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Bachmann 94xx


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2 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Would it be fair to say that the WR reverted to black backgrounds for name and numberplates at the earliest opportunity?

 

Yes, I think I would agree with that. The mixed traffic livery and red plates were seen as Derby-isms, so Swindon would have reverted to black-backed plates for anything going through the works after April 1952. (What the maverick Caerphilly did was another matter.)

 

What is at question here though are the locos, a bit like the 16xxs, that did low mileage and would not have returned to the works for some considerable time after 1952. There is also the matter of what particular sheds did - some might have got the black paintbrush out straight away, others might have taken a liking to the red plates. That's why I feel photographic evidence is the only reliable history.
 

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Thanks for the concern over the "incident" there a few days ago.

Interviews done, cordons removed, police disappeared, park open. The only sign of anything unusual is a few flowers leaning against the park railings down the road to commemorate a Polish man, living in Essex who travelled to Cardiff during a lockdown, got into bother about a mile away and ended up dead in our street.....Draw your own conclusions....I won't be commenting further.

 

So postie was able to come this morning.....

 

Most of the twiddly bits fitted, runs nicely from very slowly and quietly to any sensible speed I choose (Gaugemaster Q). Easily pulled 7 Bachmann Bulleids (no Western coaches on there at present) or 28 wagons. Proper running in this PM whilst I'm faffing around up there.

 

Very happy :)

IMG_3411.JPG

IMG_3414.JPG

Edited by Tim Hall
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Mine arrived this morning, what a beast!

Just doing a bit of testing, seems to run OK at all speeds in both directions.

Part finished Limby effort is now in the scrap drawer, Bachmann DCC Pannier chassis anyone? (Although it may yet get re-purposed.)

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On 31/01/2021 at 14:16, Wickham Green too said:

AH ............. the good ol' days when Great Aunts were proper Great Aunts an' squirrels were proper squirrels.

Great Aunt Maria was a particularly horrible specimen, but she was in the Lake District, and so is off-topic here.

Edited by Budgie
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5 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Bachmann DCC Pannier chassis anyone? (Although it may yet get re-purposed.)

 

Yes, please, if you're serious.

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22 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

(What the maverick Caerphilly did was another matter.)

I wish I still had my copy of E R Mountford's book, which went AWOL during one of the many moves of my unsettled post-divorce existence, but IIRC he states that the maverick Caerphilly obeyed the instructions from Swindon in this matter.  They liked red paint at Caerphilly, though, and would paint reversing rods in it at the drop of a hat.

 

22 hours ago, Tim Hall said:

Thanks for the concern over the "incident" there a few days ago.

Interviews done, cordons removed, police disappeared, park open. The only sign of anything unusual is a few flowers leaning against the park railings down the road.

 

So postie was able to come this morning.....

 

Most of the twiddly bits fitted, runs nicely from very slowly to any sensible speed I choose (Gaugemaster Q). Easily pulled 7 Bachmann Bulleids (no Western coaches on there at present) or 28 wagons.

 

Very happy :)

IMG_3411.JPG

IMG_3414.JPG

 

Nice, and glad to hear the fuss is all over on the mean streets of Penylan!  Mine was posted on Saturday from Rails, and I'm a bit miffed because they promised me Friday when I phoned them Friday morning, in which case I might have had it today, but I've to go to Pentwyn Leisure Centre for my covid vaccination, a 2 bus trip, later so wouldn't have had time to unpack it anyway!  I am hopeful for tomorrow, but the saga of this loco has proved that hopes are sometimes dashed... its on it's way and will be comin' around the mountain when she comes.  Not sure about the pink pyjamas.

 

Liking the mogul driver's pose.  I have the same chap as the bloke leaning out of the 94xx on the fireman's side of my soon to be retired Limbach 94xx. 

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9 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I wish I still had my copy of E R Mountford's book, which went AWOL during one of the many moves of my unsettled post-divorce existence, but IIRC he states that the maverick Caerphilly obeyed the instructions from Swindon in this matter.  They liked red paint at Caerphilly, though, and would paint reversing rods in it at the drop of a hat.

