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6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Hmm, hasn't changed much then.  If I had to go down there to call out staff after dark I always made sure I had a brake stick reasonably handy - but under a coat - in the car.  One bloke I went to call one evening asked me if I was on my own - thought it was very brave of me.  But then I used to regularly have. a drink in The Custom House at the top of Bute St and compared with that place Roath was  rather quiet.

 

I used to 'sometimes' drink in the Quebec down there, or the Owain Glyndwr  on East Canal Wharf. All gone now, I suspect.... 

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10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Hmm, hasn't changed much then.  If I had to go down there to call out staff after dark I always made sure I had a brake stick reasonably handy - but under a coat - in the car.  One bloke I went to call one evening asked me if I was on my own - thought it was very brave of me.  But then I used to regularly have. a drink in The Custom House at the top of Bute St and compared with that place Roath was  rather quiet.

 

Some years ago I had a regular evening commitment at St Martin's. Every time I parked in Albany Road, I caught someone out of the corner of my eye eyeing up the contents of the back seat.

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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

The 57xx/8750's better route availability is a slight cheat; these were 'blue' locos arbitrarily reclassified as 'yellow' during WW2 and the blue never re-imposed.  It increased their usefulness by a very considerable amount, allowing their use on the Newport-Brecon trains for example, but they were still prohibited from some blue routes, notably the Cambrian and Mid Wales.

How do you account for them being used on the Central Wales line then? They were occasionally shedded at Llandovery (from Paxton Street) and were very common up to the end of steam operating Llanelli-Llandovery services as a typical example.

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After the demise of the Custom House, that scene transferred across the road to the Crown, which made the Custom House look like Palm Court.  But you're right, Roath has always had a bit of an edge to it, even before the 80s when the drugs really seeped into every part of life here.  The thing yesterday almost certainly originated here, and not up in Penylan where Tim lives.

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1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

 

I used to 'sometimes' drink in the Quebec down there, or the Owain Glyndwr  on East Canal Wharf. All gone now, I suspect.... 

Yes, all gone now.  The 'Bec was a music pub, with a bit of a back room jazz scene going on.  To be pedantic, the Owain Glyndwr is the pub that used to be the Buccaneer and formerly the Tennis Courts up by St John's Church, and the one on the other end of the block to the Custom House, more a railway pub because it was closer to the General, used the Shakespeare spelling from Henry V Part 1, Owen Glendower, the usual English interpretation of his name. 

 

He is commemorated by the pub by St John's after visiting Cardiff in 1404, leaving the place razed to the ground except for the Castle, which held (luckily for the townsfolk who were hiding inside it's walls) and St John's tower, built only a few decades previously and which he spared because it had, he apparently said, a 'noble aspect'; it is the only structure apart from the Castle that exists in the centre of Cardiff (where precious little predates the 19th century) that dates earlier than 1404, but some of the cellars might predate it. 

 

Interestingly, if he were to revisit Cardiff now, the only flag he'd probably recognise is the Red Dragon from all those flown on the Castle Walls.

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1 hour ago, PMP said:

How do you account for them being used on the Central Wales line then? They were occasionally shedded at Llandovery (from Paxton Street) and were very common up to the end of steam operating Llanelli-Llandovery services as a typical example.

 

 I'm not too sure, but limited range for water prohibited use over certain sections of the route. Weight wasn't normally a problem, the the ability to travel between water stops was a deciding factor.  A Dean goods will have nearly twice the capacity over a pannier with regards to supply. Midland 8f's  hauled the Royal Train down that way. 

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1 hour ago, PMP said:

How do you account for them being used on the Central Wales line then? They were occasionally shedded at Llandovery (from Paxton Street) and were very common up to the end of steam operating Llanelli-Llandovery services as a typical example.

Carmarthen-Llandovery as well.  The Central Wales line, being LMS, was not included in the GW/WR's colour code system AFAIK, and I doubt that they were shedded at Llandovery prior to nationalisation.  The Central Wales featured heavyweights such as Black 5s, Jubilees, Stanier 8Fs, Fowler 2-6-4Ts and G2s as well as BR standard 5MT and 4MT tanks.  There was a Royal Train to Builth Wells, not sure from which end, double headed by Castles, and 2251s were used on banking duties.

