Brush 200HP DE - Judith Edge kit-build

[Ruston]

Evening all,

 

I had planned to be building a 16-inch Barclay but the less said about that the better. Instead I have pulled from the stash a 200HP Brush/Beyer Peacock diseasel.

 

I was pleased to see this loco produced as a kit as they are unusual in being outside-framed and are also quite "cute". I remember seeing two of the last three of these in the wild when they were at United Engineerin Steels at Aldwarke and I plan to finish the model in the overall yellow/black stripes that they carried at Aldwarke and their previous home of Parkgate works, also in Rotherham.

 

One of these does still exist in captivity at the Middleton Railway. It was from the Steel Company of Wales and carried their red livery with wasp stripe ends but, sadly, now carries a British Railways number and livery.

 

Anyway, progess so far.

The inner frame with all spacers fitted and the knife edge and swinging arms for the rocking axle compensation.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ruston

[Arthur]

 

Good start Dave, my pair are almost complete, currently at the priming stage, and I've been photographing them as they progress. Still awaiting the wheels to complete the chassis'.

 

One question about yours. How have you pivoted the swinging arms? It looks in the photo that there is a pivot wire soldered across the frames and that the arms are soldered to the outer ends of that wire. Clearly, that wouldn't allow them to swing so I'm just wondering how it works? On mine each arm is soldered to it's own pivot pin.

 

It'll be interesting to compare notes on the builds.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Good start Dave, my pair are almost complete, currently at the priming stage, and I've been photographing them as they progress. Still awaiting the wheels to complete the chassis'.

 

One question about yours. How have you pivoted the swinging arms? It looks in the photo that there is a pivot wire soldered across the frames and that the arms are soldered to the outer ends of that wire. Clearly, that wouldn't allow them to swing so I'm just wondering how it works? On mine each arm is soldered to it's own pivot pin.

 

It'll be interesting to compare notes on the builds.

 

The first line gives hope to a build article appearing hereabouts Arthur?

 

Mike.

[Arthur]

 

That's the plan Mike.

 

Dave and I exchanged pm's on the subject when we first received the kits and I said I'd write up my build.

 

My plan was, and still is, to complete the models so that I can divide the build over five or six posts with a finish date given up front.

 

Slightly delayed by waiting for the Gibson wheels, I expect them this coming week, so I'll hopefully start posting in a day or so.

 

Anyway, let me not hijack Dave's thread any further.

 

.

[BrushVeteran]

I've also got two of these to build and as I 'm a relative novice at brass kit construction I'm sure that I'm going to find this thread very informative. I hope to finish one as D2999 and the other as D9998.

[Ruston]

Good start Dave, my pair are almost complete, currently at the priming stage, and I've been photographing them as they progress. Still awaiting the wheels to complete the chassis'.

 

One question about yours. How have you pivoted the swinging arms? It looks in the photo that there is a pivot wire soldered across the frames and that the arms are soldered to the outer ends of that wire. Clearly, that wouldn't allow them to swing so I'm just wondering how it works? On mine each arm is soldered to it's own pivot pin.

 

It'll be interesting to compare notes on the builds.

Hi Arthur,

 

I made two tiny washer plates and soldered them onto the outsides of the arms, after greasing the pivots so as to prevent any leakage of solder through the hole from locking the arms up.

 

One thing that I have done, which isn't entirely by the instructions, it to open out the holes in the frame plates at the swinging arm end. The holes as they come are sized to take the bearings for those who want to build the frame without compensation but the holes in the swinging arms are the same size. So the bearings need to be fitted in the swinging arms. Both sets of holes mean you then would need to put the bearings on inside out and then file them down a lot. I felt it was easier just to open the holes out to give room for the up and down movement of the arms. The ride height appears to be set by the knife edge, so opening them out won't change this, I hope...

[Arthur]

 

I hope so too Dave as I've also opened out the frame bearing holes! Seriously, I've done the same before and it works just fine.

 

Thanks for the explanation, I see how it works now.

 

.

[Michael Edge]

Hi Arthur,

 

I made two tiny washer plates and soldered them onto the outsides of the arms, after greasing the pivots so as to prevent any leakage of solder through the hole from locking the arms up.