 

 

Nice, and glad to hear the fuss is all over on the mean streets of Penylan!  Mine was posted on Saturday from Rails, and I'm a bit miffed because they promised me Friday when I phoned them Friday morning, in which case I might have had it today, but I've to go to Pentwyn Leisure Centre for my covid vaccination, a 2 bus trip, later so wouldn't have had time to unpack it anyway!  I am hopeful for tomorrow, but the saga of this loco has proved that hopes are sometimes dashed... its on it's way and will be comin' around the mountain when she comes.  Not sure about the pink pyjamas.

 

Liking the mogul driver's pose.  I have the same chap as the bloke leaning out of the 94xx on the fireman's side of my soon to be retired Limbach 94xx. 

Good luck with the jab. In-laws (90 and 85)  had theirs 12 days ago and wife as a GP nearly a month ago. 

 

It's a good pose, I have several of them dotted around various locos.

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Still no 94xx from this mornings' postman in the Glorious Soviet Socialist Republic of Lower Johnstrania, and the nation is in mourning; black flags, solemn music on radio and tv, that sort of thing.  A week of national rejoicing will of course be declared as soon as the situation is rectified, dancing in the streets, day off school, prisoners released, bunting, that sort of thing.

 

I'm getting a bit, by which I mean considerably, fed up with this now, and my patience is wearing thin, but of course there's nothing I can do except wait.  It's on RM 48 hour tracked delivery, but I can't actually track it becuase I don't have the tracking number; might ring Rails later to see if they know it.  But I've had stuff with RM 48 hour tracking before and they don't actually seem to give you any more information than 'We haven't tried to delivery it yet try again later', which is about as helpful as a blocked drain; no 'parcel in xxx sorting office' or 'in transit between xxx and yyy' which is what I'd expect from the name. 

 

I really feel like kicking someone's dog, an activity I don't condone and won't do, but that's how I feel! 

 

Just got the tracking number from Rails and entered in the RM app;  'we are unable to confirm the status of your item'.  Thanks a bunch, that's improved the situation and reassured me considerably...

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tim Hall said:

Good luck with the jab. In-laws (90 and 85)  had theirs 12 days ago and wife as a GP nearly a month ago. 

 

It's a good pose, I have several of them dotted around various locos.

I actually wrote this yesterday and for some reason didn't click send, so I've been jabbed.  No problems, the hardest part was getting there on the 58 bus; I got the last downstairs seat when I got on at the library.  NHS nurses in conjunction with army girls in fatigues.  One of the side effectis is feeling tired, but I feel tired most of the time anyway so how would I know? 

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Were any of the 94/84/34xx fitted with cast iron number plates? 

 

Although we always see every model of GWR/BR(W) locos with shiny (or dirtied) number plates, a fair few of the less exotic members of the western fleet were fitted with cast iron plates.

 

The border and the numbers were picked out in a shade of cream to make them stand out from the background.

 

An example from the 56xx series of locos:

 

https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/gwr-cast-iron-cabside-numberplate-5686-ex-collett-2020jul-0223.html

 

 

Edited by Happy Hippo
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10 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

No

 

 

 

 

Thanks Miss P,  I asked because of this one.

 

 

https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/br-w-brass-cabside-numberplate-8444-ex-hawksworth-2018nov-0446.html

 

 

I do know that Caerphilly had a habit of painting some plates over, but this one, although it's brass according to the auction site, looks particularly scabby compared with the usual brass plates.

 

Could it be that the Bagnall casting were not up to Swindon standard?

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2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I'm getting a bit, by which I mean considerably, fed up with this now, and my patience is wearing thin, but of course there's nothing I can do except wait.  It's on RM 48 hour tracked delivery, but I can't actually track it becuase I don't have the tracking number; might ring Rails later to see if they know it.  

 

 

 

Chillax Johnster,

       Your baby is coming, but the big mail order firms like Hatton's and Rails have been overloaded with orders, thanks to people stuck at home during lockdown, plus they are suffering staff shortages through illness or isolation. I ordered other stuff from Hatton's yesterday morning, and i'm still waiting for the second "packing email", which advises of despatch, in normal times this would be 2 to 3 hours after receiving the order confirmation email.

