More 3D - adding something new every week

[Nick Holliday]

There's a nice drawing of the GCR steam railmotor in David Jenkinson's book of the subject. His notes helpfully describe the way the driver's door slides and how the adjacent ventilators are flush with the sides, to accommodate the door, and he points out a minor error in the drawing.

[rue_d_etropal]

One thing I can be certain of is that nothing is ever certain with respect to early railcars, steam , petrol or electric. The drawing is the same oneor certainly from same sourceb as in George Dow's book, with a photo above it to compare easily. The guards doors on the railmotor shown do actually match the drawing, where as the phoot in DJ's book does not.

I have noticed that It has been the guards double doors on coaches that seem to change. And it is not always certain if the general standard(certainly later on) is applied , having one door with and one door without a window. Usually the same side, left or right, not symetrical. Has fooled a few people over the years including Lima with their GWR railcar.

[rue_d_etropal]

The GCR petrol railcar is an odd beast. The drawings are misleadung, possibly confusing the outline of te sliding door on engine compartment(?) and the body outline. At least the imensions are given, with narrowest part of body being 8ft 3in and widest part 8ft 6in, the shape in the drawing is not possible. It actually scales out at nearer 9ft wide. Have used dimensions. Not many photos, I only found 2 online and the one in the book.

[nick_bastable]

Just got my package from shapeways that contains these two in N gauge

 

 

rather  pleased Gazelle will be pushed by a motorized van

 

Nick

[rue_d_etropal]

I am pleased I set the FED and FUD options for N gauge. I am considering doing a finescale version of other N gauge items. It should not be too difficult, as all I should need to do is resize the HO scaled version.

Even getting rolling wheels to move will be a challenge on Gazelle, not that the ones on the Gazelle coach are that big.  Just reember that buffer height on Gazelle was a lot lower than normal standard gauge wagons. 

[nick_bastable]

I am pleased I set the FED and FUD options for N gauge. I am considering doing a finescale version of other N gauge items. It should not be too difficult, as all I should need to do is resize the HO scaled version.

Even getting rolling wheels to move will be a challenge on Gazelle, not that the ones on the Gazelle coach are that big.  Just reember that buffer height on Gazelle was a lot lower than normal standard gauge wagons. 

I have the advantage as a museum volunteer that its easy to measure Gazelle if I need to and check for details I suspect even using z gauge wheels it will be over height and the con rod may prove a step to far

 

Nick

[Tom Burnham]

Gazelle does have a Great Central connection, as she ran from Kings Lynn via Pyewipe Junction to Chesterfield Market Place (Lancashire Derbyshire & East Coast Rly) and back on Sunday 25 July 1897.  The LD&ECR (the "East to West" or as a marketing name "The Dukeries Route") was eventually acquired by the Great Central.

[rue_d_etropal]

Wheel diameter for Gazelle is 2ft 3in,which is 4.6mm in N scale!(Kato bogie chassis has that sized wheels).  The Gazelle coach wheels are even smaller!

The drawings Les did originally are accurate. He has not updated them,but the coach drawings have been updated (as has the Pickering steam railcar).

[nick_bastable]

Simon

 

I have the plan and access to the actual loco,  I had thought the wheels even smaller although I'm stumped at how to drill crank pin holes although I think I know how I will remove the pin points   I may well ask in future for more 152  versions 

 

Nick

[richard i]

The GCR petrol railcar is an odd beast. The drawings are misleadung, possibly confusing the outline of te sliding door on engine compartment(?) and the body outline. At least the imensions are given, with narrowest part of body being 8ft 3in and widest part 8ft 6in, the shape in the drawing is not possible. It actually scales out at nearer 9ft wide. Have used dimensions. Not many photos, I only found 2 online and the one in the book.

It looks good. The original had its radiator on the roof so I am imagining I will need to get long but small diameter springs to replicate it. I am eyeing up one of my son's trams made by Bachman as a chassis....at least in part.

Thanks it looks the part.

If you like I could look out other photos .

