Buckjumper Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Demolition of Great Eastern signal boxes - Hertford branch by buckjumper original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:14 am With the news filtering through on the GERS egroup that the remaining boxes on the Hertford East branch are to be demolished this weekend (October 4/5th), I thought might be an idea to go and take a few final photographs, so yesterday morning I took #1 son to the remaining boxes at Hertford, Ware and St. Margarets. In 1986 I made friends with two of the signalmen on the branch and was invited into Ware and St. Margarets' boxes on many evenings to pick their brains, tinkle the block bells, throw a few levers, and work the level crossing gates (push button by then), which led to an invite to spend a day with an Inspector to see the signal box registers in the district checked and signed, and later I received an invite to go and push some buttons at Kings Cross Power Box. Great fun for a 15 year old! St. Margarets was always my favourite box on the branch, for a start it was a proper Great Eastern box with a lovely ambience, especially on a dark evening, but it was also the junction for the old Buntingford branch which had begun my interest in matters GER, and the row of spare levers in the frame was a constant and tangible reminder of busier days for the signalmen. Ware box, a 1960s replacement, despite it's modern aspect, still had a cosy atmosphere, and I have some regrets that I never got to visit Hertford box. Hertford. Hertford Station box (for there were two boxes in the vicinity up until the 1930s) dates from 1888 and is an early example of the Type 7 box, introduced in 1886. Over 90% of these Type 7 boxes (built up to the early 1920s) were of timber construction, with the majority of those built up to 1888 having brick chimneys. Those built by McKenzie & Holland up to 1890 had decorated barge boards. The box is 11' 4" wide and 26' long, and up until the 1930s had a 36 lever frame, extended to 45 levers when Hertford Junction box was closed. Ware Ware box came into operation on, I think, 24th January 1960 replacing the GER Type 4 Saxby & Farmer box located at the other end of the station which was demolished to make room for a platform extension to take 8 car multiple units on electrification of the branch. It was fitted with McKenzie & Holland No17A apparatus and also controlled the level crossing. St. Margarets The platform-mounted box at St. Margarets was a McKenzie & Holland Type 7, probably built, I think, slightly later than Hertford (possibly 1889-90) as it had a stovepipe instead of a chimney, though retained the decorative bargeboards. It had a 56 lever frame, and controlled the level crossing, and was one of the first in the country to have traffic lights installed. Any ideas why these two lengths of bullhead are fixed into the base? Did the frame partly rest on them? Edit: sp and info. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Pete-Harvey on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:28 am Thanks for posting these Photos Adrian most useful. Pete __________________________________________ Comment posted by Colin on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:46 pm Nice one Adrian, I'm working in Ware next Weds (8th), so I'd better nip along to the station for a last look! __________________________________________ Comment posted by Easterner on Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:18 am Sad about the demolition - thanks for the pictures. __________________________________________ Comment posted by pointstaken on Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:38 am Easterner wrote: Sad about the demolition - thanks for the pictures. Same feeling. I know we must move on, but I think sometimes we leave a less attractive landscape when some of these older buildings are demolished. Modern buildings are built more for utilitarian purposes than to enhance the landscape, sadly. Dennis __________________________________________ Comment posted by Gloriousnse on Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:23 pm Ware is interesting, especially in the way the footbridge has been built "around" it - quite unusual. I like the sunshades as well. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:47 pm An update. I passed both Hertford and Ware boxes today (a very slight detour to my destination ) just to see if they had gone, but no, both were still standing. This evening I was just surfing the net while looking after #2 daughter and found this rather intriguing document. If you can't be bothered to click the link, it's a planning application to East Herts Council which appears to indicate the box is listed, and requests permission to dismantle it for reconstruction at a new location. