martin_l_jones Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I purchased the GWR version and have to agree Bachmann have made a really good job of it. I had a few issues when I unboxed mine, wheel sets loose on the leading and trailing bogies, a lose detail item and bent connectors. Managed to sort all those and it runs superbly using a Lenz Decoder. Only one issue which looks as though one of the roof top detail bits as either been positioned incorrectly or moved during the adhesive curing period. Left the adhesive marks. To be honest it's really disappointing that it's not been picked up during QC. I'm just wondering whether I'm being too pedantic... I know one of my panels wouldn't have got to Hitachi in that condition... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 23/12/2019 at 12:47, Richard Croft said: I've been told that it's the PCB which makes the cab lights directional, not the decoder so unfortunately theres no way of making the front cab illuminate without putting it in reverse. Very disappointing that a mistake like that made it through to production on a model which took so long to develop. In every other area its a brilliant model though. Hopefully its changed for future runs when they do other liveries. Richard Richards correct on this one sadly, its a circuit board issue as the Cab Light should be on while the driver does his pre startup checks etc. Its possible to re-wire the LED but one decoder makes this awkward. Charlie Legomanbiffo Team. PPS Our 158 Project is now finished with 56 Destination announcements available plus a Scottish Version for those 'Up North' 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs233 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 12 hours ago, martin_l_jones said: Only one issue which looks as though one of the roof top detail bits as either been positioned incorrectly or moved during the adhesive curing period. Left the adhesive marks. To be honest it's really disappointing that it's not been picked up during QC. I'm just wondering whether I'm being too pedantic... I know one of my panels wouldn't have got to Hitachi in that condition... Very common after examining a number of RR units in my friendly sympathetic local store had to pass on the first two due to various defects, there were issues with the lighter blue stripe that had marks and had not been applied consistently. The glazing on one also had a mark that did not seem rub off. Settled on the third unit which still had some broken livery application especially with the door frame being picked out but it was the best of the bunch, have since touched this up with a black marker. The QC process does have issues considering the price but this is the same for all makers really. With the price rises in recent years I see no improvement in the QC process. As an example I purchased in 2004 the older Bachmann 158 31-500A which was old new stock at the time for £45 this also had various QC issues, some things will never change especially for mass produced disposable items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Foden Posted January 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2020 13 hours ago, charliepetty said: Richards correct on this one sadly, its a circuit board issue as the Cab Light should be on while the driver does his pre startup checks etc. Its possible to re-wire the LED but one decoder makes this awkward. Charlie Legomanbiffo Team. PPS Our 158 Project is now finished with 56 Destination announcements available plus a Scottish Version for those 'Up North' Excellent news, held off from buying the sound fitted example for this news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMafia Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Foden said: Excellent news, held off from buying the sound fitted example for this news. Likewise. A video would be nice, imagine Roads and Rails will have one up soon? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, SouthernMafia said: Likewise. A video would be nice, imagine Roads and Rails will have one up soon? he put one up already with an upgraded speaker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, meatloaf said: he put one up already with an upgraded speaker I think SM is referring to a DC Kits/Legomanbiffo sound project. Roads and Rails existing video is of the Bachmann sound file with upgraded speaker Edited January 2, 2020 by newbryford 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIK Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 14 hours ago, cs233 said: Very common after examining a number of RR units in my friendly sympathetic local store had to pass on the first two due to various defects, there were issues with the lighter blue stripe that had marks and had not been applied consistently. The glazing on one also had a mark that did not seem rub off. Settled on the third unit which still had some broken livery application especially with the door frame being picked out but it was the best of the bunch, have since touched this up with a black marker. The QC process does have issues considering the price but this is the same for all makers really. With the price rises in recent years I see no improvement in the QC process. As an example I purchased in 2004 the older Bachmann 158 31-500A which was old new stock at the time for £45 this also had various QC issues, some things will never change especially for mass produced disposable items. Hi, I thought the reason given for the recent price rises of RTR model railways that don't seem to have happened with other products was that they weren't mass