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Bachmann Class 158 Status

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A shot of the 158 samples from Warley yesterday. Spoke to one of the reps in the lounge as they were keen to see what items I was interested in and apparently they’re expected to arrive in the middle of next year. 
 

Warley NEC


cheers Peter

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2 hours ago, Pedro32 said:

A shot of the 158 samples from Warley yesterday. Spoke to one of the reps in the lounge as they were keen to see what items I was interested in and apparently they’re expected to arrive in the middle of next year. 
 

Warley NEC


cheers Peter

 

I’m kind of hoping that Bachmann DON’T announce anything for 2020 and just get on and produce the stuff that they have been promising over the last few years.  I can’t believe that it’s taken 5 years from announcement to this far, even with Bachmann’s issues but that beyond belief.

 

 I’ve generally preferred Bachmann’s products over Hornby but with the likes of Accurascale, Cavelex, revamped Heljan and a few other’s, I just feel Bachmann are resting on their laurels and in danger of losing out to the new manufacturers.

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8 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

 

... I can’t believe that it’s taken 5 years from announcement to this far, even with Bachmann’s issues but that beyond belief.

...


It’s actually worse than that: 7 years since announcement, so 8 years until it’s now scheduled to be in the shops (though Bachmann’s site claims it’s due in February 2020 rather than the summer date referred to above).

 

Paul

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17 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

I’m kind of hoping that Bachmann DON’T announce anything for 2020

 

To the sound of this forum wailing and gnashing their teeth at the lack of new announcements presumably.

18 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

I just feel Bachmann are resting on their laurels and in danger of losing out to the new manufacturers.

 

The 158 has, as they have admitted several times. taken longer than it should. Partly this is down to the Chinese factory problems and partly down to a massive improvement in the specification to that originally planned.

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34 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

To the sound of this forum wailing and gnashing their teeth at the lack of new announcements presumably.

 

The 158 has, as they have admitted several times. taken longer than it should. Partly this is down to the Chinese factory problems and partly down to a massive improvement in the specification to that originally planned.

 

I wasn’t “wailing or gnashing of my teeth”, I was just expressing my dismay at the time taken on not just the Class 158, but other items as well.  I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one in this respect.

 

I think 99.9% of people are aware of the issues Bachmann had with their factory and China raising the minimum wages but it would have been helpful if Bachmann had given regular updates as it seemed like pulling teeth to get any information.

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Just now, jools1959 said:

 

I wasn’t “wailing or gnashing of my teeth”, I was just expressing my dismay at the time taken on not just the Class 158, but other items as well.  I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one in this respect.

 

I think 99.9% of people are aware of the issues Bachmann had with their factory and China raising the minimum wages but it would have been helpful if Bachmann had given regular updates as it seemed like pulling teeth to get any information.

 

It's not all about you. Look at any of the recent announcements over the last few years and you'll find plenty of people moaning there isn't anything in it for them and there's nothing new or exciting. Those are followed by others saying that it's good the manufacturers are catching up.

 

We provide a lot of updates on RMweb and in BRM. There are at least 2 official briefings a year plus details in the collectors club magazine that tend to be spread here too - do you want a daily running commentary?

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I had an interesting hour and a half with Bachmann on Sunday morning and covered off nearly all of the 'issues' with the 158.

 

This is always going to be a chicken and egg scenario because WE, the customer want everything yesterday, and therefore without us, there would be nobody to buy the product, and on the flip side, Bachmann the manufacturer don't want to be producing something that won't sell, or is miles off the mark, so it was very intuitive listening to the whole process from start to finish, and they've certainly had a few hurdles to overcome. Unless you actually work in the industry, it's very easy to assume things that are completely wrong....which unfortunately, most of us do.

 

The model itself, now that I've had a chance to pick it up and pull it apart, is good....in fact, it's VERY good and almost worthy of it's price tag (personally, I think £260 for a two car unit is a lot of money but that doesn't change my opinion of the model). The green livery is a faithful representation of the real thing, and the printing is sublime - using the zoom function on my phone camera (which wasn't ideal) I could read everything and the GWR logo is exactly as it should be. There's still some black missing from the cab front, which is a little odd considering the person responsible for making sure everything is right, is even more anal than I am! The under-frame detail is way better than its predecessor, with all of the right equipment in the right place and with perfect detail. The bogies have pickups on every wheel set (or at least they did on this one) and the new interconnecting coupling makes things much better for DCC operation.

 

SO, to the DCC functions. They really have pushed the boat out with this, daylight running lights, night time running lights, cab lights, destination illumination, interior lighting, and..........central door locking lights! I forgot to ask if it needed a special chip to operate it but I'm sure we'll find out in due course.  

