Pre-Group Welsh Railways - A Few Questions

[Devo63]

I couldn't decide if I should post this here or under the Railways of Wales section.

 

I am currently attempting to built at least one locomotive from each of the absorded companies, that came into Great Western ownership at the Grouping, in their original liveries. I have a fair amount of information on some of the bigger concerns like the TVR and Barry etc. but for some of the smaller ones I have come up against a brick wall regarding details.

 

My first query is regarding Cardiff Railway 2-4-2T no. 36 "The Earl of Dumfries". I am planning on having some custom etched plates made up by Narrow Planet for this loco and would like to finish it as it looked when first purchased from the LNWR in 1914. The only photo I have is the one in Russell in which you can see that it is lined. Does anyone know if it was painted with standard LNWR type lining or some other style and colours? The only reason I chose no. 36 was that I have a built up and unpainted white metal model of this type sitting in my "to do" pile.

 

The second question relates to the Neath & Brecon Railway. I'm looking for information regarding the red livery and suitable colours or mixes from the larger commercial paint ranges. Being in Australia I can no longer buy Precision Paints. The only model paints I have generally available are Humbrol, Revell, Tamiya and Mr.Colour. Automotive paints are another option.

 

My final question is also for the N&BR. Once again I am planning on having plates made by Narrow Planet. I know the number plates are oval in shape with quite large numerals. What I can't make out from the few pre 1922/23 photographs is the lettering around the edge. Can anyone tell me if this is the company name in full or just the initials?

 

Dave. R   

[John_Miles]

Sorry can't help you with  the Cardiff Railway question. For the N&B, the experts rely on anecdotal evidence from old railwaymen which has been passed down by word of mouth so there is no definitive answer. The evidence says the engines were a rich red / brown lined in black with a fine yellow line. Buffer beams were vermillion lined yellow. The main engine colour is quoted as being similar to the Barry and the B&M so if you have already built locos for these companies, I suggest you use the same paint.

[Devo63]

Sorry can't help you with  the Cardiff Railway question. For the N&B, the experts rely on anecdotal evidence from old railwaymen which has been passed down by word of mouth so there is no definitive answer. The evidence says the engines were a rich red / brown lined in black with a fine yellow line. Buffer beams were vermillion lined yellow. The main engine colour is quoted as being similar to the Barry and the B&M so if you have already built locos for these companies, I suggest you use the same paint.

Thanks for the info John. I'll try and mix the paint similar to a batch I previously did for the Barry. I haven't as yet decided on which Brecon & Merthyr loco I want to build but I may mix up enough paint for that as well as the Neath & Brecon model currently under build. Now I need to try and find some suitable transfers for the lining - I'm a bit to unsteady in the hands these days to hand line my models.

 

Dave R.

[Poggy1165]

If you get stuck I suggest you have a word with the Welsh Railways Research Circle. At one point they published a listing of suggested livery colours for all (or most) of the Welsh railways. They even suggested what number Humbrol/Revell/etc. was a good match. (Indeed, for £15 a year (I think) you may find it worth joining them.)

 

I had a copy of this but I don't seem to be able to find it. It's a long time since I had the need to paint a Welsh wagon.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Poggy1165

[John_Miles]

I had a chat with Tudor Watkins yesterday who is the world expert on the N&B (there's not a lot of competition) and he said either Furness or North Staffs Madder Lake with a bit of brown added. He has built almost every type of N&B loco except for the Fairlies.

Edited July 8, 2017 by John_Miles

[corneliuslundie]

Unfortunately the WRRC data sheet has nothing about the Neath & Brecon.

Beware that the Barry Railway loco colour changed over time, ending up, according to a retired railwayman as similar to the colour much later used on Western class diesels. Earlier I have the impression it was a browner colour.

Great Western Way, most recent edition, says that from engine no 4 onward locos were painted a rich reddish brown, lined in black with fine yellow lines either side. Buffer beams were vermilion lined in yellow. Loco no 4 at least in one photo had wheels, cab steps and outside cylinders the same colour as the body but the colour of the frames is impossible to determine. The valance plate shows up as a lighter colour than the body and may have been vermilion. There is more detail of the lining in the book.

As far as number plates is concerned, the style seems to have changed over the years, later ones having two raised borders, one round the number and the other around the edge of the plate with lettering between. At least one loco, no 6, had NEATH & BRECON above the number and RAILWAY below.

It is evident from the text, which is too long to quote, that the amount of lining varied over the years, as did the shape of numberplate.

GWW does not say anything about the livery of the Cardiff Railway loco, only that it had straight nameplates but no numberplates.

Jonathan

Edited July 23, 2017 by corneliuslundie