produced. Regards Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMafia Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, newbryford said: I think SM is referring to a DC Kits/Legomanbiffo sound project. Roads and Rails existing video is of the Bachmann sound file with upgraded speaker Yes what he said. I'm likely going to get one anyway but always nice to 'hear before you buy'. I actually wasn't that impressed by the Bachmann sound, but I guess it's more TTS quality than full blown Biffo quality. Edited January 2, 2020 by SouthernMafia 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, NIK said: I thought the reason given for the recent price rises of RTR model railways that don't seem to have happened with other products was that they weren't mass produced. That depends on your definition of 'mass produced'. Model railway items are 'mass produced' in the context that they are not bespoke custom products where every item is a hand finished work of art. Each production run will be several hundred or even several thousand items for which only a small proportion will be checked for quality control purposes. However, they are not mass produced to the same extent as say an i-phone, for which there will be hundreds of thousands of each model produced and sold worldwide. Therefore model railways don't benefit from the same economies of scale as some other goods and a model railway manufacturer is unlikely to be able to exercise the same pricing pressure for what in global terms are relatively small production runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIK Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Dungrange said: That depends on your definition of 'mass produced'. Model railway items are 'mass produced' in the context that they are not bespoke custom products where every item is a hand finished work of art. Each production run will be several hundred or even several thousand items for which only a small proportion will be checked for quality control purposes. However, they are not mass produced to the same extent as say an i-phone, for which there will be hundreds of thousands of each model produced and sold worldwide. Therefore model railways don't benefit from the same economies of scale as some other goods and a model railway manufacturer is unlikely to be able to exercise the same pricing pressure for what in global terms are relatively small production runs. Hi, I was quoting CS233's reference to mass production as I was confused as to the linking of the phrase mass production to items whose increased price is now justified on the grounds that they are not mass produced. I've worked in a factory that had an injection moulding machine but I never worked in Triang/Hornby even when they were producing a small range of locos. As various commentators have mentioned the range of model loco classes in particular has expanded a lot whilst the cost of UK housing has gone up. If the average UK wage earner had more spare cash then cost of model railways might be less of a consideration for model railway manufacturers. As to quality control mobile phones and the like may have more qualities in common that can be checked by automated equipment than model railway items. Regards Nick Edited January 3, 2020 by NIK clarification Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 11 hours ago, NIK said: I was quoting CS233's reference to mass production as I was confused as to the linking of the phrase mass production to items whose increased price is now justified on the grounds that they are not mass produced. I don't think there is any specific definition of 'mass production' and I think it can be taken to mean slightly different things in different contexts. The price issue is all about batch sizes and therefore the purchasing power of those placing the orders. The factories in China will have a cost associated with producing any item (labour and materials) and on top of that they will add a margin to ensure that their manufacturing facilities make a profit. Those placing an order for their services (eg Bachmann or Apple) will try to seek a discount on that margin. The low volume client (eg any model railway 'manufacturer'), when looking for a discount on a production run of say 2,000 units, will likely be told to 'get lost' or be given a nominal discount for their continued custom. Without a high volume discount, the cost of models will therefore rise in line with Chinese production costs, which are largely governed by rising labour costs, which have been increasing by double digit percentage increases in recent years. That is what we have tended to see in the pricing of model railway items over the last decade. However, the high volume client such as Apple, who may be placing an order for 750,000 units or more, will be able to extract a higher discount from the production facilities and if they are able to increase their production runs from say 750,000 to 1,000,000 units, then they may also be able to negotiate a larger discount. Any increase in the discount that they are able to negotiate through increased production volumes will tend to negate an increase in labour and materials cost and therefore there will be less price inflation for a product where batch sizes are increasing. The opposite has been happening in the model railway world where increased choice has led to falling batch volumes, thereby eroding the power of model railway 'manufacturers' to negotiate volume discounts. In the context of quality control, virtually all model railway items are 'mass produced', which is simply a term for not being 'hand made'. That it the models are being produced