DJH Model Kits Advice

[Mallard60022]

I think Tony Wright updated the Instructions for the DJH A1? IIRC they are now easier to follow. If IDRC then apologies. Finding a DJH A1 in 4mm may not be so easy these days.

SEFC (South Eastern Finecast) kits are worth a look.

Phil

[RBAGE]

If anyone wants a SE Finescale A1 kit at a knock down price, give me a shout. Any reasonable offer accepted.

 

I'm happy to run a Bachmann.

[SteelShadow104]

Ok so I finally got the kit in and started prepping.

My only problem now is that the solder does not want to work with me. I tried to practice on a scrap piece of brass before I messed with the kit. I cleaned the brass with steel wool, l put down some flux and got the iron at 600F. Then I set the tip right by the joint to let the brass heat up, I put the solder right next to it and that's it... nothing happens. The solder does not melt no matter how long I let the iron sit or how close I get to it. I tried liquid and paste flux, tried various temps and nothing works. I am using 60/40 solder. By themselves, the iron does melt the flux and the solder, but when they come together its as if the flux is water and prevents the solder from melting at all.  I have been trying this various times with no success, please help me.

Edited July 4, 2017 by SteelShadow104

[Scottish Modeller]

This is a DJH Kit chassis? They used to be quite thick. You might need at least a 50W iron and a chunky bit? Also you need about 400*C (you seem to be doing a bit more than that, but your iron is probably not powerful enough by the sound of it). Nice clean Brass? I mean GF Brushed to a shine.

Phil

Hi Phil,

 

Looks like the poster has taken a bit of the earlier advice and not started with the DJH A1 - Good call!

 

Photos show a Comet coach kit? (see attached)

 

Building Coaches the Comet Way2.pdf

 

Whilst this is a better choice for a first kit build - It is still too complicated really.

 

As per the previous advice - better ideaw would have been an etched brass wagon or van to get your skills and knowledge established.

 

Steel Shadow - Have you read the pamhlet from Comet about building their kits?

 

If not - I recommend you do!

 

If you have - then you have a differnt problem which needs more investigation.

 

From what you said about the tools you have/are using, you should be able to solder the parts without a problem.

 

I'm with Phil on this - 50w Iron at full temperature, liquid and paste type flux and good old lead solder.

 

I sometimes have to use the 75w iron when either the material is thick or there are multiple layers soldered together.

 

Thanks

[SteelShadow104]

Hi Phil,

 

Looks like the poster has taken a bit of the earlier advice and not started with the DJH A1 - Good call!

 

Photos show a Comet coach kit? (see attached)

 

Building Coaches the Comet Way2.pdf

 

Whilst this is a better choice for a first kit build - It is still too complicated really.

 

As per the previous advice - better ideaw would have been an etched brass wagon or van to get your skills and knowledge established.

 

Steel Shadow - Have you read the pamhlet from Comet about building their kits?

 

If not - I recommend you do!

 

If you have - then you have a differnt problem which needs more investigation.

 

From what you said about the tools you have/are using, you should be able to solder the parts without a problem.

 

I'm with Phil on this - 50w Iron at full temperature, liquid and paste type flux and good old lead solder.

 

I sometimes have to use the 75w iron when either the material is thick or there are multiple layers soldered together.

 

Thanks

I have read it but i'm not at that point yet, I'm just having simple soldering problems and haven't touched the kit yet, with the exception of examining the pieces. I've had the iron at about 800F (400C+) to where the handle itself felt hot with similar results.

[Mallard60022]

In the past I did coach soldering jobs for customers of the late Geoff Brewin of Comet Models. If you would like to do yours in stages then I'll be happy to 'talk you through' things the way I do/did them. OK so you are in the USA but I'm sure we could set something up.

Phil

I have read it but i'm not at that point yet, I'm just having simple soldering problems and haven't touched the kit yet, with the exception of examining the pieces. I've had the iron at about 800F (400C+) to where the handle itself felt hot with similar results.

What thickness brass are you using to practise?

Phil

[SteelShadow104]

In the past I did coach soldering jobs for customers of the late Geoff Brewin of Comet Models. If you would like to do yours in stages then I'll be happy to 'talk you through' things the way I do/did them. OK so you are in the USA but I'm sure we could set something up.

Phil

What thickness brass are you using to practise?

