Miss Prism Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1931 route map 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: FTFY. The North and middle is easy. It's the pile of spaghetti at the bottom that's confusing. Jason The pile of spaghetti is what makes it so interesting. Places like Walnut tree, where going east-west you've got the Cardiff, Rhymney, Taff, and Melingriffith all within 400 yards, with the Barry going over the top. Plus, of course, the Merthyr Turnpike and the Glamorgan canal. 2 miles further up, and the same compass heading gives you Alexander, Newport Docks & Junction, Glamorgan canal, Cardiff Railway, Taff vale, Llantrisant & Taff Vale Junction, Barry, and finally, Barry again. Depending on your time period, you can put in the Estate Railway, at Willowford. Plus, in both cases, the river Taff.... I fully recommend having a look at the geology of the South Wales coalfield. In fact, not just south Wales, but from The Dean Forest, all the way across to (almost ) Carmarthen. If there was a hole in the ground, then a railway ran up to it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I've just had a look at a working timetable from 1959 for the Oswestry district. Interestingly it says that the Whitchurch to Aberystwyth line was officially a yellow route. However under permitted engines it lists 'uncloured', 'yellow', and 'blue' (except 2-8-0s) subject to certain restrictions and prohibitions. It then lists the restrictions all of which relate to speed or cylinder clearance restrictions on sidings only. There were no speed restrictions on the main line for blue route engines. Interesting that they didn't seem to have officially reclassified it as a blue route. The ban on 2-8-0s perhaps being the reason? Aside from that it might as well have been a blue route. Justin 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 30 minutes ago, tomparryharry said: f there was a hole in the ground, then a railway ran up to it. Sometimes more than one. It was a poor valley that didn't have two railways for at least a part of it's length, or one going over the top somewhere. Railway penetration was more or less total, and the real Dimbath Valley is unusual among those cut into the central Glamorgan uplands in retaining it's pre-industrial sylvan loveliness intact (the trees are long gone for pit props on the model of course). I can only think of one other that can claim this, the small Cwm BIg that enters the Ebbw at Aberbeeg. There's coal beneath the Dimbath of course, but the valley is literally undemined from pits in neighbouring valleys; Ogmore Vale, Gilfach Goch, and Clydach Vale, a side valley from the Rhondda at Tonypandy. Not to say that there aren't the occasional areas of pre-industrial scenery in other valleys; the Taff around Pontargwaith and under Brunel's Quaker's Yard viaducts is lovely, as is the Sirhowy between Nine Mile Point and Bird in Hand, and the Llwyd (the 'Eastern valley') on the low level route between Pontypool and Blaenafon, a sort of secret world in a narrow defile away from the wastelands of Farteg and Abersychan further up the mountainside. If you are ever in the vicinity of the real Cwmdimbath, and have time to kill especially if it's a nice day in Autumn, look for Cwmdimbath Lane off the A4093 at Glynogwr and stop by the bridge over the little Nant Lechyd stream; I wasn't kidding about the sylvan loveliness, and all the valleys must have looked like this 250 years ago. My great-aunt Nell, a clay pipe smoking Tonypandy girl (and a bit of a character) who died in 1963 at the age of 104, remembers when 'a squirrel could go from Porth to Treherbert without having to touch the ground'; the trees didn't last more than a couple of decades once the pits were sunk, and the props had to be imported. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 AH ............. the good ol' days when Great Aunts were proper Great Aunts an' squirrels were proper squirrels. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Could those with more BR Western Region engine overhaul knowledge than I do, or who remember the locos in the early 1960s, which I never did, as I was in the Southern or Midland areas, help me. The 94xx in early BR crest has red backed cabside plates. It's been said that many 94s didn't last long enough for a heavy overhaul and repainting, but did the Western Region leave the cabside plates with red backing until withdrawal, if the loco wasn't repainted and late crest fitted, or repaint the cabside plate in black. Many thanks for any help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, rembrow said: but did the Western Region leave the cabside plates with red backing until withdrawal, if the loco wasn't repainted and late crest fitted, or repaint the cabside plate in black. It was very rare for a loco to have a late crest and red-background plates. Only photo evidence would confirm whether any particular 94s reached such a state. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Miss Prism said: 1931 route map How very interesting, thanks for posting that. Also interesting to see that the GW branch from Bullo Pill to Cinderford was dotted blue, but that the Severn & Wye route from Lydney seems to be uncoloured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: It was very rare for a loco to have a late crest and red-background plates. Only photo evidence would confirm whether any particular 94s reached such a state. Thanks Miss Prism, but if it retained early crest to the end, would the cabside plate still be red backed at the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Again, only photographic evidence could show that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I don't think many actually got the red backed plates. I think it was only one batch and the practice was discontinued during the building of that lot. I was reading it the other day somewhere on the internet. If I find it again I'll link to it. