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6 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

It is obvious you know very little about how commision/add on is calculated. I don't add that much to basic cost.

 

I have had many items printed by SW as well as supplying to others,  I am well versed in what SW charge.

 

6 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

As for glue, I find most glues work, and someone told me  that they found simple plastic glue worked, because it gets ito the gaps between the grains of fused nylon and locks them together.

 

 WSF does not work with glues, it's the nature of the material. Fine detail plastic will work with cyano.

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glue works for me. Also I don't do much glueing wsf to wsf, as I prefer complete bodies not kits. I do manage to stick card and wood to it though with no problem. As I said I have been told by someone who was exhibiting at Warley a couple of years ago, that they had managed to stick styrene to wsf using standard plstic glue. I presume the glue soaked into gaps .

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I have often wondered about the accuracy of models made in WSF because the surface is so grainy. Is the model dimensionally accurate if measured across the high spots or after those have been sanded away to make a universally uniform and smooth surface?

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On 12/12/2020 at 22:00, PenrithBeacon said:

I have often wondered about the accuracy of models made in WSF because the surface is so grainy. Is the model dimensionally accurate if measured across the high spots or after those have been sanded away to make a universally uniform and smooth surface?

I have only printed N scale buildings and N motorised chassis housings in unpolished un-dyed WSF. The grain is not an issue. The tolerances for the chassis housings are critical. It has an interference fit over the commercial motorised chassis and then clips into the body of an Oxford Diecast bus. Yesterday, just over 3 years after the first installation I had to remove the housing from the first bus I converted to change the Lipo rechargeable. It unclipped from the body as planned. The motorised chassis unclipped as planned too. After reinstallation everything was back to how it has been for 3 years. For all 3D design and printing,  my view is that choosing, the material and technology, and understanding tolerances and the process of a particular printer, are likely to deliver optimum results. I would normally not print N body shells in WSF, or on a filament printer, but others have been happy using my files in this way. 

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  • 1 month later...

 

After a busy 2020, 2021 shouldbe interesting. I am hoping Shapeways and UPS are sorted out for exporting to UK. Given that they export to most of the World, I think they are probably more ready than some.

One slight glitch has been one of my magazine adverts went missing, not a good time to happen, especially as January is traditionally credit card/bill paying time for many. These things happen, and it will be interesting to see if it actually has an effect.

 

Started 2021 with some requested designs
Firstly Maunsell and Bulleid catering coaches, including the Tavern car(but you do have to paint on the bricks!)

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-sr/3d_printed_SR_coaches.htm

 


After a request for the ex GCR inspection coach which worked in Scotland I have completed a design
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-lner/3d_printed_gcr-coaches.htm


Based on outline drawings and measurements. Coach was scrapped in 1968,so had a long life, and should interest GCR and Scottish fans.

SR-bulleid-tavern-car-orig-1a.jpg

SR-maunsell-restaurant-car-1a.jpg

GCR-M&SLR-Directors-Saloon-1033-1a.jpg

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1 hour ago, rue_d_etropal said:

 

After a busy 2020, 2021 shouldbe interesting. I am hoping Shapeways and UPS are sorted out for exporting to UK. Given that they export to most of the World, I think they are probably more ready than some.

One slight glitch has been one of my magazine adverts went missing, not a good time to happen, especially as January is traditionally credit card/bill paying time for many. These things happen, and it will be interesting to see if it actually has an effect.

 

Started 2021 with some requested designs
Firstly Maunsell and Bulleid catering coaches, including the Tavern car(but you do have to paint on the bricks!)

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-sr/3d_printed_SR_coaches.htm

 


After a request for the ex GCR inspection coach which worked in Scotland I have completed a design
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-lner/3d_printed_gcr-coaches.htm


Based on outline drawings and measurements. Coach was scrapped in 1968,so had a long life, and should interest GCR and Scottish fans.

 


GCR-M&SLR-Directors-Saloon-1033-1a.jpg

I had to look the directors saloon up. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to have made it into preservation.

