Where to start?

[Matloughe]

Good Afternoon,

I've been modelling on & off for at least a decade or so and I really fancy having a crack at 3mm scale. It does seem like the ideal compromise between 4mm & 2mm scale, now I'll honest I'm not that experienced I've built mainly plastic kits in 4mm & 7mm scale. I can solder, none of my wiring on my 00 Gauge has failed - but I haven't attacked a kit at all yet.

I've got in my head a small fork layout that can be broken down & stored into a boxfile out of the way as a 'test' piece. Now I've browsed the 3mm Society webpages & on 3smr page for ideas/reassurance. And have decided to come here for more ideas. I like the idea of attempting things that aren't in my usual comfort zone and creating this small tester sounds like a good way to cut my teeth on different aspects of modelling. I've thought out using thick artists foamboard for a light baseboard and am leaning towards 12mm gauge track for ease of introduction.

What are others experiences in starting in the scale, i'm not overly wealthy for spending money superfluously on anything more then the essentials. (Newborn baby in the house)

So please I am looking for help/guidance on what may be a rather slow burning project.

Kind Regards,
~ Gary  

[Joseph_Pestell]

Understand that 12mm seems so much easier but will you be happy with track that is that undersized?

 

You don't say what era you want to model but if you really don't want to build your own track might be better to go for proper TT, i.e. 1:120. No great problem these days when someone will be able to provide you with wagons etc by way of 3D print.

[Matloughe]

Afternoon,

 

Now I hadn't thought of that. I have no issues building my own track. As for Era most likely it'd be Steam, either Grouping or BR Steam. I'd only be looking at a locomotive of 0-6-0 size & few wagons as a test piece. As for the track width - I don't mind, I read the 3mm Society "Getting Started" pages and 12mm gauge seemed to be the easiest to start with.

 

I'd probably see any work in 3mm scale as a 'Photo Plank' or similar rather then an actual layout.

Cheers,

~ Gary

Edited June 29, 2017 by Matloughe

[Orange Cat]

I would go for 14.2mm gauge. It is a lot more realistic and is not a particularly exacting set of standards to work to. Apart from if you want to run Tri-and stock I don't see anything to commend the use of 12mm, unless, like me you are modelling Continental TT to 1:120 scale. The standards are basically the same for 14.2mm and finescale 12mm, just 2.4 mm wider. I don't think there's a better scale to work to than 3mm, especially if you are interested in scratch building, dimensions are readily converted, the models are a size where you can see what you are doing without being so big that the cost of materials and the effort of cutting parts becomes an issue. If it hadn't been for problems with the supply of driving wheels back when I was modelling it, I wouldn't have given it up. I think I probably have the world's largest collection of 3mm locos with no driving wheels I keep thinking I should look them out and stick them on eBay. I would certainly go for it, and if it is by way of a small plank to test the waters give 14.2mm a try too. I think you will be very pleased with the outcome. The 3mm Society are a good bunch too, although they seem to keep themselves to themselves to some extent. Their magazine was well worth the subscription in itself.

[Golden Fleece 30]

For what it is worth I have no experience of anything other than 12mm to Tri-ang TT standards. I even use and prefer the old Type A track. I am not a member of the 3mm society and not used 3smr but have managed to build a nice model railway although at the moment it is all loose lay. I have found plenty of kits on Ebay and scratchbuilt a loco and chassis. If you look on the TT technical advice thread you will see what I have done.

 

Garry

[Robert Shrives]

Hi ,

FWIW if starting go for 14.2 - lots for it and as said looks better. 12mm has lots of second hand and given the very good wagon mouldings from Triang fitting the bodies to 14.2 chassis will get a train pretty instantly!  Worsley works worth looking at for etches and certainly the society offers a great range of kit and is as it says a friendly society.

 

I am a 12mm soul due to volume of bits collected over 48 years !, I still have my first Triang 3F and it still runs well.