Richard

[rue_d_etropal]

I did not attempt the roof radiators as they are not clear in photos, and not on the drawing, which is only really an outline for operating department. The end profile in drawing does not match the measurements. It would be interesting to see more photos, but would not be surprised if there no other ones. Sometimes when experiments are not that successful, companies try to remove all evidence. Also many photographers at the time were still more interested in steam not these new spangled replacements!

There isn't much room to hide a motor, and in 4mm scale the motor bogie is only 22mm wheelbase. The other bogie is only 28mm, but at least a SPUD or similar would fit. Mark Clark(Locos and Stuff) does his own range of  motor bogies.

Edited April 4, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[Nick Holliday]

I did not attempt the roof radiators as they are not clear in photos, and not on the drawing, which is only really an outline for operating department. The end profile in drawing does not match the measurements. It would be interesting to see more photos, but would not be surprised if there no other ones. Sometimes when experiments are not that successful, companies try to remove all evidence. Also many photographers at the time were still more interested in steam not these new spangled replacements!

There isn't much room to hide a motor, and in 4mm scale the motor bogie is only 22mm wheelbase. The other bogie is only 28mm, but at least a SPUD or similar would fit. Mark Clark(Locos and Stuff) does his own range of  motor bogies.

There are more photographs, including an excellent roof top view in Dow's GCR Album.  There is also another view of it in later life, in Basil Jeuda's The Macclesfield, Bollington and Marple Railway.  Reluctant to post them here, for a number of reasons (no scanner/copyright/etc).  I am not familiar with the drawing you have used, so I cannot comment on its accuracy, but Dow does give a rather unusal dimension, quoting 8' 6" "over pillars" whcih leaves it a bit open to question what a "pillar" is, as the unusual profile of the bodyside makes it difficult to tell, but the sliding doors would probably be outside that dimension.

You cannot really call this one a failure, as it ran until 1935, known as the Bollington Bug, but, as you  say, it is surprising, and annoying, that the photographers seemed to almost deliberately ignore these smelly petrol engined things, much preferring to capture yet another steam loco, rather than one of these new-fangled motors, despite them being, arguably, the sign of white-hot technology. For example, if anyone has photos of the LBSCR petrol engined passenger railcars between about 1912 when they went into departmental service, and a last know portrait in 1927 I would like to know, as this gap is extremely frustrating!

I would certainly be interested in acquiring one of these, once your design is finalised, but there are some tweaks I feel it needs first, to fully capture the oddness of the design.  I think the roof top detail would be essential, too, perhaps a separae moulding, as would the bogies, as they are so distinctive you can't really get away with anything that is currently available. In many respects, the basic body shell is the easy bit, it is things like the domed roof and all the added detail that gives 3D printing the advantage over etching.

[rue_d_etropal]

The problem with roof detail, is that it is not actually that easy to see in many photos. The drawing I used is in George Dow's volume 3 of GCR history. What I always say is that if people actually care then they should do the drawings. I have found that most people are happy to have just a body, as it takes them past that first hurdle. Chassis detail is often not that easy to find, and I would rather not put something on than have someone say it was wrong.

As one editor said, 3D printing is an aid to scratchbuilding. Giving the modeller enough to help, but not too much so they still feel they have actually built the model, not just assembled one. Encouraging people to research , even if it is the right colour shade, that encourages modellers to continue .

Fact is I am never going to please everyone, so I am aiming somewhere in the middle, where most people are at.

[Nick Holliday]

Simon

I'll PM you copies of the photos that I have found, and I attach the one showing the roof cooling system quite clearly,

I appreciate your comments, but the better the basic model, the better the final product will be. I suggested the cooling fins would be usefully done in 3D printing, because i cannot see how they could easily be done any other way. Likewise the bogies, which are very different from anything else the GCR or other lines used. As for things like underframe detail, perhaps you could make purchasers aware of your best thoughts, even if you don't incorporate them in your CAD file. In your research to create the body you will probably have found out more about the vehicle in question than the majority of buyers can, so passing on some of that knowledge would make adding the final bits that much easier, and more likely to look right. As for the drawing, i have Volume 3, but it must be an early edition which hasn't got it, for some reason.

