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Bachmann Class 158 Status

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I'll be surprised if Bachmann don't produce pretty much every livery over the next 5/6 years.

 

But then they should ramp up available liveries as it would appear to be a fairly good success for them.

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18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I’m not sure I’d agree, but maybe I’m just old...

 

Ive got the previous tooled 158, and side to side, I don’t see too much difference. Sure the underframe paint job is better, and I think the front end looks better, but the majority of improvement is under the hood.

 

I don’t mind updating models based on improved appearance, but as a DC modeller, theres not much under the hood in it for me, and £150+ difference trading in an old one doesn’t stack up.

 

I’ve decided to keep my older liveries, they run fine, sit well, but new liveries that haven’t been made previously... then there’s interest to me.
 

Am I in minority.. I don’t know, but  it feels like GWR and EMT seem to have come, gone and returned, but provincial seems to have been constantly available.

 

16 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I don't think that would be the right thing to do.

 

The BR liveries were around for a while in a very popular era so I see why these have been done already (RR in 158, NSE in 159) I don't think going through a back catalogue of liveries that has already been done and a lot of people will already have doesn't make the most businesses sense IMO. The easiest ones to sell will be ones that haven't been done before.

 

I was mainly thinking about the timespan/lifespan that Northern trains wore the purple livery. Serco Abellio were first awarded the Northern Rail contract in December 2004 before it expired in March 2016. So the lifespan of the award was over 11 years. Obviously all of the trains were not repainted immediately but the purple livery was still worn by the 158s for many years and to my knowledge even now in 2020 remains on some of the units albeit debranded of Northern lettering and logos. My point is why would Bachmann want to miss out on representing these 158 units in the purple branded livery when it spanned many years? Also as I mentioned above by my logic if they didn't produce the purple livery first, then it probably wouldn't be of interest to anyone if they were to produce the white livery first and then the purple livery, because most modellers/collectors would have already bought the latest white Era 11 livery. By my thinking modellers/collectors would only then choose to go back in time and buy the purple livery afterwards if they were really flexible with the period they were modelling.

 

From a personal perspective, I don't have any DMUs but in terms of my diesel locos and their liveries I am flexible in modelling them/running them if their liveries are from the recent past, but if we are talking a difference of several/many years since a livery on a model became outdated in reality I would be less interested/inclined to buy in model form. I have also be known in the past to sell outdated liveries of my models after the locos in reality were repainted and the livery was no longer anywhere near 'current' or Era 11. 

 

Put it this way if Bachmann opt to produce the Northern white livery first and then either purple Serco Abellio second or not at all, I think they have missed a trick. Personally, I always think that working in time order when producing new liveries on models is good because then every customer can always expect to see some or most of the main liveries produced. Plus they could also be missing out on custom. As I said above I personally wouldn't buy the purple Serco Abellio livery if the Northern white was produced first, because I don't like modelling backwards in time/in reverse order. But if the purple livery was to be produced first and then the latest Northern white a couple of years after, I would most likely buy both and make use of the purple livery before the white livery arrived. 

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Posted (edited)

Ive always been of the opinion, that in modern image modelling, the ones people rush to buy are the ones they see today at the end of the platform... its closest their is to fashion in the hobby.

 

When it comes to “yesterdays” fashion, the market wanes considerably, however those who pick that era, generally feast on the discounted remains... if you look at ebay, Northern Blue & Transpenine Maroon, or Central Trains green is generally available cheaply all over, as is older Scotrail.
 

Yet if you look for current livery Saltaire Scotrail 170’s...they are going upwards of £400 right now... so a Saltaire class 158 would seem a good choice... similarly Northern 144’s arent far behind.. 

 

That said, given the volume of Network equipment change and BR era retirements in 2019, I do think that 2016-2022 will become a long term era for enthusiasts, like 1960-68, 1988-1994 were.
We have yet to see Covids impact on the franchising system, passenger & freight volumes and even viability of parts of the network, but it could have an era terminating impact if this continues over the next few years, if it creates a generational decline in travel demands... which in hobbists terms.. creates soapy eyes for that lost golden era and a model manufacturers reservoir of long term revenues to explore, we might even see more EMU/DMUs tooled in todays era.
I wonder how long before someone will create OO figures wearing masks ?