 

One thing that I have done, which isn't entirely by the instructions, it to open out the holes in the frame plates at the swinging arm end. The holes as they come are sized to take the bearings for those who want to build the frame without compensation but the holes in the swinging arms are the same size. So the bearings need to be fitted in the swinging arms. Both sets of holes mean you then would need to put the bearings on inside out and then file them down a lot. I felt it was easier just to open the holes out to give room for the up and down movement of the arms. The ride height appears to be set by the knife edge, so opening them out won't change this, I hope...

 

The bearings are intended to be soldered to the inside faces of the arms, not through them. The holes in the arms are etched at 1/8th, the holes in the frames are larger to take the bearings in a rigid assembly, the difference in size gives easily enough movement for compensation - most other compensation arrangements allow far too much up and down movement.

[Ruston]

The bearings are intended to be soldered to the inside faces of the arms, not through them. The holes in the arms are etched at 1/8th, the holes in the frames are larger to take the bearings in a rigid assembly, the difference in size gives easily enough movement for compensation - most other compensation arrangements allow far too much up and down movement.

I don't understand what you mean by the bearings being soldered to the inside faces and not being through them. I can't imagine how that works, unless the arms are meant to be on the inside of the inner frame?

[Adam]

I don't understand what you mean by the bearings being soldered to the inside faces and not being through them. I can't imagine how that works, unless the arms are meant to be on the inside of the inner frame?

 

That's certainly how it works on the outside-framed JE kit I've built (Thomas Hill 0-6-0). The arrangement works quite well on that, though I recall that I added a spacer tube to keep the arms parallel and the allow the pivot - I replaced the knife edge - to rest on that tube. Personal preference, and one that created more work...

 

Adam

[Arthur]

On inside framed locomotives, the Yorkshire DE2 for example, the swinging arms are fitted within the frames because, of course, there is no such arm outside the real frames. They need to be hidden on the model.

 

On the Brush, with the models cosmetic outer frames, they hide the swinging arms wherever they are fitted. Because I've previously mounted them between the frames I've done the same with my Brush models.

 

You can see the arrangement in this photo from the DE2 build I did for the Black Country Blues project.

 

 

The tops of the bearings were soldered to the arms and they are swinging down just to show them clearly. Once the axle is through the frames holes, and through the bearings on the arms, the whole lot sits together nicely.

 

.

[Ruston]

The running plate and outer frames are now all soldered together. I have fitted the cab steps but should have left them off at this stage, according to the intructions. They say to fit parts 43 (corner plates) and leave the steps off until later but the 43 that I saw was what turned out to be the steps, so I folded them up and fitted them. Only later did I see the other parts numbered 43. This means that the corner plates are missing from the front end but it's too much hassle to remove the steps to fit them now. They would be mostly hidden by the steps anyway.

 

 

 

 

Putting the jacking points together was very fiddly but it's all improving my soldering skills as everything has been done with the iron on this and the other 4mm locos that I have built recently. The resistance soldering unit is better for 7mm but in 4mm it's just too clumsy.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ruston

[Arthur]

 

Interesting comment about the resistance soldering unit for 4mm work, Dave. I've not got one but have always planned to, believing that it would help with fiddly jobs like those lifting brackets. Perhaps not?

 

You are right, part 43, that corner bracket, would be barely visible on the finished loco.

 

.

[Ruston]

Actually, Arthur, it would probably be OK if the carbon rod was cut to a fine point and if I had some decent solder cream. In the past I have used the 188 deg. cream that comes in a syringe, from Hobby Holidays, at about £18. It is very good stuff but tends to harden in the tube if left for a long period, even when you think you've capped the end of the hypodermic properly.

 

I had used up a tube and wanted to buy some more but the last time I saw him at a show he didn't have any in stock. Instead I bought two small syringes at £4 each, from Eileen's and it is a load of rubbish! Unlike the Hobby Holidays stuff, it spatters all over the work piece and also creates a lot more smoke. That in itself wouldn't be so bad if the soldered joints it makes were reliable but they aren't. It's obviously cheap for a eason and is best avoided!

Edited June 5, 2017 by Ruston

[Enterprisingwestern]

Agree about the fine point part, I've got about half a dozen different profiles on my RSU rods.

I couldn't get on with the solder cream, either overambitious emission or, as you say, goes off in the syringe, so I tin all parts first then zap them, I find it works far better for me.

 

Mike.