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7 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Yes, all gone now.  The 'Bec was a music pub, with a bit of a back room jazz scene going on.  To be pedantic, the Owain Glyndwr is the pub that used to be the Buccaneer and formerly the Tennis Courts up by St John's Church, and the one on the other end of the block to the Custom House, more a railway pub because it was closer to the General, used the Shakespeare spelling from Henry V Part 1, Owen Glendower, the usual English interpretation of his name. 

 

He is commemorated by the pub by St John's after visiting Cardiff in 1404, leaving the place razed to the ground except for the Castle, which held (luckily for the townsfolk who were hiding inside it's walls) and St John's tower, built only a few decades previously and which he spared because it had, he apparently said, a 'noble aspect'; it is the only structure apart from the Castle that exists in the centre of Cardiff (where precious little predates the 19th century) that dates earlier than 1404, but some of the cellars might predate it. 

 

Interestingly, if he were to revisit Cardiff now, the only flag he'd probably recognise is the Red Dragon from all those flown on the Castle Walls.

 

I'm sure he would remember Gabalfa flyover, a 'noble aspect' if ever there was one.

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Probably put a few people he didn't like in the foundations... He is not remembered with fondness in Cardiff, even now.

 

I find him a particularly fascinating character, accepting the use of ancient lineages and the 'Mab Dagoran' prophesy as his authority to lead the Welsh, but being a modern thinker in many other respects.  He had studied law at Oxford in his younger days, which perhaps led him to this approach.  The Pennal Letter, which he wrote to the Pope (the arbiter of such disputes in those days) justifying  a separate nation state for Wales as the will of it's people is very similar in format to more modern declarations of independence.  He made the mistake of backing the wrong Pope though, the one in Avignon rather than the one in Rome, and of getting himself involved with Percy and Scrope in the Triapartite Agreement.  Had he backed the right Pope, and concentrated his efforts on unifying the Welsh instead of p*ssing some of them off by burning their towns down, he might have achieved his aim and been crowned King of Wales.

 

Does this count as :offtopic:?

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My first pair arrived...

 

72E248B7-401B-43E3-AF14-5F123F6AEB53.jpeg.53b48b072e86be3fa0d04cf0401d2dc9.jpeg

 

i’d say it looks like a 94xx

 

4F82735A-5BB1-44CC-8846-7F85317A5A7B.jpeg.9874ac61d0199bedbce572237677f6ee.jpeg

 

 

i thought i’d point out one or two close ups, that for me really stand out..

the intricate whistle valves.

6FAA7845-1179-4768-875B-54E8594F9D86.jpeg.d3533c579ca84b85182a45ab87c28895.jpeg


 

return of sprung buffers, but not the box standard ones, these have footsteps..

AE489012-85C9-4A02-A44D-3DF765E524F9.jpeg.b1a5af25cf2e803c0e82c9bdd629ad39.jpeg
 

the under boiler detail speaks for itself..DFA2E164-F643-4B6C-A50B-590E23FC405E.jpeg.36495360ad7fd82455e4b0112da87d47.jpeg

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44 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Carmarthen-Llandovery as well.  The Central Wales line, being LMS, was not included in the GW/WR's colour code system AFAIK, and I doubt that they were shedded at Llandovery prior to nationalisation.  The Central Wales featured heavyweights such as Black 5s, Jubilees, Stanier 8Fs, Fowler 2-6-4Ts and G2s as well as BR standard 5MT and 4MT tanks.  There was a Royal Train to Builth Wells, not sure from which end, double headed by Castles, and 2251s were used on banking duties.

I’m more than aware of that. But five hours ago you told us 

 

but they were still prohibited from some blue routes, notably the Cambrian and Mid Wales.

 

And no prior to Nationalisation the LMS wasn’t noted for operating  Panniers.

 

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2 hours ago, PMP said:

I’m more than aware of that. But five hours ago you told us 

 

but they were still prohibited from some blue routes, notably the Cambrian and Mid Wales.