Phil

About a mm, i'm just practicing making a 90 degree joint.

[RBAGE]

Don't use 60/40 solder. That's for electrical work and melts at about 232 Celsius (about 450 Fahrenheit). As a rule of thumb, I would have my iron at about twice the solder melt point. If you want to use 60/40 then that would be 900 Celsius.

 

Try using 185 Celsius (or better still 145). Comet coach brass will is quite thin and should be fine with this arrangement. 900 degrees and you run the risk of putting too much heat into the brass causing it to distort.

 

I use either 10% phosphoric acid flux or powerflow paste flux.

 

If the iron is too cool, there will not be enough heat to melt the solder and heat the brass at the same time. As soon as you put the iron on the brass, it acts as a heat sink and if the iron isn't powerful enough it will not be able to supply heat to the tip as quick as the brass conducts it away.

 

If the iron is too hot, you won't be able to pick the solder up because it gets too fluid.

[SteelShadow104]

Don't use 60/40 solder. That's for electrical work and melts at about 232 Celsius (about 450 Fahrenheit). As a rule of thumb, I would have my iron at about twice the solder melt point. If you want to use 60/40 then that would be 900 Celsius.

 

Try using 185 Celsius (or better still 145). Comet coach brass will is quite thin and should be fine with this arrangement. 900 degrees and you run the risk of putting too much heat into the brass causing it to distort.

 

I use either 10% phosphoric acid flux or powerflow paste flux.

 

If the iron is too cool, there will not be enough heat to melt the solder and heat the brass at the same time. As soon as you put the iron on the brass, it acts as a heat sink and if the iron isn't powerful enough it will not be able to supply heat to the tip as quick as the brass conducts it away.

 

If the iron is too hot, you won't be able to pick the solder up because it gets too fluid.

Well what is the best solder to use for whitemetal and brass?

[RBAGE]

Well what is the best solder to use for whitemetal and brass?

70 Celsius solder for white metal with the iron at about 200 Celsius.

185 Celsius solder for brass with the iron at about 350 Celsius

145 Celsius solder for detailing parts on brass with the iron at about 300 Celsius. You can use this for brass structure assembly also.

Operating temperatures are what I use but might vary slightly based on the power of you iron.

 

For white metal to brass, you'll have to tin the brass first with brass solder then solder the white metal parts onto the tinned area using the low melt solder (70 degrees).

 

You can now buy a solder that can be used to solder white metal directly to brass but I haven't used it. 

[Mallard60022]

About a mm, i'm just practicing making a 90 degree joint.

Too thick. You need scrap bits from the kit etch; maybe cut out the coach ends and use the waste? I'm going to leave the advice to RBAGE as it is silly that two of us are giving you advice.

Phil

[RBAGE]

Too thick. You need scrap bits from the kit etch; maybe cut out the coach ends and use the waste? I'm going to leave the advice to RBAGE as it is silly that two of us are giving you advice.

Phil

The more the merrier. Then we all learn from everyone's experience.

 

I have some experience in kit building but not all good.

[RBAGE]

For example, my first experience of of kit building was an N gauge, white metal body kit of an S and D 7F.

 

I'd never heard of low melt solder or variable temperature soldering irons.

 

I used 60/40 solder with a huge iron. You can imagine Dali-esque results.

Edited July 4, 2017 by RBAGE

[Retro_man]

Well what is the best solder to use for whitemetal and brass?

Hi Steve,

 

I use 145 solder and a 25 watt iron for most brass construction. The 70 solder is for white metal.

 

http://www.modelrailwayimports.com/products.php?q=solder&s=1

 

All in stock and cheap shipping to the US.

 

The Comet guide is very useful and the tips by the other posters are bang on.

 

Steve

Model Railway Imports

Canada

Edited July 5, 2017 by Retro_man

[Deano747]

 

 

For white metal to brass, you'll have to tin the brass first with brass solder then solder the white metal parts onto the tinned area using the low melt solder (70 degrees).

 

You can now buy a solder that can be used to solder white metal directly to brass but I haven't used it. 

 

Carrs, (now sold through Phoenix) 100deg solder. Works well but as usual, clean, clean and clean, both before and after!!

 

(No connection, just a happy customer.)

 

Regards, Deano.

[Hyper Aus]

As someone who has just started to look into building some kits I found this on youtube:

 

 

 

The sound may not work on your device although it worked fine on my tablet and TV but not my PC.