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Easterner on Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:45 am Well, I see we've got until 24th October to make any comments. Have we got any comments? __________________________________________ Comment posted by multivac on Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:01 pm Anyone know what is happening with the box at Enfield Town? __________________________________________ Comment posted by Gra on Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:49 pm buckjumper wrote: An update. I passed both Hertford and Ware boxes today (a very slight detour to my destination ) just to see if they had gone, but no, both were still standing. This evening I was just surfing the net while looking after #2 daughter and found this rather intriguing document. If you can't be bothered to click the link, it's a planning application to East Herts Council which appears to indicate the box is listed, and requests permission to dismantle it for reconstruction at a new location. Thats right I am sure East Station Signal Box is listed. Does that mean that someone has bought the box for preservation? If so who? __________________________________________ Comment posted by Billywindsock on Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:04 pm If I had a window in my workshop/loft, I would be able to see Ware signal box when I'm modelling. I don't like like the box, but I do like the station. I also like the run from Ware to Hertford East across the meads and I will often take the train and take much longer than a quick trip in the car when I go to Hertford. It is odd to see other peoples' photographs of places and views you know well. I have often driven around the back of Hertford East and stood by the fence and signal box waiting for a 317 to come in and leave. I like the O gauge Happisburgh layout, mainly because of the Hertford East Station model, it is super. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Gra on Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:14 pm Billywindsock wrote: If I had a window in my workshop/loft, I would be able to see Ware signal box when I'm modelling. I don't like like the box, but I do like the station. Perhaps it is time you fitted a Velux window. I fitted two a few years back, one either side of the apex. Makes for a much better working environment even if I don't have a station to look out at. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Billywindsock on Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:27 pm I have planned for 2 windows in my loft since we moved in - 4 years ago. Having saved the hundreds of pounds to buy and fit them, twice, each time something came up which needed more urgent attention, (the last time, I was on the roof looking at where and how to fit said windows and found out our soffits, barge boards and gutters were about to join me on the ground - had to be replaced.) I have a grand total of ??344 in the 'save for windows' jar. I have an appointment to get my eyes tested on the 15th November. My last new pair of glasses cost ??312. I doubt if they have got any cheaper. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Gra on Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:36 pm I don't recall the windows costing that much but then I did fit them myself. Cutting a damn great hole in a perfectly sound roof can be a bit nerveracking though __________________________________________ Comment posted by Billywindsock on Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:38 pm The Ware and Hertford boxes are still in place, no demolition as of today, 9th November. Has there been a revised timetable for demolition? __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:55 am Network Rail says the [Hertford East] signal box is structurally unsafe and needs to be dismantled [and] has submitted an application to East Herts Council to move the redundant signal box and relocate it to a new site in Epping. Source: http://www.hertfords...mercury.co.uk/h ... ?ID=353014 __________________________________________ Comment posted by Billywindsock on Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:19 am There is a new sign by the Amwell crossing, you can see it in the bottom left corner. The road will be closed from 01:00 Saturday 10th Jan, until 04:00 on Monday 12th. I'm guessing that the box is due to be demolished. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Billywindsock on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:21 pm Last weekend there was work on the track at the crossing. This weekend the box at Ware was demolished. Roof off, top half on the way out. Sunday morning, all gone. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:18 am Thanks Billy. Sad to see it demolished at last, but quite inevitable. I detoured through Hertford and Ware on the way home from the St. Albans exhibition last weekend and saw the roadblock, but the box was still standing. I've been musing on the atmosphere in there on a cold misty night twenty years ago - absolutely magic. I'm only sorry I have no photos to record my visits back then __________________________________________ Comment posted by cshearring on Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:28 pm I am grieving As a Hertford lad these are icons of my past. I spent many a day whilst aunties were shopping stood at Ware crossing. Strange though it looks a lot smaller in the photos than I recall - but then that was 30/40 years ago Still they will be putting it back soon when NR star getting sued for not having supervision of crossings probably by someone who jumped the red light - I am only half jesting __________________________________________ Comment posted by EHertsGER on Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:25 pm Oh, the Hertford Branch...