 

And no prior to Nationalisation the LMS wasn’t noted for operating  Panniers.

 

He's off again! Why so stroppy?

You are putting words in Johnster's mouth, he never said they were banned from The Central Wales Line, he was right to say they were banned from the then lightly built Cambrian, and The Mid-Wales Line, which was virtually a light railway.  The Mid-Wales Line was on a NW/SE axis, between Moat Lane on the Cambrian, and Three Cocks Junction, near Brecon. The Central Wales Line by contrast, was a heavy-duty main line running NE/SW, albeit mostly single track, Pontadulais and Pantyfynnon to Llandovery was joint GW/LMS, Llandeilo to Carmarthan was LMS only. The GW would regard the main line to Llandovery as a Red Route.

      This all changed after Nationalization, the WR took over control of the whole line to Craven Arms, although through trains were still supplied by the LMS, possibly because of platform clearances for GW outside cylinder types, north of Llandovery? WR trains would now operate most local services, there would be nothing to stop a 94xx running as far as Llandovery.

      For the record, the Mid-Wales line remained heavily restricted, no panniers allowed, although as Johnster states, they were subsequently allowed access to Brecon from South Wales, plus later they were allowed to run to Hereford, noteably running double-headed on the Dowlais ammonia trains, but no 94xxs, they were still too heavy.     BK

 

 

          

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My early crest example arrived from Derails on Thursday and was put into action in the evening. It arrived intact and I fully agree with others that it looks fantastic and has a very impressive weight - with a quick, unscientific comparison it feels like the equivalent of about one and a half 8750s, and you get the sense that it should make a decent go of long coach rakes on ECS duties for instance.

 

Performance on DC with my Gaugemaster Combi was good at all speeds with the coreless motor not seeming to make much difference from a more conventional one, though I'd be wanting to disable the firebox glow if I was leaving it like that! I use DCC though and straight after running in the loco received a Zimo MX618N18 that had been waiting for its arrival (now that Next18 decoders are no more expensive than for any other socket, I rather like not having to prat about tucking wires away). Bachmann loco design is generally very sensible and their familiar system from the 5700/8750 and other tank locos of popping off the couplings, then undoing one screw underneath at each end was very welcome to see on this after some other locos that have needed illogical looking combinations of screws removing to get the body off. The only slight snag is a literal one; the rear vacuum pipe is fixed to the body and tucks under the chassis, so it has to be gently eased back when removing or refitting the body.

 

A quick test of the bare chassis after plugging in the decoder indicated some dissatisfaction from the motor with the default motor control CV values, with a bit more noise than usual and a slight but perceptible jitter when crawling along, so I changed them to those suggested for a small coreless motor in the Zimo small decoder manual (a more accurate name would be 'large manual for small decoders'):

 

CV 9 - 51

CV 56 - 133

 

After doing this and setting my usual top speed of 150, midpoint of around half that and acceleration and deceleration to 20, it was time for another go. This made the loco's performance as good as anything else I've taken out of a blue box and fitted with a Zimo decoder. I have to say though that I do slightly begrudge this bit of extra attention in decoder setup that comes with a coreless motor when conventional 3 or 5 pole motors will usually let me get away with just setting the top speed and inertia.

 

With the loco moving as expected and the body back on, I then set both firebox LEDs to flicker on function key 1, rather than giving a solid light and being switched separately by F1 and F2. I hadn't done this before and had to look it up, so to save anyone else wanting to do it the bother, the CVs and values you want are:

 

CV 35 - 12

CV 127 - 8

CV 128 - 8

 

The red and yellow LEDs are side by side and the effect isn't that convincing, as they shine across each other onto their own sides of the cab. It's a nice feature to play with though nonetheless.

 

All in all, an excellent loco as I would expect from Bachmann and well worth our long wait.

 

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3 hours ago, PMP said:

I’m more than aware of that. But five hours ago you told us 

 

but they were still prohibited from some blue routes, notably the Cambrian and Mid Wales.

