Bachmann Press Day - July 2017

[Ozexpatriate]

Ignoring the yellow lining , Hornby managed this in 2011. This what Teak should like on a r.t.r Coach.

 

Sadly in 2017 it has ended up like this, even better MFI Ikea etc lookalike they have done the same to Gresley and Thompson Suburban Coaches.

 

Reasons for this ?

 

One obvious one cheaper to produce 2017 has at a guess far less layers of printing. Hornby stated that the cost of the 2011 versions was due to the large number of printing per side.

Or current China factories have no idea what wood grain looks like. Hornby are then stuck with them once received in UK.

I'm pretty sure they changed factories, and critically the specific tampo printers used, between those two models. The 'recipe' for how this was applied seemed to be lost between the two. Your suggestion that fewer passes through the printer may also be true and certainly would help manage costs but I suspect the change in factory was the major factor and the new factory was starting from scratch. (Of course they also were building to a price.)

 

I remember some photographs of the original Sanda Kan tampo printing set-up. (I think it was some Hornby PR when they first released the 'nice' LNER teak finish that you have at 2011) This rendition was at least their third attempt after the horrible early 1970s scuffed tan plastic which was then 'improved' with lining out in the late 1970s and is (I think) still available in the Railroad line. Perhaps it was in an old Hornby Collector where I saw the factory set up? The printer set up was very nice. It was not at like the video I saw (either from Kernow or Rapido, I'm not sure which) where a person was handling each workpiece and there was grot everywhere.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[sdeardenmcp]

I better start saving up, so much stuff in the pipeline that I desire from Bachmann. The quality gets better and better

[JSpencer]

On the

 

The day started with an overview and a reminder that there is far more to Bachmann Europe than just the Branchline and Farish ranges:

EFE / Die-cast vehicles (buses etc.)

William Britain (Military figures)

First Gear (Die-cast vehicles)

Pocketbond (Construction kits etc.)

PROSES / model railway aids

 

There was a look back to where the hobby was 50 years ago, a larger market in terms of volume of modellers to a time when the largest retailer of model railways was F.W.Woolworth. Today there are fewer modellers but with more choice which does mean more pressure for all involved. The pie charts shown give an indication of the number of locomotive products being produced by each of the manufacturers.

 

Pies.jpg

 

Bachmann are keen to show the differences in obligation levels between being a large manufacturer and an emerging manufacturer:

Bachmann is a significant employer in UK model railway sector along with Hornby and PECO

Bachmann contribute to local economy

Bachmann advertise in trade press extensively

Bachmann sponsor and support major exhibitions

Bachmann only supports ‘proper’ retailers

Bachmann has diversified its hobby portfolio outside traditional model railway sector

 

The question of whether the marketplace is a level playing field was raised comparing a ‘small’ manufacturer where there is a low-cost infrastructure, often no trade support with direct selling (no trade margins) and where lower prices are possible to a larger manufacturer, such as Bachmann, where there is a high-cost infrastructure, everything in-house, an experienced sales team, full trade support, full after sales support (service department) and full Media Support (including review samples, media briefings and press information issued at regular intervals).

 

Inevitably those elements come with costs but they are elements which are essential to maintain a sustainable business with growth. If a smaller manufacturer is to increase in size then those costs will too come to be part of their future pricing.

 

There is confidence within Bachmann at present as they are experiencing an 8% YTD growth in sales in their railway products; the backlog of progress on announcements is being reduced and the reliability of products continues to increase further. The DCC sound Castle, in particular, has been a big success in sales and the Stanier Mogul and Webb coal tank have proved very popular.

 

Bachmann pledged their future direction:

Our aim – to be the best

Our goal – to catch up with promised releases

Our vision – to build a sustainable business in what are the most challenging times since our formation

Our ambition – to continue to serve the hobby and put something back so that future generations can enjoy it too!

 

green box.

A nice report, but the pie chart takes a little to fathom out.

 

Hornby and Bachmann are certainly the two big players here with respective big organisations, and somewhat greater overheads, between though they are building the market. This part is clear and I will not dispute that.