       So that would account for your delay in despatch, even if Royal Mail collected it last Saturday, I doubt it went far over the weekend, so even in normal times on RM 48 hour service, I wouldn't expect it until Wednesday morning, cos I don't fink weekends count? Even their premium overnight SD1 service has been a bit patchy, but they seem to be clawing things back, although even SD1 won't tell you what time they'll deliver, just "next day before lunchtime".

        Some of the couriers are very good, noteably DPD, who give you a one hour delivery window on the day, so you don't get caught sitting on the bog, when the doorbell rings, but they charge more. RM will probably move to this system eventually, they did a "one hour window trial" in my area, a year or two ago. 

        Just sit tight, tomorrow morning is best bet, then you've still got Thurs/Fri/Sat, but don't dwell on the loo, in case a van pops around, instead of the regular time postie.    

                                                                             Cheers, Brian.

Edited by Kirby Uncoupler
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Just to update from half-an-hour ago, I have now received the parcel despatch email, 26 hours after the order confirmation email(!), but I have no complaints, I know they are struggling to keep up, we're all in the same boat. My stuff is going DPD 24hr Expresspack, due tomorrow, they'll say precisely when, in the morning by text and email (yes, both!).     BK

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1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

No

 

 

 

 

 Err, I think we need to check... The contractor-built locomotives were-are brass. I've seen them going through auctions. The plates on 9400-9409, I'm not altogether sure... More research required, folks!

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1 hour ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

 

Chillax Johnster,

       Your baby is coming, but the big mail order firms like Hatton's and Rails have been overloaded with orders, thanks to people stuck at home during lockdown, plus they are suffering staff shortages through illness or isolation. I ordered other stuff from Hatton's yesterday morning, and i'm still waiting for the second "packing email", which advises of despatch, in normal times this would be 2 to 3 hours after receiving the order confirmation email.

       So that would account for your delay in despatch, even if Royal Mail collected it last Saturday, I doubt it went far over the weekend, so even in normal times on RM 48 hour service, I wouldn't expect it until Wednesday morning, cos I don't fink weekends count? Even their premium overnight SD1 service has been a bit patchy, but they seem to be clawing things back, although even SD1 won't tell you what time they'll deliver, just "next day before lunchtime".

        Some of the couriers are very good, noteably DPD, who give you a one hour delivery window on the day, so you don't get caught sitting on the bog, when the doorbell rings, but they charge more. RM will probably move to this system eventually, they did a "one hour window trial" in my area, a year or two ago. 

        Just sit tight, tomorrow morning is best bet, then you've still got Thurs/Fri/Sat, but don't dwell on the loo, in case a van pops around, instead of the regular time postie.    

                                                                             Cheers, Brian.

Good advice of course, Brian, and I will do my best to take it!  I am a bit dissappointed in RM; Rails promised me Friday morning that it'd be in the post that day, but it didn't show as 'in progress' on their website until Saturday am and not until after 5pm did the order show as 'completed'; I took that to mean that my loco was packed and addressed on the Saturday and in the post that evening.  This would have meant it sitting in Sheffield sorting office until Monday when it should in theory have been forwarded to Cardiff in the evening and delivered this morning, but this would be downhill with a following wind and takes no account of snow, covid, staff shortages in sorting offices and the inability to use staff fully even if they all turn up because of the distancing requirements (I did 10 years in Cardiff's main sorting office so know a little of whereof I speak, but that was 1987-97 and some of the procedures have changed since then).

 

My main beef, though, is that if the item is '48 hour' tracked, surely this means I should be able to go on RM's webby and find out where it is now; Sheffield, Cardiff, on a truck in transit between them.  But there is this denial that the thing exists, try again later, and we'll tell you when we've delivered it, which of course you already know because you opened the door to the postie in the first place.  I am not going to start getting worried until it doesn't come tomorrow, as I reckon it really ought to be here by then even if you take the 48 hours as being from Monday am when Sheffield first emptied the collection bags and realised they had it at hand.  Monday is a fully staffed day and it's quiet at this time of year, though starting to pick up by early February when everyone gets paid after spending out over xmas and only just making it through January, so it should be on it's way and I should be able to track it, but can't, which is irritating and frustrating.  Rails have done their best and kept me informed; RM are not in this league...