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Directors saloon, you have my attention. It will happily run along side the gcr railcar I built from your 3d print. I was going to have to scratchbuild it, but you have saved that hassle. 
many thanks

richard 

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I actually had a copy of the drawing(side) but not the end on. Then I was sent copies of both, although the end one is not actually of this particular coach(different roof end), but good enough. I have side drawings for the other inspection coaches, but nothing on the non balcony ends of them.

Now for inspection coaches the one high on my list is the LNWR one preserved on KESR, especially as it was also at Longmoor. Just can't find a scale drawing of that particular coach.

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I have discovered an end on view of this coach on e-bay. It shows a lot of detail of the end including some fancy metal scrollwork.

image.png.963a56faf546dca7f12cf50a8086c6ca.png

It appears to have or had two narrow end doors if the central handrails are anything to go by.

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4 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I have discovered an end on view of this coach on e-bay. It shows a lot of detail of the end including some fancy metal scrollwork.

image.png.963a56faf546dca7f12cf50a8086c6ca.png

It appears to have or had two narrow end doors if the central handrails are anything to go by.

It did, those fancy scrolls are the sides so you could get on to the next carriage/ wagon in the train without stepping down. ....or step of an end loading dock as here, or just get much closer to the ballast as the train rolls on. The other end does not have these.

richard

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1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

Some of these ER inspection saloons lasted a remarkably long time - can someone identify the origins of this one, please?

 

638747979_E902179EINSPECTIONSALOON.jpg.00620faaafaa3210a05f6847804d43b8.jpg

 

John Isherwood.

It still exists. it dates from 1871 when it was built by the Stockton and Darlington Railway as a six wheel third class saloon. It came to the NER in 1876 and was converted ti an inspection saloon in 1884. In 1904 it was rebuilt into bogie form as in the picture. This was the coach that became 'The Old Gentlemans Carriage' in the film The Railway Children.

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On 12/12/2020 at 10:20, rue_d_etropal said:

As far as I know there are actually two different technologies used under the 3D printing name:

Fused Deposition Modeling (FDM), or Fused Filament Fabrication (FFF), is an additive manufacturing process that belongs to the material extrusion family. In FDM, an object is built by selectively depositing melted material in a pre-determined path layer-by-layer.

 

that is I think how the finer plastic is printed, but as it is printed in air, it rquires legs to support it, which then have to be removed very carefully(SW do this but that adds to the cost)

This I think is what WSF is. As the model is supported during printing, it does not need legs . I believe that ,due to the heat and static build up , plastic dust will stick to the surface when model is removed from printer. That is the rough surface.

 

If someone asks I will set options for finer material for any design, if it fits in max size limits, and the bigger the size, the bigger the increase in cost (those legs seem to be the expensive part!). SW remove the legs, some other companies leave them for the customer to remove(hence reducing their own cost ).

 

There are a lot more than two technologies... and I think you might also be confusing your 3D printing technologies:

As far as I knew Shapeways no longer offer any filament type (FDM) 3D printing. You can get some amazing results with this tech in the larger scales if you're committed but I'd still say it's not suitable for small scales and curved surfaces in most cases. Check out this thread on a German model forum to see some amazing HO FDM work: https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=171433.

 

Then there is SLA. There is liquid resin based stereolithography (SLA) which uses legs/supports to print overhangs and then there is wax-based support SLA this is what Shapeways offers. Wax based SLA is quite rare commercially actually (I've only seen a couple of places offering it) but is a good option in some cases! The wax support structure is melted away once the print is finished so no stress on the model when the support is removed. Also means there is no 'extra' charge for this as it's an inherent part of the printing process just as removing excess powder is a part of the SLS/MJF process.

Prints probably just take longer with the SLA process as the layer heights are smaller than those used to print the WSF of the SLS/MJF process. I suspect the build plates are smaller with most SLA printers (even the commercial ones) so less models per print run too. 

 

If you ever have a print made using liquid resin based stereolithography then it's likely it will arrive with the supports still in place. You'd pay a fortune to have someone remove them for you, not only that but in most cases they'd probably get it wrong on a complicated model and as far as I'm concerned the supports make the printed object stronger while it's in transit to you. It's a simple task to remove them with a good pair of cutters and sand down any remaining high spots.