 

I found the instructions and information very good but have yet to put it into practice myself. I am still collecting parts for my build as the previous owner either didn't order everything required or they are missing. I also need a few extra tools.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Hyper Aus

[Clearwater]

As someone who has just started to look into building some kits I found this on youtube:

 

 

 

The sound may not work on your device although it worked fine on my tablet and TV but not my PC.

 

I found the instructions and information very good but have yet to put it into practice myself. I am still collecting parts for my build as the previous owner either didn't order everything required or they are missing. I also need a few extra tools.

hi

The above video has been used by many, including me, as a primer on kit building. Tony Wright, the presenter, is a frequent contribitor on rmweb - his thread is called wright writes

 

David

[hayfield]

Well what is the best solder to use for whitemetal and brass?

 

 

Plenty of sound advice here, firstly can I suggest obtaining one of these books  Whitemetal Locos: A Kitbuilder's Guide  A truly stunning book and a good read

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whitemetal-Locos-Kitbuilders-Iain-Rice/dp/0906867770

 

I use an Antex 25 watt iron for all but the biggest brass jobs, changing the bit size helps tackle most jobs for both brass sheet and whitemetal. Liquid flux is a must as is 70 and 100 degree solder for whitemetal  keep the tip of the iron clean, cut the solder into tiny pieces when using and the best advice I received with low melt solder is the following

1 Hold the pieces to be soldered into position

2 Flux the joint

3 Place a tiny piece of solder in the joint (not on the soldering iron

4 In and out of the joint with the iron as quickly as you can

 

I would practice on a cheap whitemetal wagon kit first, having said that look for Grasshoppers thread on this site, he started off with a DJH Pacific class loco as a first build, all went OK and is now on to a 7mm scale kit,

 

Good luck

[davidw]

My first loco kit was the DJH A2 similar to the A1. I wouldn't say it was easy but very enjoyable. Since built a second A2 an A2/3  and A2/1. Sadly I don't have the time to build that I used too. Good luck if you choose to progress to loco kits.  These days I mess about with more coach builds.

[The modeller]

I'm am planning on starting with a DJH 0-4-4 locomotives.  Do the kits come with pickups 

[micklner]

12 minutes ago, The modeller said:

I'm am planning on starting with a DJH 0-4-4 locomotives.  Do the kits come with pickups 

Probably the hardest type of Loco to build due the weight distribution on the wheels . I would recomend a 0-6=0 as a first kit.

 

I dont think any kits come with pickups. Most pick ups on kits kits are made using Nickel silver wire, bent to shape.

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, The modeller said:

I'm am planning on starting with a DJH 0-4-4 locomotives.  Do the kits come with pickups 

 

Yes. But more wire than actual pickups. You might want to replace it with something else such as phosphor bronze or nickel silver.

 

All wires and such are included, screws, handrail knobs, etc. Although they don't come with wheels and motors anymore.  You also normally get a few number and name plates relevant to the model.

 

Have a look at this page here if it's your first one. Good solid advice.

 

https://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/hints/

 

 

 

Jason

[The modeller]

23 hours ago, micklner said:

Probably the hardest type of Loco to build due the weight distribution on the wheels . I would recomend a 0-6=0 as a first kit.

 

I dont think any kits come with pickups. Most pick ups on kits kits are made using Nickel silver wire, bent to shape.

thanks . i picked it because of price and i like 0-4-4 and i cannot currently afford any 0-6-0 kits by them 

[The modeller]

23 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes. But more wire than actual pickups. You might want to replace it with something else such as phosphor bronze or nickel silver.

 

All wires and such are included, screws, handrail knobs, etc. Although they don't come with wheels and motors anymore.  You also normally get a few number and name plates relevant to the model.

 

Have a look at this page here if it's your first one. Good solid advice.

 

https://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/hints/

 

 

 

Jason

thank you. ill look at website and you bringin up the point that it doesn't come with wheels and motor i know i gonna buy those aswell

[hayfield]

On 14/09/2021 at 20:51, The modeller said:

thanks . i picked it because of price and i like 0-4-4 and i cannot currently afford any 0-6-0 kits by them 

The main issue is getting the loco balanced , I find quartering easier on four coupled locos. I would go for a simple loco without valve gear first