 

Dapol and Heljan are clearly the next two biggest for me. Dapol employs quite a few people in the UK, I have no idea if they sponsor shows but think they may have done for N gauge. Heljan is largely offshore. Both companies products go through model shops with little direct sales. I see both being set up a similar way as Bachmann only on a smaller scale. All three makes have done models exclusive for certain outlets or magazines.

 

Oxfordrail is a newcomer to model railways but had previously established itself and supply chain with Diecast. Again a smaller version of Bachmanns set up with jobs in the UK. Too small for now to sponsor shows but I have no doubt that they have the capacity to reach number 3 spot within 10 years.

 

Rapido are a new comer, but so far it has been 2 (nearly 3) models exclusive to the NRM (Bachmann also provided some exclusive locos), or supplying realtrack whom sold through the model trade or the crowd funding revolution items. Rapido are working with partners so costs are somewhat different. I am surprised at the big chunk of pie Rapido have considering Reatrack and Revolution also appear in the pie with much smaller parts even though combined they should in theory out perform Rapido if their figures are broken out from Rapidos total.

 

Hattons and Kernow, both retailers which until now used a known manufacturer party (like Bchmann, Dapol, DJM, Heljan) to produce models on their behalf. Both retailers do an awful lot of promotion and maybe some sponsorship.

 

Realtrack and Revolution, see Rapido above. Revolution has used crowd sourcing and does not yet have Bachmanns established experience and overheads. Realtrack is more a distributer and brand for Rapido selling through model shops, these latter models are not cheap even compared to Bachmann.

 

We are left with DJM, the youngest establishment yet to have - or need - a dedicated UK sales and support team and lacks those overheads but equally lacks the same scale of promotion.

 

From this long list, very few do not have Bachmanns overheads, some have other overheads, with only a couple really acting low cost and not producing much.

However agree there are an awful lot of players out there, combined with rising costs, Brexit, Lower disposable incomes, making the current situation difficult or testing.

 

One thing is clear, exclusives which avoid retailers are ultimately damaging to the classic retail trade, this in turn can eventually mean less and less new blood. However I personally won,t pay up front that many models, currently I am at 3 and will not extend it further. The crowd sourcing market is limited indeed.

Edited July 9, 2017 by JSpencer

[charliepetty]

A nice report, but the pie chart takes a little to fathom out.

 

Hornby and Bachmann are certainly the two big players here with respective big organisations, and somewhat greater overheads, between though they are building the market. This part is clear and I will not dispute that.

 

Dapol and Heljan are clearly the next two biggest for me. Dapol employs quite a few people in the UK, I have no idea if they sponsor shows but think they may have done for N gauge. Heljan is largely offshore. Both companies products go through model shops with little direct sales. I see both being set up a similar way as Bachmann only on a smaller scale. All three makes have done models exclusive for certain outlets or magazines.

 

Oxfordrail is a newcomer to model railways but had previously established itself and supply chain with Diecast. Again a smaller version of Bachmanns set up with jobs in the UK. Too small for now to sponsor shows but I have no doubt that they have the capacity to reach number 3 spot within 10 years.

 

Rapido are a new comer, but so far it has been 2 (nearly 3) models exclusive to the NRM (Bachmann also provided some exclusive locos), or supplying realtrack whom sold through the model trade or the crowd funding revolution items. Rapido are working with partners so costs are somewhat different. I am surprised at the big chunk of pie Rapido have considering Reatrack and Revolution also appear in the pie with much smaller parts even though combined they should in theory out perform Rapido if their figures are broken out from Rapidos total.

 

Hattons and Kernow, both retailers which until now used a known manufacturer party (like Bchmann, Dapol, DJM, Heljan) to produce models on their behalf. Both retailers do an awful lot of promotion and maybe some sponsorship.

 

Realtrack and Revolution, see Rapido above. Revolution has used crowd sourcing and does not yet have Bachmanns established experience and overheads. Realtrack is more a distributer and brand for Rapido selling through model shops, these latter models are not cheap even compared to Bachmann.

