kirtleypete Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Having bought a model of an oil burning 141R, our new loco shed layout is going to need facilities for fueling loco's. I've been trying to find pictures of SNCF tank wagons used to transport the oil fuel, but all I can come up with are wagons in private owner liveries such as the 0 gauge Brawa models. Did the SNCF have their own wagons, or was the oil transported to loco depots in branded wagons in the colours of the oil companies? Peter Edited June 13, 2017 by kirtleypete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted June 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2017 SNCF certainly had its own tank wagons - many were still the post war (WW1 that is) - TP bogie wagons, brought over by the US and not returned to the States. Subsequent builds by the pre-nationalisation companies were somewhat different but tended to follow broadly that basic design. However I would think that losses during WW2 would have been heavy - targeted bombing of refineries, marsalling yards and the approriation by the Axis forces as they retreated. Livery on the ones I have seen was plain black - so from a model producers' view perhaps rather uninteresting compared with a brightly coloured private owner one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 It might be better to have one like that Andy, probably pretty weathered looking. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted June 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2017 This is a snap of TPs http://www.tvnp.fr/PFF/?p=4410 4 wheel effort part way down the page http://www.maugesetbocage.com/mortagne/Chambretaud-en-1940-des-documents-d-archives-inedits_a38.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) When I were a lad I can remember seeing American WW2 tank wagons at depots when travelling across France, such as http://www.tvnp.fr/PFF/?p=10787 and this Iranian version of a WD one http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/iranrailway/e20626f81 There are photos of these in one of the Russell GWR wagon books. Admittedly looking at that French website I was possibly seeing a good number of WW1 tanks without realising it. This 1967 photo shows a 4 wheel tank behind the diesel in a plain livery. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e2baa3e56 Paul Edited June 13, 2017 by hmrspaul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 I've painted my two Brawa wagons, one in plain weathered grey/black and one keeping the Locamat livery as they were an oil firm. We only need a couple to service the loco refueling plant. Peter 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Hi Peter, SNCF uses its own tank wagons for internal service. No brand. No private owners. Only SNCF markings. Most of the wagons for the 50's and 60's were USA 1918 tank cars with Arch Bar bogies. There was some USA-TC big tanks with Bettendorf bogies and 2 domes. (Without the "Simotra" logo. The lettering for locomotives fuel tank wagons were a little different than those for private owners. They write a big "MT" on the tank "Matériel et Traction" However, it's possible to use the Brawa 2-axle tanks. But no brand or builder plate (ex: Simotra, etc.). I hope it helps you my friend. Edited June 14, 2017 by JAMO 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I've permit me to modify your photo Peter 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 There was "141R fuel" in a short period in the North of France (région 2) but mostly they are located in South East of France: The Méditerrannée. So you maybe have to change your lettering: "SNCF 2" in "SNCF 5" and "Dépôt de Miramas" or "Marseille" etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I've permit me to modify your photo Peter Brawa 1 MT.jpg That is a wonderful bit of weathering. I always found it odd that the stock the Americans supplied post WW1 was bogie stock, yet the equivalent WW2 stock was largely 4-wheel. I think the last of the TP stock has gone from main-line service, but examples have survived as waste-oil storage and so on. The ones used today are similar to this:- http://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/87-sncf-france/796-799/i-bLctGFW/A , though still carrying the MT etc branding. I don't think I've ever seen a private-owner tank at a depot or fuelling point in France. Locomat are a hire/leasing firm, much like VTG; they still exist, but now specialise in construction plant, rather than railway stock. Edited June 14, 2017 by Fat Controller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Now (and from a long time) it's not "MT" but "T" only. No private owner fuel tank wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) USA provided bogie tank wagons (USA 1918 model, incorrectly called TP - but most of us say TP). As "standard"type the USA supplied flats, gondolas, tank, vans. All have bogies. US cars are mostly bogie wagons. Germany provided 2-axle "Armistice" wagons for "war damages"... Fleischmann in HO or OSM in O scal have released several models (with or without brake "outhouse"). Here O scale OSM kits in Caltex and Esso brands. Peter's MT Brawa wagons can be realistic for a more "modern" period (60's). Why not... Edited June 14, 2017 by JAMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Today, USA 1918 wagons don't run on the system. They can't. Too old... Some ran until the 80's. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted June 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2017 That is a wonderful bit of weathering. I always found it odd that the stock the Americans supplied post WW1 was bogie stock, yet the equivalent WW2 stock was largely 4-wheel. I think the last of the TP stock has gone from main-line service, but examples have survived as waste-oil storage and so on. I wonder if the difference is because in WW1 the wagons were delivered directly to France (with its bigger loading gauge) whereas in WW2 many of the wagons (at least in the first phase) were delivered to the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Interesting - I'll make some alterations. We've got to use four wheeled wagons, bogie ones won't fit in the fiddle yard with these big engines. Thanks for your help everyone, Peter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Today, USA 1918 wagons don't run on the system. They can't. Too old... Some ran until the 80's. There was an example of a TP tank in internal use at La Plaine depot, Paris, into the late 1990s, and probably later. It wouldn't have been allowed to travel, as the addition of a platform had rendered it hors gabarit. There was a similar vehicle at Miramas. Tergnier wagon repair works has some TP flat wagons that are used to move materials around the site. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 I've changed my two wagons - that should be enough to keep our 141R's topped up, Peter 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 That's nice Peter! It's realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I just did a web search for "wagon a mazout depot SNCF" and it picked up a ten year old (!) thread on just this subject from the Loco Revue forum: http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12681&hilit=fuel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi Peter, SNCF uses its own tank wagons for internal service. No brand. No private owners. Only SNCF markings. Most of the wagons for the 50's and 60's were USA 1918 tank cars with Arch Bar bogies. There was some USA-TC big tanks with Bettendorf bogies and 2 domes. (Without the "Simotra" logo. The lettering for locomotives fuel tank wagons were a little different than those for private owners. They write a big "MT" on the tank "Matériel et Traction" However, it's possible to use the Brawa 2-axle tanks. But no brand or builder plate (ex: Simotra, etc.). I hope it helps you my friend. These are pics that make yanks smile. Rivets tanks were obsolete by the 60's, arch bar trucks were restricted from mainline/interchange service decades earlier! This might be why there are so few of these tank cars preserved, 10 or 12 across the country is my guess. I have only seen 2, both were stationary storage for industries. Great to see them in such good shape 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 Built to last!Peter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 And some have Bettendorf or similar trucks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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