 

And no prior to Nationalisation the LMS wasn’t noted for operating  Panniers.

 

Well, I told you that because they were prohibited from the Cambrian and Mid Wales routes, despite the Cambrian being a 'blue' route; the Mid Wales was 'unclassified'.  You may be confusing the Mid Wales with the Central Wales, which I did not mention, the LNWR route from Craven Arms on the North to West main line to Swansea (Victoria). This is still in business as the 'Heart of Wales' line but now runs via Llanelli and trains reverse to reach Swansea High Street, and has done since 1964.

 

The Mid Wales, operated in pre-grouping days by the Cambrian, ran from Three Cocks Junction, a few miles to the northeast of Brecon where it diverged from the Brecon and Merthyr, to Moat Lane on  the Cambrian west of Newtown.  The passenger service worked from Brecon.  It was very restricted as to axle loads and not even classified as yellow by the GW, who worked it with Dean Goods until these were replaced by brand new Ivatt 2MT moguls shortly after Nationalisation.  Joined by BR standard 2MT 78xxx moguls which were almost the same thing, these worked the line until it's Beeching closure in 1963. 

 

The Central Wales crossed it by an overbridge at Builth Road, about 5 miles to the north of Builth Wells which was never directly served by the Central Wales route.  There was no running line connection but traffic could be passed between the routes via a through siding between the goods yards. 

 

Hopefully this explains the situation; Wales can be confusing to non-residents!

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While we are on the subject of DCC, as illustrated by @Rising Standards a couple of messages back, can anyone suggest how one might go about obtaining a few printed circuit boards with the Next18 decoder socket on them. I have several ancient 57xx and 8750s that have ancient wires-only decoders fitted, and I'd like to retire those decoders and use them for other purposes, such as lighting, etc., and replace them with more modern ones such as the Zimo MX618N18.

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5 hours ago, Budgie said:

While we are on the subject of DCC, as illustrated by @Rising Standards a couple of messages back, can anyone suggest how one might go about obtaining a few printed circuit boards with the Next18 decoder socket on them. I have several ancient 57xx and 8750s that have ancient wires-only decoders fitted, and I'd like to retire those decoders and use them for other purposes, such as lighting, etc., and replace them with more modern ones such as the Zimo MX618N18.

There are several available, just search for next18 adapter board. 

I found ESU 51999 and Lais DCC 860031. There may be some more around.

 

Now back to topic, my 94xx was sent via parcelforce and according to the tracking it was exported from the uk. I hope it will turn up some time, preferably at my door and not at the customs office.

 

Regards,

Bjoern 

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7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Well, I told you that because they were prohibited from the Cambrian and Mid Wales routes, despite the Cambrian being a 'blue' route; the Mid Wales was 'unclassified'.  You may be confusing the Mid Wales with the Central Wales, which I did not mention, the LNWR route from Craven Arms on the North to West main line to Swansea (Victoria). This is still in business as the 'Heart of Wales' line but now runs via Llanelli and trains reverse to reach Swansea High Street, and has done since 1964.

 

The Mid Wales, operated in pre-grouping days by the Cambrian, ran from Three Cocks Junction, a few miles to the northeast of Brecon where it diverged from the Brecon and Merthyr, to Moat Lane on  the Cambrian west of Newtown.  The passenger service worked from Brecon.  It was very restricted as to axle loads and not even classified as yellow by the GW, who worked it with Dean Goods until these were replaced by brand new Ivatt 2MT moguls shortly after Nationalisation.  Joined by BR standard 2MT 78xxx moguls which were almost the same thing, these worked the line until it's Beeching closure in 1963. 

 

The Central Wales crossed it by an overbridge at Builth Road, about 5 miles to the north of Builth Wells which was never directly served by the Central Wales route.  There was no running line connection but traffic could be passed between the routes via a through siding between the goods yards. 

 

Hopefully this explains the situation; Wales can be confusing to non-residents!

 

My unreserved apology.

 

I am aware of the  Mid Wales line and its alignment, I had as many people do forgotten it, (despite having co-written a published piece on Builth Road, DOH!) having frequently heard people, (myself included) and contemporary locals, refer to the Central Wales Swansea-Shrewsbury as the 'Mid Wales' route.

