phil's comments in #76 about Naval Dockyards.  Devonport Dockyard has rail tracks set into the main road through the site, which are in active use in connection with submarine refits. The two Clayton industrial diesels haul various specialist wagons across the system.  Admittedly not public, but quite heavily trafficed roads.

[The Johnster]

I'm sure most docks had tracks let into the road, Hull had lots around Humber, Railway and Princes Docks.

 

There are some pictures here

 

Ian

 

Plenty of these on Cardiff docks as well, but not proper street running in my view as docks, and their roads, are not open to the public (although you could wander onto and off most of them back in the day without hinderance).  I think street running implies trains mixing it with general road traffic and pedestrians.

[Porcy Mane]

For what was probably the most intensive narrow gauge street running in the UK (if not the world) check out the Ashington Coal Companies "network". 

 

Link to the 1932 OS map.

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/427830/587669/12/100709

 

It was used to deliver coal to miners cottages but it's primary task was the removal of night soil.

 

P

[Judge Dread]

I'm sure most docks had tracks let into the road, Hull had lots around Humber, Railway and Princes Docks.

 

There are some pictures here

 

Ian

The Queen's dock also until it was filled in.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Burneside tramway serving Croppers paper mills had both street and roadside sections.

 That's the baby, runs down the lane alongside the churchyard wall, past ye olde country cottage with the roses around the door...

 

...The strangest street running I've seen was in the US, where there were level crossing style barriers to stop traffic from side roads when a train was coming through, but traffic could freely run along the road that was shared with the trains (which went quite a bit faster than I would have expected, too).

 Stopping in the City of Uncertainty, Coupafourche County, in pouring rain and the locals have shot up every sign in sight; and while eating lunch seeing a train roll down the street and hoping you have parked the car 'appropriately'...

[Charlie586]

To go back to Wantage tramway, I've always thought the section where it crosses the canal at Grove bridge would be a great small layout as it's quite unique being a road tramway crossing over a canal. Not a great deal of operating interest for that short section though.

 

If the photographer of this photo has been slightly further back it would have been an even better photo http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/wantage-tramway-company-steam-tram-engine-no-4-built-by-news-photo/90772017#wantage-tramway-company-steam-tram-engine-no-4-built-by-henry-hughes-picture-id90772017

[nick_bastable]

plenty of examples from Dover

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nick

[Porcy Mane]

Alerted by this photo on Flickr

Seeing the sights by Stephen Dowle, on Flickr

 

Makes me fancy having an explore of Athens.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/rYChtqzGgiG2

 

P

Edited May 18, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[john new]

plenty of examples from Dover

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nick

 

Looks like the rear tank behind 31027 has just exploded! 

[Pacific231G]

plenty of examples from Dover

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nick

 

The seaside landladies must have just loved 31027 !!

I'd always udnerstood that it was mostly coal the Dover line carried but it was clearly far more mixed than that so presumably as well as the RN. there were commercial docks at the Eastern end that weren't just shipping out coal from the Tilmanstone bucket conveyor. 

Interesting that there appears not to be a man with a red flag though that was usually required. Even the Dieppe Maritime branch had that even though most of it ran along a quayside rather than the adjoining street (unlike the Weymouth Harbour Tramway that was on the street)

 

I've just remembered the Campbeltown and Macrihanish, a 27inch gauge railway that crossed the Mull of Kintyre. The line itself was on its own right of way but, though the passenger station was technically on the quay, only a surveyor would know that as it wasn't separated from the street and was built with inset track. https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=33469

http://www.singscript.plus.com/daviddrewmusic/Images/cmlr.jpg

 

Nigel Macmillan - a great friend of P.D. Hancock-  built a very nice model of this line in O 16.5 and I got to see it at a Gauge O Guild show in Telford some years ago.  It's a line I'd have loved to have seen in the flesh as the combination of quayside, narrow gauge railway and street mist have been marvellous.

