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Any wheel any size!


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Having designed and got 3D printed some Manning Wardle wheels, which I designed as a bespoke design, I came up with the idea of using Fusion 360 to create any spoked wheel. I created the changeable parameters such as diameter crank throw number of spokes if the crank pin was between or on the spokes, hub width. and the wheel is created in a fraction of a second ready to be 3D printed.

 

It only took around half an hour to create this set up and would need proper prototype drawings to get the correct spoke profile flare etc, but the idea seems to work in principle, I know you need to get tyres but this may solve the problem of wheels you can't get.

 

David 

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This is an excellent project I have made a couple of wheels on fusion 360 it can be a challenge.

But this process simple put in the parameters and BAM the perfect wheel.

Do you have the files for this or a tutorial to make this as this would make my modelling much easier

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The wheels do need the correct spoke profile and flare designing in , plus a few other tweeks but the design and programme seems to work fine as it saves drawing each wheel from scratch, things like bevel rims is another option I will pop in to the paramiters. Things like webs between the the crank spokes it will be quicker to do as an add on.

 

I don't plan to go into the wheel manufactre game but could supply a file for most wheels to get printed if needed via shapeways or other provider. The rims would need to be sourced does any one have a CNC lathe to make these?

 

Another option is to print in wax and cast in brass.

 

It was quite simple to design up in Fusion 360 adding all the variables as I went along.

 

David

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  • 11 months later...

I'm just starting out learning the basics of F360. How do you go from creating a 3D CAD drawing to producing the G-code needed for CNC control? Is there bridging software needed, or can this be done directly through F360?

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I wonder if Exactoscale may in due course be persuaded to sell spare tyres to support this approach? Could relieve the pressure for investment in hard tooling to expand the Exactoscale range.

 

The Nim.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Another option is to print in wax and cast in brass.

Both Shapeways and iMaterialize can do this with rather excellent results. Price and quality is almost identical.

 

Here is a picture of an 0-scale center (outer diameter around 20 mm):

 

SW_stjerne_03_w.jpg

 

All prescision surfaces needs machining, of course. Just like the real thing. The touch surface looks quite like the sand cast surface of the prototype, me thinks.

 

A truly parametric Fusion360 model for drivers would be the holy grail of small series production of wheels. Combined with CNC machined tyres It will be possible to produce wheels in series of one. What a time to be a modeller!

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bespoke design, I came up with the idea of using Fusion 360 to create any spoked wheel.

 

I see what you did there :)

 

If you splash out on a CAD program like TurboCAD it's not too difficult to add all the fillets etc., although in the smaller scales it might not be worth the effort.

 

What (I think) would be nice would be a set of "spokeless" metal wheels in various sizes that would accommodate inserts printed in the likes of Shapeways FUD (or whatever it's called now). The metal wheels would actually have spokes to connect the rims to the hubs, but there might only be three spokes, and they would not be straight. They would be curved to minimize the amount of light they obscured from the cosmetic spokes. I'll probably have to draw a picture.

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I've created something similar myself, using Shapeways FUD pressed into Alan Gibson tyres.

The model the wheels are destined for still hasn't run in anger so I can't answer whether a 3D print can take the forces and stresses generated by a motor and con-rod. 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130587-gibson-5ft-wheel-rimstyres-has-the-design-changed/

DSCF3738

 

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  • 3 months later...

I have thought of this many times.  The problem is getting the wheel center true to the tire.  If you don't do this the engine will wobble as it goes down the track.  To do this you must turn and an axle in a lathe and then cut threads on the axle to hold the wheel in place.  Mount the wheel without removing the axle from the lathe.  You then cut the tire.  The wheel will then be perfect.  I am sure the plastic spokes can handle normal use during train running.  The problem is the torque on the spokes during the truing of the tire.  I would be interested in any ideas on this. 

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I have thought of this many times.  The problem is getting the wheel center true to the tire.  If you don't do this the engine will wobble as it goes down the track.  To do this you must turn and an axle in a lathe and then cut threads on the axle to hold the wheel in place.  Mount the wheel without removing the axle from the lathe.  You then cut the tire.  The wheel will then be perfect.  I am sure the plastic spokes can handle normal use during train running.  The problem is the torque on the spokes during the truing of the tire.  I would be interested in any ideas on this. 

 

You might make a small faceplate with lots of small diameter tapped holes. I have one somewhere. I used it to bore and true the tires of fragile metal wheels. Alternatively, you could print a "negative" faceplate which has protrusions that fit between the spokes of the wheel you need to turn.

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You might make a small faceplate with lots of small diameter tapped holes. I have one somewhere. I used it to bore and true the tires of fragile metal wheels. Alternatively, you could print a "negative" faceplate which has protrusions that fit between the spokes of the wheel you need to turn.

The negative faceplate is brilliant.  With light cuts on the tire and a sharp tool it just might all hold together.  I know that PLA is very tough stuff.

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11 spoke wheel centres for the Hornby Peckett might be of interest.

16 spoke centres for the Hornby H Class too.

 

...not forgetting the old favourites:

 

- large boss 6'2" 20-spoke for BR Standards 6/7/8

 

- large boss 5'0" 15-spoke for BR 9F

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...not forgetting the old favourites:

 

- large boss 6'2" 20-spoke for BR Standards 6/7/8

 

- large boss 5'0" 15-spoke for BR 9F

 

The Exactoscale representatives at Scaleforum recorded my wish for these, plus the WD. I also floated the idea of crowdfunding tooling for these additional designs. I was surprised to be told that the limiting issue was tyres rather than mouldings, since CNC tyres had to be ordered in large quantities, as I assumed the CNC tool setting would be much simpler and quicker than traditional methods. Len Newman had told me some time ago that the profile was generated rather than formed. Still, if listing bare tyres additionally were to generate more sales, that would help soak up the batches. It was intimated that the delayed reintroduction of Exactoscale loco wheels resulted from experience of putting them into service, rather than commercial considerations.

 

The Nim.

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  • 2 months later...

Very impressive David. I imagine the software behind this took a lot of work to perfect. Are you planning to get any wheels actually printed in the near future? I would be very interested in seeing close up photos of the printed wheel centres. I am fortunate in that I have a lathe and should be able to turn up my own tyres if your wheel centres prove to be of sufficient quality and strength in 4mm scale and so I am very keen to see how these turn out.

Congratulations,

Frank

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Likewise! This is really impressive and has huge potential. Is there capability within your generator t cater for less ‘standard’ designs, such as the double bossed design that Manning Wardle quite often used?

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I will drop back on to do a full wheel design programme soon, but what shape are spokes are they oval or retagular in shape with radiused corners? a few drawings would help if I am going to draw it up correctly. 

 

I think from memory that the spokes were generally oval but I haven't found a drawing to help with that yet.  Below is an an extract from a Dubs GA drawing showing a section through a  4'-9" driving wheel which may help with the shape of the spokes in the other plane.

 

section.jpg.

Edited by asmay2002
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