 

Note to self don't post whilst pre-occupied with more pressing matters!

 

And don't worry I don't find Wales confusing as a non-resident, I spend plenty of time there.

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8 hours ago, Rising Standards said:

My early crest example arrived from Derails on Thursday and was put into action in the evening.

 

A quick test of the bare chassis after plugging in the decoder indicated some dissatisfaction from the motor with the default motor control CV values, with a bit more noise than usual and a slight but perceptible jitter when crawling along, so I changed them to those suggested for a small coreless motor in the Zimo small decoder manual (a more accurate name would be 'large manual for small decoders'):

 

CV 9 - 51

CV 56 - 133

 

After doing this and setting my usual top speed of 150, midpoint of around half that and acceleration and deceleration to 20, it was time for another go. This made the loco's performance as good as anything else I've taken out of a blue box and fitted with a Zimo decoder. I have to say though that I do slightly begrudge this bit of extra attention in decoder setup that comes with a coreless motor when conventional 3 or 5 pole motors will usually let me get away with just setting the top speed and inertia.

 


The latest MX617’s I have used now seem to be set as default to use ‘automatic’ motor parameter adjustment. I presume this must be a newish firmware update tweak that all Zimo’s will eventually get. The cv’s mentioned are all set to ‘0’. The running quality with both iron core and coreless is good, but.....being rather pernickerty I still found the fixed settings to be better, a less variable performance when coreless were used. At least with Zimo you can fine tune to your hearts content in contrast to many others.

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1 hour ago, PMP said:

 

My unreserved apology.

 

I am aware of the  Mid Wales line and its alignment, I had as many people do forgotten it, (despite having co-written a published piece on Builth Road, DOH!) having frequently heard people, (myself included) and contemporary locals, refer to the Central Wales Swansea-Shrewsbury as the 'Mid Wales' route.

 

Note to self don't post whilst pre-occupied with more pressing matters!

 

And don't worry I don't find Wales confusing as a non-resident, I spend plenty of time there.

Apology unreservedly accepted!

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2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I thought the mainline west of Welshpool was yellow.

 

Definitely shown as Yellow on the official map.  it might have been upgraded to Dotted Blue but I doubt it and certain Blue category engines were no doubt only allowed with various restrictions.  

Llanelly - Morlais Jcns was, of course, Red and thence to Llangadock (presumably a one time limit of GWR engine working) was Dotted Red so Llandovery - not much further on - would present no problem for a 94XX. 

 

Almost all ex GWR lines in the Eastern, Western, Cardiff and Port Talbot Valleys were Red with  few (including the Rhondda part of the former TVR and most of the former Barry lines being Dotted Red)  as was the vale of Neath over its entire length .  Thus on former GWR lines in South Wales, and standing aside any clearance restrictions, there were numerous routes - in fact the overwhelming majority of them - open to 94XX.

 

The ex LNWR lines beyond Abergavenny Jcn including down into the various Valleys were either Yellow or Blue once the WR had taken them over. The N&B was mainly Blue although the section from Colbren to Neath was Yellow.

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Definitely shown as Yellow on the official map.  it might have been upgraded to Dotted Blue but I doubt it and certain Blue category engines were no doubt only allowed with various restrictions.  

 

What date is that map Mike? I understood that the Cambrian main line was reclasified as blue sometime around the war. 

 

Peto's register on the Manors has some information on the subject. It doesn't give a definative date for the main line but says it was reclaissifed from yellow to blue after the Manors had started to be built and also says that the engineers had been preparing to upgrade the line to a blue route in 1938. The book is a bit clearer about the coast line which it says was officially upgraded to blue in the summer of 57. 

 

It would be a bit of an operational nightmare if every other train was subject to restrictions wouldn't it? By the fifties were in full swing probably every other train on the Cambrian main line was hauled by a blue route enigine (Manor, Mogul, Std 4 4-6-0) and by the sixties that was probably 90%.

 

Justin

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