Edited by adb968008

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2 hours ago, adb968008 said:


We have yet to see Covids impact on the franchising system, passenger & freight volumes …….


I wonder how long before someone will create OO figures wearing masks ?

 

At least I don't have to add many passengers...……….

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11 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

Put it this way if Bachmann opt to produce the Northern white livery first and then either purple Serco Abellio second or not at all, I think they have missed a trick. Personally, I always think that working in time order when producing new liveries on models is good because then every customer can always expect to see some or most of the main liveries produced. Plus they could also be missing out on custom. As I said above I personally wouldn't buy the purple Serco Abellio livery if the Northern white was produced first, because I don't like modelling backwards in time/in reverse order. But if the purple livery was to be produced first and then the latest Northern white a couple of years after, I would most likely buy both and make use of the purple livery before the white livery arrived.

 

But there will also be people who wouldn't buy a purple one as they already have one of the old shape ones.

 

Whereas one would expect a white one (which could actually go out of date fairly quickly if they refranchise it) to fly off the shelves relatively speaking.

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3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

That said, given the volume of Network equipment change and BR era retirements in 2019, I do think that 2016-2022 will become a long term era for enthusiasts

 

Yep, I have a ScotRail 68/MK2 set now retired in real life and I am considering a Northern Pacer so I may end up locking into a Era 11 long term instead of my policy of "current". A lot of it depends really on as you say retirements of BR locos etc, but given there seems to be a resurgence of BR stuff (Locomotive Services for example) it may be that we can stay current with still having retro/nostalgic locos in the fleet.

 

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

When it comes to “yesterdays” fashion, the market wanes considerably, however those who pick that era, generally feast on the discounted remains... if you look at ebay, Northern Blue & Transpenine Maroon, or Central Trains green is generally available cheaply all over, as is older Scotrail.
 

Yet if you look for current livery Saltaire Scotrail 170’s...they are going upwards of £400 right now... so a Saltaire class 158 would seem a good choice... similarly Northern 144’s arent far behind.. 

 

Exactly. Part of the thing we also need to consider is what the manufacturer wants out of this. Do they want to keep drip feeding things over years and them sitting on the shelves for ages and so not doing any more until they have gone, or do they want to quickly turnaround the tooling money by hitting the industry hard and fast with what will be the most popular liveries straight away?

 

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Saltaire class 158

 

I believe it was discussed earlier in the thread that there would need to be a tooling mod for the lighting (unless they have accounted for it already)

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50 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

I believe it was discussed earlier in the thread that there would need to be a tooling mod for the lighting (unless they have accounted for it already)

I don’t think it would be that much of a mod as the EMT and GWR versions are both similar in terms of function, the main difference being the appearance.

 

It would also be good to see this on an ex-scotrail version of the Northern White livery.

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On 27/07/2020 at 11:52, TomScrut said:

 

But there will also be people who wouldn't buy a purple one as they already have one of the old shape ones.

 

Whereas one would expect a white one (which could actually go out of date fairly quickly if they refranchise it) to fly off the shelves relatively speaking.

 

That is true, but the Northern purple Abellio liveried 158s on the old tooling are very difficult to source. As they were produced many years ago with the old tooling modellers and collectors appear to have kept have hold of them, especially considering that the same livery has yet to be announced on the newly tooled 158 and didn't make the first production run. 

 

From my perspective I don't have any DMUs and thus not a purple Abellio 158 on the old tooling, but that's only because they seem to have always been difficult to source. So for those like me who never bought the initial model, on the original tooling a purple Abellio 158 would be a nice offering, especially with the extra features and 'up to 2020 standards'. I would imagine that their will also be others like me who never could source the original model and thus would like one to appear on the new tooling. Their will also be those who would prefer the updated tooling and features and would either sell the original old tooled model and buy a new one or would keep the original model to run with the model. 