 

We are left with DJM, the youngest establishment yet to have - or need - a dedicated UK sales and support team and lacks those overheads but equally lacks the same scale of promotion.

 

From this long list, very few do not have Bachmanns overheads, some have other overheads, with only a couple really acting low cost and not producing much.

However agree there are an awful lot of players out there, combined with rising costs, Brexit, Lower disposable incomes, making the current situation difficult or testing.

 

One thing is clear, exclusives which avoid retailers are ultimately damaging to the classic retail trade, this in turn can eventually mean less and less new blood. However I personally won,t pay up front that many models, currently I am at 3 and will not extend it further. The crowd sourcing market is limited indeed.

Realtrack is more a distributer and brand for Rapido selling through model shops, these latter models are not cheap even compared to Bachmann.

 

Realtrack/C=Rail have commissioned Rapido and another two Chinese manufactures to produce exclusively 156's, 144's, 143's FLA Wagons and a vast range of 20Ft, 40Ft and two different 20Ft Tank Containers, currently an N Gauge Pocket wagon is in the early stages of production (Not with Rapido) along with N Gauge Containers, this is the first of a range of N Gauge items, ALL risks and funding is Realtracks/C=Rail.

 

Realtrack/C=Rail are a small player in this RTR market place, but hopefully can bring some innovation into the market place. We cannot compete with the large quantities that the big two produce, so we always will be more expensive.  Arran & Charlie

 

[Roy Langridge]

Realtrack is more a distributer and brand for Rapido selling through model shops, these latter models are not cheap even compared to Bachmann.

 

Realtrack/C=Rail have commissioned Rapido and another two Chinese manufactures to produce exclusively 156's, 144's, 143's FLA Wagons and a vast range of 20Ft, 40Ft and two different 20Ft Tank Containers, currently an N Gauge Pocket wagon is in the early stages of production (Not with Rapido) along with N Gauge Containers, this is the first of a range of N Gauge items, ALL risks and funding is Realtracks/C=Rail.

 

Realtrack/C=Rail are a small player in this RTR market place, but hopefully can bring some innovation into the market place. We cannot compete with the large quantities that the big two produce, so we always will be more expensive. Arran & Charlie

 

I, along with many others, will happily pay a premium for a quality product. Low volume / high spec is perfect in my book. Just keep going the way you are gents.

 

Roy

[JaymzHatstand]

I notice with interest the four iterations on the lovely J72 CAD, but note that when initially announced (as a chassis update) that only three liveries were offered. I wonder if an extra one has been added, and yet to be announced, or if the work has been done to fit in as many variations as possible with future releases in mind.

 

I also wonder how much extra tool making would have to be done to make a J71 as well! I know the wheels are different sizes and with a slight change in wheelbase, which would mean a new chassis block, but bodywise, they were very similar. Fingers crossed for a bit of joined up thinking and a release of 8286 in pre-war LNER livery, and definitely one in NER colours!

 

Cheers

 

J

[terry.ecmr]

Firstly, thanks to Andy for an excellent report.

Although most of the items in question are not of interest to me in a modelling capacity I feel I need to remind some people how lucky we are compared to 10 or 15 years ago. Excellent variety and quality of models.

Yet some people are still not happy. Faux wood not looking like real wood?????

Come on guys. Let's take a moment to consider how lucky we are.

Well done Bachmann and the other manufacturers big and small.

[JSpencer]

 

Realtrack/C=Rail have commissioned Rapido and another two Chinese manufactures to produce exclusively 156's, 144's, 143's FLA Wagons and a vast range of 20Ft, 40Ft and two different 20Ft Tank Containers, currently an N Gauge Pocket wagon is in the early stages of production (Not with Rapido) along with N Gauge Containers, this is the first of a range of N Gauge items, ALL risks and funding is Realtracks/C=Rail.

