Le Tour de France 2017

[njee20]

It's likely to totally screw them over!

 

The most gripping, engrossing and fascinating Tour stage in years.

And at the end of it all, a bloke riding a busted bike wins?

Mad,sad,bad and crazy - more please!

I guess, to be fair, they'd all be in their top sprocket for sprinting, so once the acceleration was done the damage was moot, i.e. Once in the final 200m Uran was as likely to win as anyone, but the fact he managed to get to the final 200m in the lead group given his rather limited gearing in the final miles is rather impressive!

 

Be interesting to know the failure mechanism, it didn't look bent, and bent mechs usually end up higher up the cassette, so I suspect either the wire got pulled out, or it had gone into "crash protection" mode, where the electronic mechs disconnect from the servo in an impact. The ironic thing being if that were the case he could've fixed it himself at the lever.

Edited July 10, 2017 by njee20

[Pacific231G]

Today's stage looks to offer not only magnificent scenery but quite a lot of the route runs parallel to working railway lines. Looking at the forecast for heavy rain here tomorrow afternoon it also looks like a good day for watching the whole stage. The fact that they're now televising the whole of each stage rather than just the second half has been a real improvement this year so I hope it continues in future. 

[Pacific231G]

There's been a few good shots over the years with trains in.

 

Simple fact is they try and avoid hitting level crossings at times when there are likely to be trains.

Or vice versa

Having found that all the railways the stage encountered today are quite well served with TERs (regional trains) I had a look at the TER Aquitaine site and a train that might have conflicted that normally runs from Bordeaux to Sarlat terminated today at Bergerac

"Ligne 26 : en raison du passage du Tour de France, le 11 juillet dans le Périgord, le TER865746 est limité à Bergerac"

 

Today didn't disappoint, at least not in scenery and railways, and it was quite heartening to see that the lines in the Dordogne département still have local trains but I think Aquitaine (now part of Nouvelle-Aquitaine) has been a fairly railway minded region . That could make the area a candidate for  a car free holiday.

I did see one TER train today on the line between Periqueux and Brives soon after seeing what appeared to be the restoration of the water tower at Niversac, the junction where the lines from Perigueux to Brives and to Agen diverge.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Butler Henderson]

I guess, to be fair, they'd all be in their top sprocket for sprinting, so once the acceleration was done the damage was moot, i.e. Once in the final 200m Uran was as likely to win as anyone, but the fact he managed to get to the final 200m in the lead group given his rather limited gearing in the final miles is rather impressive!

Liked Chris Boardmans observation that Uran started his sprint at the 10km mark - probably not that far off !

[NittenDormer]

A couple of tantalising glimpses of an impressive viaduct on the way into Rolez on Saturday. What was it?

[iak]

Still trying to make sense of the last few days...

One dares not to pay total attention to the live racing, too much going on...

[NittenDormer]

I'm particularly enjoying the background noises of scaffolding getting dismantled etc as Chris Boardman and Gary Imlach discuss the finer points of the race each evening. I remember the days when Paul Sherwin would religiously explain how much milk went into each local cheese. One more week to Paris and the Arc de Triomphe. Or as Phil Liggett once wonderfully described it 'the tomb of the unknown shoulder'.

[Pacific231G]

A couple of tantalising glimpses of an impressive viaduct on the way into Rolez on Saturday. What was it?

I think that was the viaduct at 44^o20'08.02N   2^o33'35.5 on the single track line from Toulouse and Albi that curls around the west of Rodez to reach the station which is on the north of the town. I don't think it's a well known viaduct- there's a somewhat larger one further up that line and a fairly impressive one at the western end of Rodez station- but it certainly made a pleasant vignette. It's a reasonably busy line with about eight return TER trains each day between Rodez and Toulouse. It's a bit sad though to see the empty freight sidings at Rodez in the current Google Earth vierw compared with the large number of wagons on the same tracks in 2004. 