[rue_d_etropal]

That roof shot makes it clearer. Only photo I had was of te side,which shows lengthof the radiators but no detail. Should be able to estimate height above roof, but it will only be an estimate. Looking at it more carefully, and I woulld have thought it was actually quite easy tomode, being two side walls and curved tube between them. The bogies look vaguely American, which is probably what I would use myself. It would only be an approximation I could do, based on the one good side view.

The drawing is in an appendix, so might have been a later addition.

 

The only research I have been able to do has been here online, and the book recomendation here.

[richard i]

You beat me to it with the roof photo. In cad cam it should come together quickly as it is a lot of the same shape. In the real world I would make one cross beam(?) of the radiator and then cast it enough times to finish the model.

[rue_d_etropal]

Done some changes. Difficult towork out exact sizes, but I think there are right number of tubes.

Also added the exhaust. It does stick up a long way. Would worry about loading gauge.

[richard i]

Want to push more buttons. Have you finished playing with the design or are you going to work on bogie sides?

Have you put mark 2 on shapeways?

You will have an order from this household in 1:76 from me.

Will the radiator have to be a separate print so it does not need support under it for the build?

Richard.

[rue_d_etropal]

It is still at design stage. Everything in that picture is in one piece.No problems highlighted by Shapeways. The radiators is just the supports and the curved cooling pipes, and is part of the main print.

 

I can knock up bogie sides as separate design. I have a standard format, so just need to change length and type of sides. The two bogies are almost the same, just different lengths.

 

Bogies done, here is the shorter one. Only difference is the length

Edited April 5, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rue_d_etropal]

All now up and running, Got the designdown toN gauge, but that has a more solid roof under the radioator. Could try a finer scale version, but would still be worried about the radiator tubes. Did notdo the bogies for N gauge as I don't think thee would be much to them once walls are thickened. In finer plastic the bogies might not be strong enough, but willing to try if anyone asks.

[Nick Holliday]

Looks much better with the radiator pipes in place.  I suspect that replicating the fins is a bridge too far!

I notice that all the photos of it in service show the engine room doors open.  Presumably it got rather hot and/or smelly  in there.  Would there be any chance of modelling it either with open doors as an option, or with the sliding door as a separate part, to be fixed how the builder wants?

[rue_d_etropal]

Separate items are not that easy. Same reason I prefer complete bodies not kits, as geting parts to fit together properly is more difficult to do.

Someone actually that bothered, could cut them out. When it comes to options like doors open, then 99% of the hobby has doors closed on models. Rare these days to find r2r with doors that open. The old airfix meat wagon, had (crude) doors that could open, but most plastic kits now have doors closed as part of molding.

[richard i]

Doors open/ doors closed, either way it looks a cracking model saved me a lot of time working out those angles during a scratch build.

Richard

[rue_d_etropal]

I keep repeating a comment one magazine editor made about 3D printing(his excuse for not getting an article about 3D printing then), and that was 'An aid to scratchbuilding'. This is whhy I sometimes turn on kit builders, as they can build a kit, most can't.

I just hope anyone who buys one is happy. There can be problems with WSF, but if anyone wants OO version in FUD, just ask, you might not be so keen on the price though, and there still can be problems.

 

It was one rail vehicle that was lurking at back of my mind. Wth that one good side photo, I might have tried to do the drawing myself, luckily there  is an ops department drawing(with errors), and that made it easier.  I can always update the design if more information comes through.

I plan to do theLNER steam railcars and diesel railcars, one of which actually took over from this GCR railcar.

 

Now for something new, possibly that LMS experimental 4 wheel railcar. Good drawing of side and top, and hopefully able to work out end detail. At some time I want to do the GWR petrol ralcar. Drawings are again basic. Then there is something else, slightly odder for Southern fans, the LSWR Dummong Bug. I have good drawing fo that c/o an article in MRC.

 

I should really look at doing a couple of locos. I have had some requests, and they do make a change. In fact I might try that loco now.

[richard i]

One gcr rail car ordered, plus a dynamometer car, lets see how they go.

Would enjoy seeing others finished products on this thread too.

Thanks for the design work

Richard