 

Ok, there's still a couple of little niggles - the previously mentioned 'missing' black on the cab fronts, the front air dam being not quite right (to accommodate the NEM coupling), and that odd raised moulding where the cab joins the body, but I could live with it, and I'm sure plenty of other people could too. I know it's been a long time coming, and they've said they're going to address how they announce things in the future, but we should have it first quarter next year.

 

I absolutely slated this 158 when I first saw it, but now the guys (and girls) at Bachmann have allowed me to rip them apart, and in their defence, give a solid account of things, I think it's a good addition to their range. It's still top heavy in terms of price, and when you compare it to another similar unit that's just been produced, it definitely looks overpriced, but I'm sure it'll be more favourable at some of the well known retailers, making it a fantastic value for money unit.

 

Would I buy one? Hmmmm................................................................. I think I would! 

Edited by scoobyra
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On 24/11/2019 at 10:05, jools1959 said:

I’m kind of hoping that Bachmann DON’T announce anything for 2020...

 

I am hoping the opposite for the class 158 in 2020. What would really please, is that in secret Bachmann have produced three or four additional liveries to be announced in the 2020/21 catalogue in early Jan and released in Feb/Mar with the current expected models. Of course, I am more than willing to wait for half a year-18 months for more liveries, but come on! Give me:

 

Wessex Trains 'Alphaline' 158 

First Great Western 'Local Lines' 158/9 (3-car)

South Western Railway 'Stripes' 158

South West Trains (red doors) 159/0

South West Trains (orange doors) 159/1

Transport for Wales/Wales and Borders (white) 158

 

I am sure a Northern (Arriva) 'DfT Grey' 158 and a Scotrail (bubbles) 158 would be rather popular as these are current too. 

 

Plus, the comment up post..."What has happened to the GWR 150/2". I wonder that too! Perhaps for us patient lot shall be rewarded by a Wessex Trains 150/2 in 2020 :D:D:D:D

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1 hour ago, 159220 said:

Plus, the comment up post..."What has happened to the GWR 150/2". I wonder that too! Perhaps for us patient lot shall be rewarded by a Wessex Trains 150/2 in 2020 :D:D:D:D

I think the 150/2 tooling is being adjusted to replicate the ones which have received PRM mods so toilet window blanked off, retention tanks etc which would be completely wrong for Wessex or any of the early liveries.

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On 24/11/2019 at 05:05, jools1959 said:

 

I’m kind of hoping that Bachmann DON’T announce anything for 2020 and just get on and produce the stuff that they have been promising over the last few years.  I can’t believe that it’s taken 5 years from announcement to this far, even with Bachmann’s issues but that beyond belief.

 

 I’ve generally preferred Bachmann’s products over Hornby but with the likes of Accurascale, Cavelex, revamped Heljan and a few other’s, I just feel Bachmann are resting on their laurels and in danger of losing out to the new manufacturers.

 

But a good way of "losing out to the new manufacturers" is to not announce any new products.

 

Bachmann already essentially took 2019 off to catch up (cancelled items, only a freight wagon and some 009 stuff as new tooling), they can't take a second year off particularly with the amount of stuff being grabbed by their competition.

 

As for "resting on the laurels", some of the delays are because Bachmann, seeing where the market was headed, stopped the development process and seriously upgraded the specification of the model to be able to better meet what the current market wants (I think the 158 might well be one such example).

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From my understanding and if the Bachmann 2019 brochure is correct (tongue in cheek here) that both the Class 158 and Class 170's are to have working BSI couplers at the outer ends. I wonder if this will be rolled out to the Bachmann Class 150/1 and Class 150/2 models in the future to unify compatibility? That could be interesting and if Bachmann sells the working BSI couplers as a NEM version or a kit. Perhaps it could be retrofitted to other makes of DMU's like the Hornby Class 153 and the Realtrack Class 156 perhaps? 

 

Just some food for thought there.

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That certainly would be nice! It should however be of a design that doesn't require the trains to be lifted from the track for detaching.

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On ‎26‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 14:35, mdvle said:

But a good way of "losing out to the new manufacturers" is to not announce any new products.

 

But that doesn't really work.

Their 66 is pretty good but that didn't stop Hornby or Hattons re-making it.

Hornby didn't hang around with their tooling for the Terrier either, yet Rails of Sheffield has invested too much to stop theirs.

 

Just because one manufacturer has announced something, doesn't mean anyone else won't do it.

 

The problem with Bachman of late has been their deliverability of product.

I half understand the reasons why but that's what happens when you simply announce too much than you can realistically handle, and continue to announce new products when it's clear there will be problems.

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14 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

But that doesn't really work.

Their 66 is pretty good but that didn't stop Hornby or Hattons re-making it.