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The official red-backed plate era was November 1949 to April 1952. That seems to cover 94xx lots 382, 383, 384, 385 and (possibly) 386. See http://www.gwr.org.uk/notes/Loco_lot_nos.xls 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Yes. It was a colour photograph of a brand new one that had just been delivered from one of the contractors. But had quite a bit of information on the livery. Found when we were discussing whether the plates were brass or not. I've deleted my history since then but can't be difficult to find. It was on a proper photo site such as HMRS, RCTS, Transport Treasury, etc. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinehill Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just finished the weathering! 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post gwrrob Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2021 17 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, gwrrob said: Rob, Why did you repost the photo upside down? Regards, Craig W (Australia) 1 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 6 hours ago, Wickham Green too said: AH ............. the good ol' days when Great Aunts were proper Great Aunts an' squirrels were proper squirrels. Kids terday, don't know they're born. 1 hour ago, Craigw said: Rob, Why did you repost the photo upside down? Regards, Craig W (Australia) To show how well it stays on the track, of course... 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Magnadhesion ??!? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Yessss, my reverse gravity machine works. The world is mine!!!! Next the invisibility cloak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 18 hours ago, Miss Prism said: It was very rare for a loco to have a late crest and red-background plates. Only photo evidence would confirm whether any particular 94s reached such a state. Would it be fair to say that the WR reverted to black backgrounds for name and numberplates at the earliest opportunity? It always seems that way! I recall seeing a 'Hall' (Dumbleton, I think) at Reading in the mid-1960s and thinking how odd it was. I think it was the only red plate I ever saw and I can't now remember what tender emblem it had. Black name plates looked so much more classy on GWR locos, but red was 'right' on Southern ones. (CJL) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 16 hours ago, Pinehill said: Just finished the weathering! What running model trains looks like in Down Under/Australia & NZ. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 23 hours ago, jjnewitt said: What date is that map Mike? I understood that the Cambrian main line was reclasified as blue sometime around the war. Peto's register on the Manors has some information on the subject. It doesn't give a definative date for the main line but says it was reclaissifed from yellow to blue after the Manors had started to be built and also says that the engineers had been preparing to upgrade the line to a blue route in 1938. The book is a bit clearer about the coast line which it says was officially upgraded to blue in the summer of 57. It would be a bit of an operational nightmare if every other train was subject to restrictions wouldn't it? By the fifties were in full swing probably every other train on the Cambrian main line was hauled by a blue route enigine (Manor, Mogul, Std 4 4-6-0) and by the sixties that was probably 90%. Justin The map is amended up to 1957 so some time after Manors appeared on the Cambrian. Regrettably my next WR information is dated 1963 and post dates the transfer of the Cambrian to the LMR so it's not included. The 1949 STT shows Whitchurch to Aberystwyth as Yellow with certain Blue category engines (including 78XX) permitted subject to various restrictions of speed. Dovey Jcn - Pwllheli was Yellow except between Barmouth Jcn and Barmouth which was Blue (however the map doesn't show Blue on this section). whether the route was upgraded between 1949 and 1957, or latter I can't at the moment answer. Restrictions of speed need not in themselves present any problem especially where, as on the Cambrian, overall train speeds were relatively low however Manors were restricted to 40mph throughout between Whitchurch and Aberystwyth at that time (normal limit 60mph) and to 10 mph at two underbridges. In reality I suspect what happened might have varied a little from the restrictions and of course engines didn't have speedometers 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 23 hours ago, Miss Prism said: 1931 route map Note that the map - which is the one I have long used - is amended up to 1957 so some routes have changed 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, dibber25 said: Would it be fair to say that the WR reverted to black backgrounds for name and numberplates at the earliest opportunity? ..... Think I read somewhere - so it's probably wrong - that locos overhauled at Crewe were the only ones to have their numberplates painted red !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 23 hours ago, jjnewitt said: I've just had a look at a working timetable from 1959 for the Oswestry district. Interestingly it says that the Whitchurch to Aberystwyth line was officially a yellow route. However under permitted engines it lists 'uncloured', 'yellow', and 'blue' (except 2-8-0s) subject to certain restrictions and prohibitions. It then lists the restrictions all of which relate to speed or cylinder clearance restrictions on sidings only. There were no speed restrictions on the main line for blue route engines. Interesting that they didn't seem to have officially reclassified it as a blue route. The ban on 2-8-0s perhaps being the reason? Aside from that it might as well have been a blue route. Justin If you look on page 69 you will see the overall restrictions of speed, and the one remaining underbridge restriction, applicable to Blue category engines. Somewhat improved since 1949 but still limited to 40 mph east of Welshpool. As I have recently found in another connection (now live I believe) some of Mr Peto's information is a little suspect at times but could not be checked against the sort of resources we have available to use in the 'net. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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