 

Edited to replace heejackerlation with emission.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Enterprisingwestern

[Gordon A]

I have found that a pencil sharpener is the best tool for getting a nice point on an RSU carbon rod.

 

I tend to use a fine tip of a broach or a cocktail stick to apply solder cream with the power output of the unit suitable adjusted to the temperature of solder and how big a lump of metal that is being soldered.

 

Gordon A

[Arthur]

 

Edited to replace heejackerlation with emission.

I enjoy my kit building too but gotta say Mike, it's never been that good!

 

.

[Ruston]

This evening I have soldered on all the nuts for holding both the inner and outer frames together, and the cab/bonnet baseplate to the running plate. The solder cream did come in handy for painting around the window apertures and for holding the beading in place. A quick skim round with the iron melted the cream to solder the beading in place.

 

And at that I called it a day. The next thing to do, before fitting the beading on the cab back, will be to use the cab back as a template for cutting some clear plastic for glazing.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ruston

[Ruston]

I have found a picture of one of these locos in a book. I can't reproduce the whole picture due to forum copyright rules but one interesting thing is the shape of the cab rear windows, a shape that isn't provided for in the kit.

 

The loco is one of the BSC Parkgate works fleet.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ruston

[Arthur]

Yes, I'd noticed that myself Dave. If you look in that copy of Bylines a couple of months back, you can see that the Renishaw fleet had the same positioning. They show up clearly in that very dark photo looking down at the loco shed.

 

I found a rather blurred image of one of those supplied to Skopje in steelworks in Yugoslavia and that had the light centrally positioned over the door.

 

.Edit: Bylines May 2017, page 282 top.

.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Arthur

[Ruston]

Other differences that I have noticed are the raditor grill position. The Renishaw locos (or No.23 at least, also in the same Bylines) had the grille mounted at mid height but the SCoW loco, at Orb works had it low down. Both of these are kit options but I wonder what the Parkgate locos were like in this respect.

 

The cab side windows on the ScoW loco have square corners with a bright aluminium frame (picture in the Irwell Press South Wales 2 book) but the Parkgate ones have radiused corners and appear to be held in by black rubber seals..

 

Cab progress.

Putting in the side panels and louvres on the engine compartment etch.

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ruston

[Michael Edge]

The Parkgate locos had the radiator grille in the higher position - it may be that BT91 was the only one with the lower mounting but I don't have all that many photos of these. If you are looking at SCoW locos remember that most of these are the bigger 300hp ones, not this one, nearly all the 200hp locos had rubber seal windows.

The kit was based on measurements of BT91 at Middleton and Brush drawings for D2999 - from what you have pointed out earlier I will have to etch some alternative parts for the cab back and windows on the Parkgate locos.

[Enterprisingwestern]

the Parkgate ones have radiused corners and appear to be held in by black rubber seals..

 

 

 

Has Mike done these as a resin casting or a fold up etch?

 

MIke.

[Ruston]

The Parkgate locos had the radiator grille in the higher position - it may be that BT91 was the only one with the lower mounting but I don't have all that many photos of these. If you are looking at SCoW locos remember that most of these are the bigger 300hp ones, not this one, nearly all the 200hp locos had rubber seal windows.

The kit was based on measurements of BT91 at Middleton and Brush drawings for D2999 - from what you have pointed out earlier I will have to etch some alternative parts for the cab back and windows on the Parkgate locos.

Hi Mike,

 

When I said the SCoW loco I meant the one at Middleton (BT91). When that arrived there it was still in its red SCoW livery, with wasp stripes on the front of the engine compartment and cab rear. It had the low level radiator aperture but I can't remember what the windows were like. The same loco is shown in the book I referred to when still at Orb works and in the photo has cab windows with what appear to be squared-off corners and aluminium frame (on the RH side that is shown anyway).

 

Folding up diesel bonnets to the correct profile is one of the parts of kitbuilding that I find great difficulty getting right but this time I have managed it with the bottom of the bonnet being flat with the running plate, so no need to hide the gap with oil cans on this one!

 

The radiator grille is not yet fitted because I'm considering making one up. The supplied etch is not a mesh, i.e. is not see through as it should be and is on other loco kits, such as on the 88DS. This isn't a faulty part but is something to do with the thickness of the metal and the etching process, as Mike has told me.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ruston

[Michael Edge]

The side windows on BT91 are not the original ones, I don't know when they were altered.