Hornby didn't hang around with their tooling for the Terrier either, yet Rails of Sheffield has invested too much to stop theirs.

 

Actually, with the Terrier Hornby did.  Hornby ignored it for years despite requests for an updated version so eventually Rails of Sheffield stepped up and announced one and proceeded.

 

Hornby then reacted to that, and rushed a new Terrier into production, because Hornby viewed the Terrier as "theirs", hence its last minute announcement earlier this year.

 

The problem for Bachmann (and Hornby) is that we currently are, thanks to the abundance of manufacturers and retailers doing models in the UK market, experiencing a rapid retooling of models to a modern standard.  So far in just over the last 12 months we have seen the 37, 45, 47, 55, 86, 91, 92  picked off with the Hornby announcement just over a month away.

 

Some of those models could perhaps support a second entry in the new tooling category, but most really can't (though they will support a lower priced option is someone can meet the price points).

 

How many more models will be taken if Bachmann waits until 2021 to announce anything new?

 

Quote

Just because one manufacturer has announced something, doesn't mean anyone else won't do it.

 

With a few exceptions, duplication will mean that 2 or more passed a financial point of no return before the competitors product became public with the result that all involved will suffer lower financial returns on their investment (and depending on the model perhaps a loss).

 

Yes, some models can perhaps support 2 newly tooled versions and still generate reasonable profits (perhaps the 47/57), but a 55 or 92 likely can't because there just wouldn't be sufficient demand, particularly when older lower cost models are also available.

 

Quote

The problem with Bachman of late has been their deliverability of product.

I half understand the reasons why but that's what happens when you simply announce too much than you can realistically handle, and continue to announce new products when it's clear there will be problems.

 

But product is now finally moving through their new product development/production pipeline.

 

Given that your typical new tooled model takes 2 to 3 years from start to delivery Bachmann is at the stage where they need to have stuff in the pipeline for 2021 (and perhaps late 2020) or they won't have anything new available, and they may find they need to insert something into the middle of the queue in order to stake a claim to a model before someone else does.

Edited by mdvle

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7 hours ago, mdvle said:

How many more models will be taken if Bachmann waits until 2021 to announce anything new?

 

I'm not saying Bachmann shouldn't announce anything new - just being weary of their current workload.

However in the same token, there are hundreds of un-modelled examples out there - particularly modern units.

Said it before, the Electrostar range could easily be done as once you have the basis, there's just a few tweaks for a whole host of classes - even ranging into the 172 without much effort.

 

Staking a claim doesn't mean (like Hornby), someone else can't make it, and perhaps make it quicker than the original claimant.

 

The other problem is loss of interest.

I was all set to buy an N2 loco.  However by the time the black livery had come out, my interest (and money) had moved elsewhere.  I get some people would wait 10 years for something but there will be missed sales.

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Kernow are showing these as in latest arrivals with stock due tomorrow according to website.

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Looking forward to this. A couple of close ups of the RR liveried example to wet the appetite.

4180B6E2-C56C-49FB-ACC0-CD267BF5D9B9.jpeg

E6D125F4-4339-4F31-97E5-3ED26F49DE5A.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, Foden said:

Looking forward to this. A couple of close ups of the RR liveried example to wet the appetite.

 

E6D125F4-4339-4F31-97E5-3ED26F49DE5A.jpeg

Lovely -  and weren't we good at coming up with seriously smart liveries for DMUs back in the day... 

A really nice touch i loved on Bachmanns MPV was they modelled the inboard brake discs on the axles - its a real shame they didn't carry that detail over onto the 158 - a nice little aftermarket detail for someone to come up with perhaps :)

 

Jon 

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All three versions of the class 158 in stock at Olivia trains. Took a few years to come out but Well done Bachmann.

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9 hours ago, Walkes07 said:

All three versions of the class 158 in stock at Olivia trains. Took a few years to come out but Well done Bachmann.

 

Interesting...

I see they list ESU Select and ESU V5 as sound choices.

 

I guess the Select version is a ESU V4............ (AFAIIA, there is no V5 Select)

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1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Interesting...

I see they list ESU Select and ESU V5 as sound choices.

 

I guess the Select version is a ESU V4............ (AFAIIA, there is no V5 Select)

 

often Olivia’s strip out existing DCC sound and replace it with their own. If anybody has one of these can they confirm what the Bachmann supplied chip is?

 

edit - 

the options at Olivias site suggest Bachman supply a select but Olivias can supply a v5

Edited by stationroad

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An email from Rails this morning with various new Bachmann loco's, including the class 158. 

 

Most are for pre-orders, but there are a few left for buying now. More stock in January.

 

Rob

Edited by mezzoman253
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