<sigh>...where it all started I guess. And yes, from St Margarets there was the Buntingford Branch - now the scene of my modeling efforts. So if anyone is interested or can contribute I'll be happy to share. I'm running all periods from 1900 to 1964 so the bench is busy! Current stock includes the 125 DMU (the last set to run on the branch - yes I was a passenger!) chopped from a LIMA 117 and running on Bill Bedford underframe (pics if anyone is interested), E22 (LRM ex Rice), 'Little Sharpie' (Peter K and yes still available), BR CLass 15 (D8237 - finished just as Heljan announced theirs so will buy one of those too to make D 8213), GER 4-wheel (Peter K) and 6-wheel (D&S) coaches, Freight stock (GER) is mostly D&S with a few Jidenco and Peter K, modern freight stock Bachmann as is coaching stock. LNER period is not yet addressed but plenty of COMET and Bachmann/Hornby/Parkside to come. Locomotives to come include J15s (Alan Gibson - almost ready and five ordered!), F4/5/6 (GER/LNER liveries). All in P4 to form the stock for a model of Widford due to be laid down in 2010... Love to hear more from Buntingford modellers! In the mean time, I do miss Ware though...happy days and a long way from New York (where all this is happening) Also some Wisbech & Upwell bits and pieces for the fun of it, including the 04 from Airfix/Impetus/Branchlines. Nice model (pics too if you'd like). __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Hertford box remained intact on a visit to the station last week. This interesting document has come to light, which reveals that Hertford box is destined for the Epping and Ongar Light Railway. I thought paragraph two to be particularly encouraging: The [contract for the] de-construction and removal of the signal box...shall include detailed specifications of the dismantling and transportation method together with details of the restoration, repair and refurbishment of the weatherboard skeletal frame, the staircase, veranda, the base brick plinth with edging bricks and the full chimney and stack....to ensure the historic and architectural character, preservation and long term sustainability of the signal box is preserved and protected in accordance with, blah blah etc. I'm assuming the destination will be Ongar itself as the original box, of the same type and date (albeit Hertford box is a little taller), was demolished by LT in the early 80s. The E&O are doing a marvellous job with the box at North Weald, and I very much hope all goes well with this project too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 5, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2009 The E&O are doing a marvellous job with the box at North Weald, and I very much hope all goes well with this project too. Always nice to hear that a box is to be preserved although it's key that the structure is erected quickly to prevent loss of interest and the pieces lying around, rotting away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Completely agree Dave. The document implies that the listed status demands it can't be dismantled and removed from the current site until a contract detailing the plan for full restoration is presented to and agreed by the Local Planning Authority. A key condition by the LPA is that it must be fully restored at the new site within two years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Hertford East box was still there the other week when i was there doing a quick job just next to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium guspaul Posted November 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2018 St Margarets signal box still standing as of today. And it's available to rent! https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/property-and-retail/st-margarets-station-hertfordshire-former-signal-box Anyone want to start a model railway club in a signal box?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapoint Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I live not too many miles from st Margrets. There was talk of a preservation group who was going to restore this box but this was some years back and as nothing happened I assume it was just talk or nobody was interested . Since closure it has just been allowed to rot which is pity as it would make an ideal location for a club house as there are no step stairs to climb unlike Bishops Stortford , the fate of this box is also unclear ?. So if a club was to be formed ( We really need one in this area )the cost could be steep first restoration and conversion which would not be cheap after that comes Electric & water bills . It looks like Greater Anglia might charge business rates as well . So where would all the money come from I suspect subs would need to be steep. Anyone care to comment ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2019 Hertford East box is on the move - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/17327506.new-signal-box-for-wensleydale-railway/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Hertford East box is on the move - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/17327506.new-signal-box-for-wensleydale-railway/ Seems like a visit is warranted before the box is dismantled and heads north. (Hoping that it won't be gone before I can get there). On checking, I see I have some pictures taken in March 1977, when the signal box was still in use. Here's a couple of them. On that occasion, my aim was to photograph stations and structures on the Hertford East branch (but sadly I don't appear to have any of the signal box at Ware). Notwithstanding I did take some views of trains at Hertford East. Finally, although Google Streetview shows that the signal box remains viewable from surrounding roads, back then it could be observed from the car park/former goods yard. Hey - here's my trusty old Ford Escort! (Not quite Ivo Peters and his Bentley). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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