in batches and a sample of these are 'checked' and if these are considered okay, then the whole batch is considered to be 'okay'. Remember also that those who are doing the 'checking' are probably not interested in the model that they are checking (ie it's a toy train that represents a foreign locomotive that they have never seen in reality), so they are looking at it with a less critical eye than some of the end purchasers in the UK who are going to moan about the shade of paint being 'wrong' or not wrapping round the body like the prototype. They have images of what they are supposed to be producing - do they think it looks like the images that they have been given? Yes - then it's time to ship them to the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted January 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2020 13 hours ago, SouthernMafia said: Yes what he said. I'm likely going to get one anyway but always nice to 'hear before you buy'. I actually wasn't that impressed by the Bachmann sound, but I guess it's more TTS quality than full blown Biffo quality. it "seems" from what i can actually hear because its far too quiet...that its much better than the standard sounds Bachmann factory fitted models have had previously....The other being the 101 which is actually pretty good for a factory fit model and its a decent volume.... going to be interesting to re-blow it, because im not sure BIFFO do zimo projects....happy to be corrected though, i guess that leaves Paul Chetter and the digitrains folk if they have a 158 project. However....it does have some of the hallmarks of a Paul Chetter project so i wouldn't be surprised if it was his.....again happy to be corrected. Still im glad they have seen the light and gone back to easily reblowable decoders.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 20 hours ago, SouthernMafia said: Yes what he said. I'm likely going to get one anyway but always nice to 'hear before you buy'. I actually wasn't that impressed by the Bachmann sound, but I guess it's more TTS quality than full blown Biffo quality. apologies thought you meant the factory fitted sound Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 03/01/2020 at 13:35, pheaton said: it "seems" from what i can actually hear because its far too quiet...that its much better than the standard sounds Bachmann factory fitted models have had previously....The other being the 101 which is actually pretty good for a factory fit model and its a decent volume.... going to be interesting to re-blow it, because im not sure BIFFO do zimo projects....happy to be corrected though, i guess that leaves Paul Chetter and the digitrains folk if they have a 158 project. However....it does have some of the hallmarks of a Paul Chetter project so i wouldn't be surprised if it was his.....again happy to be corrected. Still im glad they have seen the light and gone back to easily reblowable decoders.... Legomanbiffo only does projects on ESU, the 158 is on the Plux 22 V5. The project listings are below: NEW PluX 22 Bachmann Project F0 Day Time Front Running Lights (If F20 is off) F1 Engines On/Off. CV259=228, CV443=160 F2 Playable High Note Horn. CV267=228 F3 Playable Low Note Horn. CV275=228 F4 Passenger Doors Open / Close. CV291=200 F5 Manual Brake (When Moving) Brake Dump (When Stationery). CV291=200 F6 Drivers door open/close. CV299=228 F7 Compressor Speed Up. F8 Toilet Discharge/Flush. CV315=200 F9 Speed Dependant Auto Flange / Wheel Squeel. CV323=228 F10 Despatch Whistle. CV331=228 F11 Guard to Driver 'Right of Way signal' & Optional Reply. CV339=200 F12 Interior Lights. F13 Sanders. CV355=228 F14 Automatic Coupling/Uncoupling. CV363=228 F15 Passenger Announcements Set 1 CV371=128 F16 Passenger Announcements Set 2 CV379=128 F17 Passenger Announcements Set 3 (Only on English) CV387=128 F18 Speed Dependant Detonators. CV395=228 F19 Directional Cab Light. CV427=190 CAB LIGHTING: (Please note this operates rear cab only due to incorrect Bachmann Wiring) F20 Night Time Running on Front Lights (If F0 is off). F21 Disable all lights at End A. F22 Disable all lights at End B. F23 Air Conditioning. CV451=228 F24 Windscreen Wipers. CV459=228 F25 Desk Open/Close. CV467=228 F26 NRN Radio Test. CV475=228 The New project is on sale late this month using the all new version of the PluX 22 from ESU. Non Sound PluX 22 decoders are available now. The Zimo Projects for the 158 are available from DigiTrains either by mailorder or at Shows. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Does this allow unit to sit in station with red lights on at both ends? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) Heres my quick review of the Bachmann 158, against the prototype and the predecessor model. I have demonstrated also how I fitted an NEM coupling to mine to give it interoperability with my other units. It has a visible underfloor working drive shaft just like the real thing. I like the working BSI, but not the coupling / uncoupling of them (ive fitted an NEM slot for now). Also like that its twin powered units (motor in each), but 1 of these will only work when connected to the other... so without a rewire, plus changing both couplings (BSI and 8 pin) you wont be running a 3 car GWR one anytime soon. Not very heavy, but then neither are the real thing. Overall.. I like them, think the price is reasonable for what your getting, I will add newer liveries to my fleet, but my older ones in older liveries are going nowhere.. I cant justify a tradein /upgrade, indeed on bodysides/under-frame from a quick glance I couldn't spot any difference beyond paint (cab seams excepted), though the drivers cab end shape is improved. if your DCC though you will want the upgrade. Edited January 14, 2020 by adb968008 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raetiamann Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Has anyone heard when the next batch is due to hit the shops? As the first delivery quickly sold out, the suggestion was January for the next, but we're fast approaching February. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter123 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Rails have got them all in stock....unless you want sound? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_l_jones Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) On 14/01/2020 at 00:17, adb968008 said: if your DCC though you will want the upgrade. The current one's are easy to upgrade to DCC. An 8 pin Hattons wired decoder for both cars will only cost you £30. I've added some piccies in the DCC fitting guide sections. Also added additional pick ups to the non powered car. Edited January 24, 2020 by martin_l_jones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, martin_l_jones said: The current one's are easy to upgrade to DCC. An 8 pin Hattons wired decoder for both cars will only cost you £30. I've added some piccies in the DCC fitting guide sections. Also added additional pick ups to the non powered car. I agree nearly any rtr model is easy to upgrade to DCC, its just adding a harness to the existing wiring. However the electrics onboard the new model offer quite a lot of options for a DCC user (but less so for a DC person like myself). As a DC user I cannot take advantage of door / cab and interior light controls, including the Orange door lights, directional lights etc... I just get what I got in the original version.. lights on, off when power is on (there is also manual off /on switch)... DCC users get this. The earlier model doesnt offer any lighting control beyond directional lights, which indeed they may not be suitable for AC DCC operation and may need some extra wiring off of the 12v directional outputs of the DCC chip’s DC output to the motor (or live without lights) to continue to use them on DCC. For me however (and it pains me to say it), when viewing side on of the old and new models, besides the tampo printing (and that door seam), the old bodyside and chassis toolings look near enough the same... the cab ends are better. For those reasons I wont “trade up” and will keep my old 158’s, theres not enough there (and can’t think of anything they could put there), for me as a DC user to upgrade at least £145 difference after selling my old one, to trade up to the new one in older liveries. For comparison, the difference however between Lima 156 and Realtrack 156 in Provincial livery is much more compelling in this case as theres huge differences in body sides, underframe details, lighting, motor performance that as a DC user I get, that the Lima one does not offer. I have nothing against the new class 158 i’m happy with my GWR / EMT ones, indeed they are great eye candy, but whilst I wont be going for a NSE or SWT 159, the old one looks close enough, runs just as well and gives me some lighting. I would make space in my collection for a Northern or Saltire Scotrail one if they were ever to be announced. in summary for DC users, the new one is good, the old one wasnt bad, for DCC users, the new one offers quite a bit more than the old. From what I have seen on the 158, I suspect my thoughts on the 150 and 170 will probably end up along similar lines. Finally as for price dont think of it as a DMU, it has twin motors.. think of it as 2 locomotives then you see the price isnt bad... unlike say the Hornby 156 which is single powered, and a basic a railroad loco and coach. Edited January 24, 2020 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 I’ve recently received my EMT Class 158 and I’m surprised that it hasn’t included it’s vinyl nameplate. The model of 158773 should be carrying the name “Eastcroft Depot” but unfortunately isn’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, jools1959 said: I’ve recently received my EMT Class 158 and I’m surprised that it hasn’t included it’s vinyl nameplate. The model of 158773 should be carrying the name “Eastcroft Depot” but unfortunately isn’t. I don't know for certain but perhaps the nameplate is a later addition on the prototype? Al Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) Applied in October 2015................. 2-3 years or so after Bachmann announced the EMT 158............... Edited January 24, 2020 by newbryford 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 158773 was announced by Bachmann in 2013.. 31-518 Class 158 2 Car DMU 158773 East Midlands Trains £129.95 interesting reading looking down the list.. https://www.facebook.com/modelrail/posts/Bachmann-website-doesnt-give-the-full-extent-of-the-new-ranges-for-201314-here-a/10151359850978207/ 158773 was originally a Provincial sprinter, then Regional Railways branded, later became one of Northerns Maroon & Gold ones. From what I see, It moved to Central trains and wore Central branding, but the old Northern livery from 2007 until April 2010. 158773 was named in October 2015 158773 was denamed and rebranded EMR Regional in August 2019 158773 was repainted in October 2019 into base grey with Orange doors. so the model covers April 2010 until October 2015, with the nameplate you can change that from October 2015 until August 2019 Edited January 24, 2020 by adb968008 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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