 

And if they've lost it, like they did a Dapol junction signal last year, I'm stuffed because I'll have to inform Rails who will have to claim the compensation from RM before sending me a replacement, which will of course be out of stock until the next batch turns up.  So I have some cause for worrying about it, the Dapol debacle took 3 months to resolve, and will be relieved to have a 94xx in my sweaty chubby little paws.  Fingers crossed tomoz.

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5 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Good advice of course, Brian, and I will do my best to take it!  I am a bit dissappointed in RM; Rails promised me Friday morning that it'd be in the post that day, but it didn't show as 'in progress' on their website until Saturday am and not until after 5pm did the order show as 'completed'; I took that to mean that my loco was packed and addressed on the Saturday and in the post that evening.  This would have meant it sitting in Sheffield sorting office until Monday when it should in theory have been forwarded to Cardiff in the evening and delivered this morning, but this would be downhill with a following wind and takes no account of snow, covid, staff shortages in sorting offices and the inability to use staff fully even if they all turn up because of the distancing requirements (I did 10 years in Cardiff's main sorting office so know a little of whereof I speak, but that was 1987-97 and some of the procedures have changed since then).

 

My main beef, though, is that if the item is '48 hour' tracked, surely this means I should be able to go on RM's webby and find out where it is now; Sheffield, Cardiff, on a truck in transit between them.  But there is this denial that the thing exists, try again later, and we'll tell you when we've delivered it, which of course you already know because you opened the door to the postie in the first place.  I am not going to start getting worried until it doesn't come tomorrow, as I reckon it really ought to be here by then even if you take the 48 hours as being from Monday am when Sheffield first emptied the collection bags and realised they had it at hand.  Monday is a fully staffed day and it's quiet at this time of year, though starting to pick up by early February when everyone gets paid after spending out over xmas and only just making it through January, so it should be on it's way and I should be able to track it, but can't, which is irritating and frustrating.  Rails have done their best and kept me informed; RM are not in this league...

 

And if they've lost it, like they did a Dapol junction signal last year, I'm stuffed because I'll have to inform Rails who will have to claim the compensation from RM before sending me a replacement, which will of course be out of stock until the next batch turns up.  So I have some cause for worrying about it, the Dapol debacle took 3 months to resolve, and will be relieved to have a 94xx in my sweaty chubby little paws.  Fingers crossed tomoz.

I've got an unmade SEF 94xx kit if you get desperate!

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2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Thanks Miss P,  I asked because of this one.

 

 

https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/br-w-brass-cabside-numberplate-8444-ex-hawksworth-2018nov-0446.html

 

 

I do know that Caerphilly had a habit of painting some plates over, but this one, although it's brass according to the auction site, looks particularly scabby compared with the usual brass plates.

 

Could it be that the Bagnall casting were not up to Swindon standard?

 

I've never heard of Caerphilly painting plates over; you may be confusing this idea with the practice of painting numbers directly on to some locos in lieu of brass or cast iron plates.  This was done to several 57xx, 8750, and 56xx and was a painted representation of the number plate, with the numbers in the Egyptian Serif script  and the edge of the plate represented as a painted rectangle.  This took place during the 50s, and I can recall seeing at least one 56xx with such painted plates in the early 60s, can't remember which one now of course.  TTBOMK all the 94xx had brass number plates, and I would have thought that these were supplied by Swindon, rather than cast by the contractors, in the case of 9410-99, 8400-99, and 3400-9.  The contractors of course put their own brass builders' plates on the locos, again TTBOMK, on the leading lh splashers.

 

All the 94xx had copper capped chimneys, which seems a bit of overkill on such lowly beasts in the early 50s, but generally had the safety valve bonnets painted over; I previously stated they all did but of course photographic evidence showed up to the contrary!  By and large 94xx in service were pretty mucky, never cleaned even where they were used in passenger service (Tondu, Gloucester) and the copper did not show except when they were fresh out of works.

 

I sat up and took notice when 8444 was mentioned; my chosen prototype is 8448 from the same batch of Bagnalls, which would have meant it having a cast iron plate as well, but they were I am reasonably certain all brass.  8448 was one of the shortest lived locos, built 6/54 and withdrawn 8/59, just over 4 years during which it was probably never cleaned and certainly never overhauled or repainted, hauling 2 or 3 coach passenger trains around the Tondu Valleys.  It must have been withdrawn in near perfect condition, barely run in...  I regard it as the ultimate Tondu allocation, the only loco AFAIK that spent it's entire working life at the shed, and which never went further than it's delivery run from Bagnall's to Swindon for acceptance then light to Tondu.