[LIRR]

I'm particularly enjoying the background noises of scaffolding getting dismantled etc as Chris Boardman and Gary Imlach discuss the finer points of the race each evening. I remember the days when Paul Sherwin would religiously explain how much milk went into each local cheese. One more week to Paris and the Arc de Triomphe. Or as Phil Liggett once wonderfully described it 'the tomb of the unknown shoulder'.

Paul Sherwin and Phil Liggett still provide their regular insights into all aspects of the tour, and this year has been very enjoyable for their knowledge of French ecclesiastical architecture. 

Andy

[Metr0Land]

I'm only a casual observer as it's my wife that's really interested so I get to watch a lot of TdF as she has to put up with baseball.  Anyway, I have to say that I also am a bit surprised at the lack of comments.  In one way it's been a bit tame for a few days now with the GC but.......  there's only 29secs between 1st and 4th in the GC and that's never happened at this stage of the TdF before?  I know they're saying Froome should gain a minute in the time trials in Marseille but does no-one think any of the other 3 might 'go for it' sometime this week to make Froome's job harder?

[njee20]

They have to! He's among the best time trialists in the world, it's only a short TT, but even so, they have to go on the attack.

 

Bardet will go on the attack on the final descent on 17. Could be good, lets hope a crash doesn't decide the outcome. Expect attacks on the final climb of 18 too, that'll be Aru's chance I reckon.

[chris p bacon]

I liked the comment in the coverage that if you looked at yesterdays result and the one previous to that, you'd think that nothing happened yesterday.

 

I don't think Frome is a dead cert for the winner,  but yesterday shows that he can pull something back when all appears lost.

[njee20]

I'm not sure yesterday showed them that, quite the opposite. They should all know that the only way to beat Froome is to go all out, when he was attacked on stage 13 and couldn't go with the final moves. Actually, yesterday showed that even that may not be enough as he clawed his way back from a minute down!

 

I'm not sure Froome will risk an attack without provocation, although of course he will face provocation. As you say, everyone needs to attack him, he's sitting pretty as is, with the notional buffer from the TT to rely on. I think Bardet on the final descent of 17 is the biggest threat, but we know Froome can descend well when it's demanded of him.

[EddieB]

Wide open, I'd say. On Sunday, Froome showed considerable strength to pull back a deficit (made worse by his bike problem), but his team-mate Landa looks stronger than him and jeopardised his own GC contention to help Froome retain yellow.

 

The incident where Aru tried to jump Froome a few days ago won't have been forgotten, and with things as tight as they are, I think unwritten rules and gentlemen's agreements might be torn up when it comes to a raw fight for the top.

 

Not only are the top four within 30 seconds of each other, as I've said, I think Landa has more to give if he rides his own race, and Dan Martin (who has no right to be still in the race after that horrific crash) has started to claw back time.

 

And nobody seems to have considered Uran...

[john new]

Wide open, I'd say. On Sunday, Froome showed considerable strength to pull back a deficit (made worse by his bike problem), but his team-mate Landa looks stronger than him and jeopardised his own GC contention to help Froome retain yellow.

 

The incident where Aru tried to jump Froome a few days ago won't have been forgotten, and with things as tight as they are, I think unwritten rules and gentlemen's agreements might be torn up when it comes to a raw fight for the top.

 

Not only are the top four within 30 seconds of each other, as I've said, I think Landa has more to give if he rides his own race, and Dan Martin (who has no right to be still in the race after that horrific crash) has started to claw back time.

 

And nobody seems to have considered Uran...

 

The way Froome seems to attract mechanical issues when he's being attacked seems an unfortunate set of coincidences! I'm waiting to see how the unwritten "no attacks on the yellow jersey" convention holds up on the into Paris last day stage if there is an almost stalemate scenario after the time-trial. Predictable if Froome is behind on time going into the Marselles TT. Sunday is a shortish flat stage designed for the conventional long dawdle and then a sprint finish round the Champs Elysee; it would be interesting if a 2nd or 3rd placed GC contenders team went flat out from the off to try and get a big enough split before reaching Paris.