 

Each and all perfectly valid and welcome to the 3mm family ! I look forward to tails of the plank.

Robert        

[Joseph_Pestell]

I would go for 14.2mm gauge. It is a lot more realistic and is not a particularly exacting set of standards to work to. Apart from if you want to run Tri-and stock I don't see anything to commend the use of 12mm, unless, like me you are modelling Continental TT to 1:120 scale. The standards are basically the same for 14.2mm and finescale 12mm, just 2.4 mm wider. I don't think there's a better scale to work to than 3mm, especially if you are interested in scratch building, dimensions are readily converted, the models are a size where you can see what you are doing without being so big that the cost of materials and the effort of cutting parts becomes an issue. If it hadn't been for problems with the supply of driving wheels back when I was modelling it, I wouldn't have given it up. I think I probably have the world's largest collection of 3mm locos with no driving wheels I keep thinking I should look them out and stick them on eBay. I would certainly go for it, and if it is by way of a small plank to test the waters give 14.2mm a try too. I think you will be very pleased with the outcome. The 3mm Society are a good bunch too, although they seem to keep themselves to themselves to some extent. Their magazine was well worth the subscription in itself.

There are, these days, Romford-style wheels that have been developed for HO. So you may find some suitable options for putting wheels on those locos.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Afternoon,

 

Now I hadn't thought of that. I have no issues building my own track. As for Era most likely it'd be Steam, either Grouping or BR Steam. I'd only be looking at a locomotive of 0-6-0 size & few wagons as a test piece. As for the track width - I don't mind, I read the 3mm Society "Getting Started" pages and 12mm gauge seemed to be the easiest to start with.

 

I'd probably see any work in 3mm scale as a 'Photo Plank' or similar rather then an actual layout.

Cheers,

~ Gary

If you are happy building pointwork, it has to be 14.2mm.

[Robert Shrives]

Hi any news on your choice?

Robert 

[fallen]

Hi Gary,

 

Just a thought, perhaps a bit late in the day. I have for some time been havering between 12mm and 14.2mm. The advantage of 12mm is the availability of the original Triang models, especially through the 3mm Society's second hand sales, and Peco 12mm gauge track. The advantage of 14.2mm is that the track just looks so much better, and it's easy enough to build, flexi track can be assembled from Society track bases, and simple points are not so difficult.

 

What I have found is that it is quite possible to try both. Most rolling stock is easily re-gauged from one to the other just by moving the wheels on the axles. The main difficulty is the locos of course, wheels are generally available from the Society for both gauges now, but swapping over is not as simple as just moving the wheels, as the axles will need changing as well which means the drive gear too, and any outside motion may need adjusting too.

 

A really good start would be to join the 3mm Society and build a short piece of track (even one of each gauge) and some of their plastic wagon kits and see what you like best.

 

Frank

[Matloughe]

Good Evening,

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone for their comments and input. I haven't decided as of yet no, I like the idea of building something that is 'finescale' and that I cannot just shake out of a box and run with it. I think more research is needed and to think about what I want before I go any further. I am going to read the 3mm Society and have a look at their membership costs & literature I think.

Thank you for all your input, I'll keep you posted.

Kind Regards,
Gary

[NCB]

Building a tester is a good idea. It shouldn't cost much, and it's easy to change direction re track and gauge if you find that you want to. Biggest challenge is getting a working locomotive. There's Triang, and the 3mm Society 2nd hand shop may have kit-built alternatives, otherwise it's build-your-own. Brynkits does some excellent, mainly GWR, chasses; the quickest and easiest way is probably stick a white metal body on such a chassis. Alternatively, if you're happy with soldering, there's some nice etched kits around, of varying degrees of complexity. Any kit is probably going to cost upwards of £60 to complete, by the time you've bought wheels, gears and motor. Larger engines can top £100.