 

I do understand your point though about the appeal of a Northern white 158, especially considering this livery is relatively new and thus wasn't around when the original 158s were produced on the now old tooling. I just think that missing the purple Abellio on a new tooled model even if the livery has already been produced on the old tooling, would be missing an opportunity, just because of how long the purple Abellio livery was around and it still exists now just without Northern branding. So technically this livery could be adapted by modellers to create an Era 11 model by removing the branding. So their is definitely lots of scope and potential for this livery, as it has spanned so many years. 

 

Overall, I do think that both liveries are appealing to Northern modellers and collectors, maybe their would just be a preference over which livery customers would buy depending upon the era that they model. 

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The other problem is people's wants becoming a reason to do that livery.

 

Just because you want it, doesn't mean it's a good idea. 

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17 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Just because you want it, doesn't mean it's a good idea. 

 

That depends surely. Enough people want it and that as a general rule of thumb is how things get made?!

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2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

That depends surely. Enough people want it and that as a general rule of thumb is how things get made?!

 

But as we have seen before, people wanting doesn't necessarily lead to orders. We get a distorted view her with the RMWeb membership being quite active, but many people aren't.

Roy

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On 30/07/2020 at 03:07, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

That is true, but the Northern purple Abellio liveried 158s on the old tooling are very difficult to source. As they were produced many years ago with the old tooling modellers and collectors appear to have kept have hold of them, especially considering that the same livery has yet to be announced on the newly tooled 158 and didn't make the first production run. 

 

From my perspective I don't have any DMUs and thus not a purple Abellio 158 on the old tooling, but that's only because they seem to have always been difficult to source. So for those like me who never bought the initial model, on the original tooling a purple Abellio 158 would be a nice offering, especially with the extra features and 'up to 2020 standards'. I would imagine that their will also be others like me who never could source the original model and thus would like one to appear on the new tooling. Their will also be those who would prefer the updated tooling and features and would either sell the original old tooled model and buy a new one or would keep the original model to run with the model. 

 

I do understand your point though about the appeal of a Northern white 158, especially considering this livery is relatively new and thus wasn't around when the original 158s were produced on the now old tooling. I just think that missing the purple Abellio on a new tooled model even if the livery has already been produced on the old tooling, would be missing an opportunity, just because of how long the purple Abellio livery was around and it still exists now just without Northern branding. So technically this livery could be adapted by modellers to create an Era 11 model by removing the branding. So their is definitely lots of scope and potential for this livery, as it has spanned so many years. 

 

Overall, I do think that both liveries are appealing to Northern modellers and collectors, maybe their would just be a preference over which livery customers would buy depending upon the era that they model. 

Have you seen these units from Rainbow Railways:

https://www.rainbowrailways.co.uk/realtrack-class-156491-northern-rail-livery-gauge-p-1934.html

Northern 156.jpg

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2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

But as we have seen before, people wanting doesn't necessarily lead to orders. We get a distorted view her with the RMWeb membership being quite active, but many people aren't.

Roy

 

Yeah I was getting at demand in general, which is typically linked to "wants" but as you say this is not a whole market demographic.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, charliepetty said:

 

If you had made them in that livery from the start I'd probably have one, i.e. at £230 or whatever the RRP was. It's very good value for a respray but it just makes it too close to something like a Hornby 800 cost wise which gives better bang for buck whilst still being a good model. I might bite one day though.

Edited by TomScrut
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9 hours ago, charliepetty said:

 

Hi Charlie, 

 

Hope you are well? 

 

Thank you for letting me know. Yes I have seen them previously, along with other Class 156 resprays on offer by Rainbow Railways. The new Northern white livery is tempting, but I may wait and see what you announce in further batches of the 156s. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

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5 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Hi Charlie, 

 

Hope you are well? 

 

Thank you for letting me know. Yes I have seen them previously, along with other Class 156 resprays on offer by Rainbow Railways. The new Northern white livery is tempting, but I may wait and see what you announce in further batches of the 156s. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

Its not that one currently, Hornby have blocked us on this sadly.   Charlie

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3 minutes ago, charliepetty said:

Its not that one currently, Hornby have blocked us on this sadly.   Charlie

 

That's a shame. So won't we ever see a Northern white 156 from you or will it just not be for the foreseeable future? 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

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7 minutes ago, charliepetty said:

Its not that one currently, Hornby have blocked us on this sadly.   Charlie


I expect that Hornby and Northern have come to a marketing agreement and I expect that Hornby will push out more ex Lima 156’s in the new livery.