Resin is a tiny part of the cost of SLA printing from what I've seen using programs like Chitubox. For any commercial operation time is money and SLA takes longer because layer heights are usually much smaller than with other technologies so printing takes longer. There usually also needs to be some post production washing and UV curing of the model which adds more steps that take time; I'd imagine much longer than just sieving the model out of the powder and blasting it with air.

Model volume is another major factor with SLA  printing not because it uses more resin but because it uses more cubic mm inside the printer. If they can only fit a couple of other models on the print bed because your print is large they are going to pass that opportunity cost onto you!

 

This might all seem irrelevant but understanding the tech you are intending to print with can make a big difference to your designs and outcomes. Your WSF models need to be much chunkier due to the nature of the material and to withstand the air blasting used to remove the excess powder post-production vs. a similar SLA print. 

If you ever design for SLA you need to make sure you're not inadvertently designing pockets that don't drain the support wax properly or voids that end up filled with uncured liquid resin because light from the UV curing process can't reach it.

Print orientation can have a big influence on part strength too so that's another thing to factor in.

 

In any case once you understand the processes you can also start playing around with the minimums that these companies recommend for the different technologies. For instance I'm finding I can almost halve most of the recommended minimums suggested for support based resin SLA printing. You can then force a 'non-conforming' print through using the 'print it anyway' option most companies offer and still get functional and robust SLA prints.

There's not so much leeway with the wax supported SLA from Shapeways despite the gentler process as the resin used seems to be much more brittle but again that does depend on the orientation of the part in the printer.

 

Edited by NScaleNotes
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Shall I just leave these here. The other two gcr inspection / officer carriages.

 

plus another photo showing details of the end of the one already drawn.

FBA97114-CFDD-43E6-B085-6F860E385A5A.png.b9da921248c46345d141a58aa27e0b14.png

Need several posts due to file size.

richard

Edited by richard i
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On 11/12/2020 at 17:41, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

A "rule one" item to me but I think it will look rather good in BR DMU green with speed whiskers.

 

Edit: I don't have a clue what I could use for bogies for this. It would be useful to at least have some 3D printed bogie sides.

 

I missed this one - I've always fancied one of these in 4mm and Googled in vain a good many times over the years.  In LMS livery though, but yes it would have suited BR DMU colours, just so long is it never got a yellow end!  I've seen this unit scratch built in 7mm, and a few photos but I've never seen any drawings.  Definitely need to save some more pennies now.

 

I would have thought pretty much any motor bogie with the right wheelbase (whatever that is) would do and I would just build a couple of pivots as articulation joints on RTR bogies for the centre coach.  Don't need to worry about a chassis - the streamline skirts hide it.  I agree about the bogie sides, but that comment applies even more to the SR Sentinel Railcar 6 which I haven't got round to putting a Spud under yet.  The disc brakes (if that's what they are) on that are very conspicuous on the well-known picture postcard.

 

I am surprised by the LMS railcar also being available in "final" form though - presumably as converted to electrification duties.  But if so, why is the centre coach also produced in that version - was it put onto standard bogies instead of being scrapped?

 

3D printing is ideally suited to vehicles that only existed in limited numbers and aren't well known so have a very restricted market.  There's so many oddball items in this range that really appeal to me, like the Tyneside electrics, Dockers' umbrella, Clayton railcar, GKER stock and some of the Wickhams.  A lot of the other northern EMUs also appeal, but I wouldn't want to faff about with OHLE.  Whatever next - the Micheline or the Coventry railbus?

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If I do a model of the inspection car it will be in its later condition with the Gresley bogies. I am looking into finding an old cheap Hornby LNER coach with an underframe I can chop.

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1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

If I do a model of the inspection car it will be in its later condition with the Gresley bogies. I am looking into finding an old cheap Hornby LNER coach with an underframe I can chop.

Don't MJT do Gresley bogies?

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