 

The easiest way to get into it is buy a Society Parkside wagon kit, these are generally excellent. I'd budget for joining the 3mm Society, where you'll have access to a wide range of parts and kits, including wheels,  and information; the Society egroup is useful for getting advice.

 

The Society does plastic track bases for plain track in 14.2mm which are as easy to use as flexitrack. They also use chairs e.g. for building pointwork. I use such chairs with Plastruct strip for point timbers; some people use ply strip instead. Current prices are £6.20 for a yard of plain track including rail (some saving if buying more) and £5.30 without rail, and £6.30 for a pack of chairs, enough to build a decent sized point. Code 60 bullhead rail on its own costs £4.80 for 10 yards.

 

In 12mm there's Ratio track bases, which uses a rather coarser rail. Some people go for soldered track construction using copper-clad sleepers. 3SMR has a point-building service using copperclad in both 12 and 14.2.

 

You can also use Peco HOm track for 12mm gauge, which looks reasonable and is a quick way of getting things going.

 

Difficult to advise on gauge. For getting going quickly, especially if using Peco track, 12mm has something going for it, useful if you're restricted on time as well as cash. But 14.2mm isn't that difficult.

[rodshaw]

You might be able to buy a decent kit-built loco from 3mm Society second hand sales, just to try out and get a feel for it.

 

I modelled in 3mm scale for over a decade, using the Society 12mm gauge track. I didn't mind the gauge compromise and I got to find out that there are many excellent 3mm modellers who don't, some even say they can't tell the difference when the track is ballasted.

 

When I got bored with Tri-ang I tried a few kits. The wagons were excellent, but I had trouble with all the loco kits I tried - missing and badly fitting parts, sourcing from multiple suppliers to get a finished product, etc. Some of the kits are shot down from 4mm scale and the instructions have measurements for that scale.

 

But I'm going back over 5 years, and might just have been unlucky (or inept). I did end up eventually with finished locos, but it put me off somewhat. I'd never have considered 14.2 because I'd probably have got myself into even more of a mess with the finer tolerances.

 

I did manage to make some 12mm gauge hand-built points though, using the Peco ones as a guide. If you can solder and measure carefully you can do it.

 

I'm actually revisiting TT, but it will be American outline, with 12mm gauge being just right. I'll probably end up making a few freight car kits in this scale, but my locos will be RTR. And no doubt I'll be giving my Tri-ang a run out too! I still have a soft spot for it.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Having recently had a go at modifying Peco points, crossing and a double slip to allow unmodified Tri-ang locos through, I am looking at building my layout with these instead of Type A track.  The locos are no problem and with the metal wheels I replace the plastic ones with they run a treat.  The Tri-ang plastic split axle ones require a washer between but that is only temporary until re-wheeled.

 

Here are some standard Tri-ang locos running through a Peco Double slip.

 

Everyone has their own choices and this is mine as I do like the Tri-ang chassis's even though I have just built 3 kit/scratchbuilt ones.  

 

Any combination has its pro's and con's, I know Rod and some others are in the 3mm society so they will certainly be able to help you with what is on offer there.

 

Garry

[NCB]

I should mention that the 3mm Society has just introduced a Fowler 4F 0-6-0 tender locomotive, as an easy-to-build kit. It is complete, including wheels, gearbox and motor. It has resin loco and tender bodies, etched chasses, and whitemetal fittings. As far as I know it's only available for 12mm gauge. It's not cheap at £117.50, but as I said it is complete; the wheels, gearbox (High Level) and motor probably account for around half the price. I don't know anything further about it, and as yet there hasn't been a review, but it seems it's one way of getting started.

 

Other new products: Brian Golding of Brynkits has just introduced three GWR 54XX/64XX/74XX 0-6-0T kits. I've no further information at the present time but if they're like his earlier 57XX kits then they'll be available in both 12mm and 14.2mm, and be a mixture of resin, etched and whitemetal components. Price £60. Don't include wheels, gearbox or motor.