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14 hours ago, jools1959 said:


I expect that Hornby and Northern have come to a marketing agreement and I expect that Hornby will push out more ex Lima 156’s in the new livery.

Thats not too certain!!  Protecting their product range is more the answer

IE:

DJM Class 71  -  Hornby 71

Rails Terrier   -  Hornby Terrier

Hattons 66     -  Hornby (Lima) 66

Accurascale 92  -  Hornby 92

DJM APT        -   Hornby APT

Calvalex 91   -   Hornby 91

Realtrack 156  -  Hornby (Lima) 156

and probably more in the future.  Shame really as Lima Products are not really 'Value for money' any more.

 

Charlie

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23 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

If you had made them in that livery from the start I'd probably have one, i.e. at £230 or whatever the RRP was. It's very good value for a respray but it just makes it too close to something like a Hornby 800 cost wise which gives better bang for buck whilst still being a good model. I might bite one day though.


I disagree, I have 1x 800 and 3x Realtrack 156’s.

There’s a clue there as to which I think is better.

 

I have two Saltaire 156’s and a Northern respray, the respray quality is exceptional, you really can’t tell it is a respray, Ive been umming about a Strathclyde respray, but I’m holding the line for now. 
I am hoping for Northern and Saltaire 158’s to go with them, though I’m not holding much expectations for more 158’s this year, or next.

 

The 800, to me just feels Ratners, not that much detailing to it, not impressed with the coupling, think it’s more suited for a trainset, though it is 5 coaches rather than 2.

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42 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

though it is 5 coaches rather than 2.

 

My point exactly on the "bang for buck". If it was as detailed as the 156 it would be Bachmann Pullman money and I certainly wouldn't have two on order.

 

I would not say the 800 is "trainset" (the category I'd put the 395 in) but I'd agree probably not as good as the 156 but at £285 for a 2 car (respray) vs £355 for a 5 car it wants to be! To me it's a good mix of cost vs detail.

 

As an alternative, Accurascale mk5s and a Dapol 68 will be about £360 for 6 cars. We haven't seen how good the mk5s are but I think they'd be in line with everything else they make.

 

It's the extra for the respray that is just making it more than I want to spend on a 156 at the moment (if there wasn't loads of stuff coming out I am interested in I'd probably have one), and as I said before that's not digging at the cost of the respray as for the job they look to do it's good value, it's just circumstantial that it lifts the cost beyond what I feel I want to spend on a 2 car DMU. I expect I'll be ordering a Pacer if it's around the £200-230 mark.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

My point exactly on the "bang for buck". If it was as detailed as the 156 it would be Bachmann Pullman money and I certainly wouldn't have two on order.


I would not say the 800 is "trainset" (the category I'd put the 395 in)

Rather than bang for buck i’d put it as

You could buy 5 Big Macs or a T-Bone steak.

 

I’d put it in the same category as the 395 too.

Edited by adb968008
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I’d put it in the same category as the 395 too.

 

So you're saying it should only be about £200?

Edited by TomScrut

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

So you're saying it should only be about £200?

I’m saying I was disappointed with it, I didn't feel the same quality holding it, as I do say against Bulleid Suburbans or even the mk2e’s.
 

I still bought it, I have a 395 too (only paid £50 for it), so what its worth and what I pay are different things, its the only game in town for a Japanese high speed, unless you want a Kato Hayabusa... thats £600 if I want a 6 car set and i’m umming and arring about it in my ebay watch list for some time...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KATO-HO-Scale-Gauge-E5-Series-Shinkansen-Hayabusa-Basic-4-Car-Set-3-516-JP-F-S/383309792004?hash=item593f0b4304:g:XSgAAOSwRg9d7nam


 

BE3DB9E0-2B50-4BEF-AFCB-57CF820F0B6B.jpeg.b8b8a62785b9246ef57fe22adffde60e.jpeg

i’m not going to get one of these for £200 I don't think, so if I want it, I need to pony up, but doesnt mean i’ll be happy with the product.

 

Edited by adb968008
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