 

One might argue with the benefit of hindsight that at least half this class should never have been built, and people were doing this only 10 years later, but in 1947 there was a need for locos to replace the ageing fleet of pregrouping absorbed 0-6-2Ts in South Wales, and BR(W) reckoned they needed another 200 in 1948, first delivered in 1949.  The massive drop in demand for coal that began in the mid 50s at the same time as the dissappearance of the trip freight work they were considered to be needed for elsewhere on the region caught everyone by surprise in the mid 50s, and was not foreseen, and I would defy anyone without 20/20 foresight, hindsight doesn't count, to have predicted how devastating it would be to what were thought of as traditional core traffics in the pre-Beeching era when the railway had to act as a common carrier.

 

The locos that really shouldn't have been built were the direct replacements for the 94xx, the D95xx.  It was already known when these were ordered in 1962 that there was no work for the 94xx, so why replace them?  If WR had it's reasons, I have no idea what they might have been.

Edited by The Johnster
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2 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

I've never heard of Caerphilly painting plates over; you may be confusing this idea with the practice of painting numbers directly on to some locos in lieu of brass or cast iron plates.  This was done to several 57xx, 8750, and 56xx and was a painted representation of the number plate, with the numbers in the Egyptian Serif script  and the edge of the plate represented as a painted rectangle.  This took place during the 50s, and I can recall seeing at least one 56xx with such painted plates in the early 60s, can't remember which one now of course.  TTBOMK all the 94xx had brass number plates, and I would have thought that these were supplied by Swindon, rather than cast by the contractors, in the case of 9410-99, 8400-99, and 3400-9.  The contractors of course put their own brass builders' plates on the locos, again TTBOMK on the leading lh splashers.

 

All the 94xx had copper capped chimneys, which seems a bit of overkill on such lowly beasts in the early 50s, but generally had the safety valve bonnets painted over; I previously stated they all did but of course photographic evidence showed up to the contrary!  By and large 94xx in service were pretty mucky, never cleaned even where they were used in passenger service (Tondu, Gloucester) and the copper did not show except when they were fresh out of works.

You only have to look at the auction sites to see cast iron GWR loco number plates which are still in original condition that clearly show cream paint.

 

From Ian Rathbone's website:

 

Numbers and lettering.

Number plates –

The number plate was either brass or cast iron depending on the class of locomotive. On brass plates the numbers and rim were not painted. On cast iron plates the numbers and rim were picked out in pale Yellow. 

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3 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

You only have to look at the auction sites to see cast iron GWR loco number plates which are still in original condition that clearly show cream paint.

 

From Ian Rathbone's website:

 

Numbers and lettering.

Number plates –

The number plate was either brass or cast iron depending on the class of locomotive. On brass plates the numbers and rim were not painted. On cast iron plates the numbers and rim were picked out in pale Yellow. 

Sorry, thought you meant Caerphilly painting over the entire plate.  Yes, cast iron plates had the rim and numbers picked out in pale yellow at Swindon, Stafford Road, and Caerphilly, and presumably were repainted in the same fashion as the locos went through paint shops.  I imagine the paint was touched up at the sheds while the locos were in service if they were becoming difficult to read as well. 

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 One thing that is forgotten in these days of plenty is that there was a steel shortage in the early 50s, which is probably why it took so long for these locos to be built and delivered. If they had arrived earlier more of them might have had a longer life instead of the earlier types that had to be kept going as the replacements had not yet arrived. That is also a reason why 9fs were being built up to 1960. The industrial scene was so different then and hindsight is a wonderful tool.

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An interesting thought about the contractor built locos, how did they get to Swindon ( what route and were delivered singly or in numbers). So as conjecture, did the Bagnall locos run to Wellington on the ex LNWR from Stafford to Wellington and then down the ex GWR main line to Wolverhampton, Birmingham and onwards to Swindon. So how did the locos built in Newcastle and Yorkshire get to Swindon?

 

David

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