[nick_bastable]

 coal was delivered by the ropeway

 

 

there where big oil tanks located at the Eastern Docks  the last picture appears to be hauling tankers through the smoke

[jamie92208]

coal was delivered by the ropeway

 

 

there where big oil tanks located at the Eastern Docks  the last picture appears to be hauling tankers through the smoke

That's a fascinating bit of film. I know it's a bit off topic but was it totally gravity powered like the one that's still working near Lancaster bringing clay down to a brickworks. The loads have enough weight to keep the whole thing running without external power.

 

Jamie

[Nearholmer]

The very end of the Hamworthy Branch, in Dorset, beyond where the line now finishes, included street running at the approach to the Harbour, and there was a long street run on the other, Poole town, side of the channel, to the quaysides. I think both get mixed-up with Weymouth in some photo captions.

 

In this picture Poole Quay is in the foreground, and the tracks took to the streets in the distance to get to the station. Hamworthy is on the left bank, but the street section there was out of view, on the far side of what is a headland. http://www.francisfrith.com/poole/poole-the-harbour-c1955_p72160

 

There are photos of diesels on both lines.

 

Kevin

Edited May 18, 2017 by Nearholmer

[nick_bastable]

from the Sussex history forum

 

The Ropeway commenced operation in February 1930 but was not used during the war and was allowed to fall into disrepair, finally being dismantled in 1949-50. Today all entrances are sealed and access doesn't appear to be possible. Below are technical details from the manufacturer Ropeways Ltd, now UshaBRECO (India).

Capacity 120 tons (imperial) per hour 
Material Coal 
ROPEWAY IN 2 SECTIONS   
Length Section 1 6030 yards 
Length Section 2 6730 yards 
DIFFERENCE IN LEVELS    
Section 1 20 yards against 
Section 2 62 yards in favour 
Speed of rope 130 yards per minute 
Rope circumference 4" 
Rope breaking strain 57.6 tons (imperial) 
Load in each bucket 14.25 cwts 
Number of buckets 566 
Time between buckets 21.4 seconds 
Motor h.p Section 1-93Bhp Section 2-62 Bhp 
Max gradient of line 1:3 

 

 

this early view shows the oil tanks anyone who knows the Eastern Docks   just a few changes over the years 

 

 

 

 

Nick

[john new]

Nearholmer posted

 

The very end of the Hamworthy Branch, in Dorset, beyond where the line now finishes, included street running at the approach to the Harbour, and there was a long street run on the other, Poole town, side of the channel, to the quaysides. I think both get mixed-up with Weymouth in some photo captions.

 

Not been down to view the Hamworthy remains for a while.  This was on the adjacent to the road line a few years ago. (My photo but on the SLS website)  I guess the road along what could be the baseboard front, thin-ness to the track plan, with tall buildings and a boat loading backdrop gives Hamworthy a Prototype for everything thread option too.

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by john new

[ForestPines]

I vaguely recall someone from the Ffestiniog telling me that the original plan for the Cross-Town Rail Link had been for the Britannia Bridge stretch to be a street-running tramway, but this was scotched when somebody realised that tramway drivers, nowadays, all require PCV driving licences. So instead, legally, it's an oddly-shaped level crossing.

[grahame]

 something nice and (c1960) modern. Early concept for New Wantage illustrated below.

 

K

 

That's the Whitgift shopping centre in Croydon. I used to have the odd lunchtime pint in the Forum pub before they knocked it down when modernising the shopping centre and put a roof on it.

 

G.

[Nearholmer]

It is.

 

Beatties somewhere over the road, probably lunar house in the background etc we used to go elsewhere for a pint, down at the market, or the red deer (stag?).

 

Has it all been demolished? (I hope) I haven't been into the "town" for about thirty years.

 

K

[Coryton]

I vaguely recall someone from the Ffestiniog telling me that the original plan for the Cross-Town Rail Link had been for the Britannia Bridge stretch to be a street-running tramway, but this was scotched when somebody realised that tramway drivers, nowadays, all require PCV driving licences. So instead, legally, it's an oddly-shaped level crossing.

 

Given that going in one direction the trains are (briefly) going against the traffic flow, keeping road traffic out when a train is around is probably a good move.

 

Besides, if you're nearby but not paying attention the sounders give a useful reminder that if you don't move quickly you'll miss an interesting sight...