Edited July 18, 2017 by john new

[Leander]

And nobody seems to have considered Uran...

Froome told broadcasters that he considered the Colombian Rigoberto Urán to be a possible dark horse when it comes to the fight for overall victory in the Tour, which will move to the Alps for two stages on Wednesday and Thursday that include the Croix de Fer, Galibier and Izoard cols. The Colombian currently lies fourth overall, 29sec behind the Sky leader.

“Rigoberto Urán is more of the dark horse, he is probably the strongest time trialist of the GC riders, and with Marseille in mind, he’s a big threat,” said Froome, adding he expected the Colombian to finish on the podium in Paris. “He flies under the radar a bit because he doesn’t have a whole team at the front controlling the race for him, but he’s finished second in the Giro d’Italia, he’s certainly capable of backing up three weeks. He seems to be in great shape. I think Rigoberto is set to be on the podium and to challenge me for the yellow jersey.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/17/team-sky-sir-dave-brailsford-verbal-attack-cycling-journalist

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... I also am a bit surprised at the lack of comments...

 I was brought up on road cycle racing as the athletic sport above all others (continental European family) and love the spectacle.  But I don't believe the sport is clean, which knocks the heart out of it for me. (Reason: the competitors haven't slowed up any, so either all previous illegal medico-pharma technique that is now detectable was ineffective - or - currently undetectable abuses are occurring to give the performance advantage. The best solution by far is to  make it open: legally use whatever dope or technique you like that is openly declared on your entry form.)

[Butler Henderson]

The way Froome seems to attract mechanical issues when he's being attacked seems an unfortunate set of coincidences! I'm waiting to see how the unwritten "no attacks on the yellow jersey" convention holds up on the into Paris last day stage if there is an almost stalemate scenario after the time-trial.

Very very unlikely. The riders ride with each other all the time and breaching that protocol would be a case of breaching work etiquette. As we have seen in TdF this year riders who were challenging each other one day had to work together the next and hence a generally good relationship and compliance with the "unwritten rules" of the TdF is a forgone requirement. If someone did try to attack I would imagine other riders would quickly react and shut the attack down as happened the other day.

[njee20]

That aside I just don't fancy the chances of any GC rider managing to get any sort of gap on the Champs Elysees, you're talking about needing to win the flattest of all flat Stages, with a gap over the entire peloton.

[Daddyman]

 I was brought up on road cycle racing as the athletic sport above all others (continental European family) and love the spectacle.  But I don't believe the sport is clean, which knocks the heart out of it for me. (Reason: the competitors haven't slowed up any, so either all previous illegal medico-pharma technique that is now detectable was ineffective - or - currently undetectable abuses are occurring to give the performance advantage. The best solution by far is to  make it open: legally use whatever dope or technique you like that is openly declared on your entry form.)

You have absolutely zero evidence for this claim. You suggest that the fact that the speeds are still the same proves that doping is going on. It may be going on (though I suspect there would be a plethora of French minnows to alert us to that if it were), but speed is no proof either way. Technology, better training regimes and better racing sense account for a good part of the fact that speeds are as high as in the past. In fact, Boardman has shown in the programme today that the difference between 1980s technology and today's equates to about an hour advantage in the total time. However, his estimate of the advantage gained from a carbon frame was way too low - "a couple of watts". When I switched from steel to aluminium 17 years ago I noticed a 10-second-per-mile advantage, and that was only at 20-22 mph average speed. At TDF speeds it will be much greater - and greater still with carbon: a carbon bike waits for you; you wait for an aluminium one. 

 

Re technique, if you look at the videos of Lagos de Covadonga in the 1980s (the year Robert Millar won - can't remember off the top of my head), they're going up the climbs at about 75-80 rpm according to my (rough) reckoning. No wonder they burn out and their times are slower! Compare this with today's 90-100 rpm, which more and more teams are adopting/copying from Froome's team (I refuse to name their sponsor) - see, for example, Nibali at the Giro. 

 

As for training regimes, my brother worked for an Italian bike company supplying frames to a TDF team in the early 2000s, and their trade team, like most Italian teams at the time, had a training regime based on nothing more than brute force and ignorance. Their "knowledge" of training hadn't changed since the 1960s. There were no training camps, no knowledge of power, recovery, nothing. 

 

Then look at position on the bike: Armstrong's bike in 1999 had the stem way up at cycle tourist height - incredible. For all their doping expertise, they knew nowt about cycling. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Daddyman

[john new]

Very very unlikely. The riders ride with each other all the time and breaching that protocol would be a case of breaching work etiquette. As we have seen in TdF this year riders who were challenging each other one day had to work together the next and hence a generally good relationship and compliance with the "unwritten rules" of the TdF is a forgone requirement. If someone did try to attack I would imagine other riders would quickly react and shut the attack down as happened the other day.

I'm expecting it to hold too, but if there is only say a second between 1 & 2 there surely has to be some temptation and the teams very much vary in overall strength/rider numbers.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

You have absolutely zero evidence for this claim. You suggest that the fact that the speeds are still the same proves that doping is going on. It may be going on... 

Quite true, because that's the nature of undetectable abuse.

 

For me at least, the clear evidence that the sport as a whole condoned the now acknowledged abuses has left it permanently tainted. The reputation that has taken many years to earn, lost by proven conspiracy. You can repair the broken china plate, but the crack will always be there. It's over for me...

[njee20]

This is interesting, showing fastest times up Alpe d'Huez. Contador at the top, from 2010, when he was busted for clenbuterol in his "contaminated beef", then you have to go down to 15th for Quintana, then Pinot, and nothing else from the last 5 years in the top 40. Obviously not raced in a major race every year, but even so.

 

I'm sure there's still some drug abuse going on, there always will be in sport, there's so much money involved, some will always resort to any necessary means. I don't think it's anywhere near as rife as in past years, we see riders really hanging now and having genuine off days, rather than smashing out mountains day after day without it seemingly affected them.

 

This is also interesting showing average speeds of the tour. Yes ok there's be some variance depending on how much climbing, TTs, weather etc etc, but even so. It got markedly quicker from 1990 (admittedly coupled with a significant shortening of the race), then again at the end of the 90s, peaking in 2005 at the end of the Armstrong era. Then it's got quite a bit slower again.

[john new]

Yes, the 'omerta' of having the last day as a luxury touring-day until the local circuit starts has been breached before, but at considerable expense of the one breaching it. Riders have been physically knocked of their bike by the 'patron' after they got caught.   (this was 1960/70/80's, in a time before live broadcasts of the entire stage with camera's and (biased) jury members everywhere) Others were deemed outcasts in the next TdF or even in the Vuelta and/or Giro.

 

According to those who where present at the time, some of whom are now no longer with us so not reliably verifiable

Excellent stage today. Guess the green jersey issue now resolved so much less likelihood of any last day shenanigans being in amongst the scrapping and scrabbling for the last few maillot jaune points.

[Bernard Lamb]

This is interesting, showing fastest times up Alpe d'Huez. Contador at the top, from 2010, when he was busted for clenbuterol in his "contaminated beef", then you have to go down to 15th for Quintana, then Pinot, and nothing else from the last 5 years in the top 40. Obviously not raced in a major race every year, but even so.

 

 

Very interesting, thanks.

Induran comes out rather well.

Tactics seem to be different these days which might explain some of the anomalies, with a preference for a late attack rather than going hard from the start.

Funnily enough Induran is one of the few former top riders who is probably as fit in retirement as he was in his prime.

I saw him a few years ago on the Toumalet and he had ridden out, done the climb and was going to ride home, giving a ride of a bit over the 100 mile mark.

Bernard