 

Realtrack/C=Rail are a small player in this RTR market place, but hopefully can bring some innovation into the market place. We cannot compete with the large quantities that the big two produce, so we always will be more expensive.  Arran & Charlie

 

 

Thanks for the correction, I was not aware of using other factories than Rapido.

 

My main point was though, that Realtrack sell through classic model shops, so despite being a small (new?) niche player, there is little/no direct sales and model shops are - I would safely bet - getting full support from Realtrack. I therefore do not think Realtrack are being less supportive (with respect to size) than Bachmann. Likewise, I do not feel the products undercut Bachmann prices and are within the same price/quality norms I would expect.

Overall while there are certainly small players with direct sales and crowdfunding out there, these are very few and we should not think that all/most small players are avoiding Bachmann's overheads using just direct sales and no shop/show support model - when the evidence shows this is not really the entire reality. 

 

That said, I am not sure if Bachmann had tarred all small players with the same brush, using this as a silent plea or explanation to explain part of the price story (i;e please buy Bachmann as we support model shops, shows and a UK workforce), or merely pointing out how complex and difficult the market place is becoming. As my ex boss at the Signalbox used to say "we are the little fish nibbling on the fins of the big fish" (though when he said that, we were a big fish by then!).

[Andy Y]

A nice report, but the pie chart takes a little to fathom out.

 

 

The main point of those charts to show that the cake or pie is smaller overall than it was 50 years ago and there are many more slices and many are quite small slices.

 

Try not to over analyse it.

[coachmann]

The main point of those charts to show that the cake or pie is smaller overall than it was 50 years ago there are many more slices and many are quite small slices.

 

Try not to over analyse it.

A spot of under-analysis then....... 

 

50 years ago was 1967 and ready-to-run toys were barely of use to railway modellers save for Triang 0-6-0 and 4-4-0 chassis which we bushed and re-wheeled with Romfords and used the XO4 motors in loco kits. A bigger pie maybe but it was 90-odd percent toy market. At that time I was just getting into building Gem whitemetal loco kits to boost my income....The parts alone were very expensive compared with a RTR toy. Fast-forward to today and the pie is smaller yet it is the backbone of railway modelling AND the toy train market. Bachmann and other proprietary companies have not only enabled everyone (skilled or not) to own superb model locos and rolling stock, but RTR has brought down the cost of the railway modeling hobby by a considerable margin.

Edited July 10, 2017 by coachmann

[Legend]

Completely agree against the cost of Kits , painting etc , very few of which could achieve your standards. It's a good point that the costs too many who would have previously ran mainly kits will have indeed come down, although I do wonder if the same satisfaction is achieved of owning something rather than constructing it .

 

However for many more who relied upon RTR the costs are going up . Whether that's costs from China, Brexit or even technical inflation where models now must have lights, orange door unlocking lights, servos on pantographs the costs of modelling has spiralled and it is now a significant barrier to entry to the hobby.

[wombatofludham]

Alternatively, those of us in the fortunate position to be able to afford all the new models with added features will probably be replacing older models which, for the most part, are still reasonable (Realtrack 156 versus the Limby 156 - apart from the underframe, still not a bad model, new Bachy 158 versus their older model, etc), which will in turn then be offloaded onto ThiefBay, jumble sales, charity shops, swapmeets, trade-ins, which will allow those on tighter budgets, or newbies to buy models cheaply for detailing or to run as is.

 

When I was exhibiting "Kings Oak", aimed at showing what newbie modellers could achieve in a small space with off the peg items, I often chatted with people about how to get started or return to the hobby.  Many raised the issue of cost and were mystified by DCC, but I always said that getting started need not be expensive and a lot of good, reasonable cost materials could be sourced via on-line auctions and second-hand dealers.  I would point out the items I had sourced from the 'Bay and other sources and they were pleasantly surprised by the costs.  Several went away clearly having discovered an alternative way of breaking into the hobby.

 

Perhaps we need to stop wringing our hands at the model price inflation and start being a bit more creative and evangelistic with newbies about how you can join the hobby, whilst perhaps not quite a shoestring, certainly not on a bankruptcy threatening trajectory?

[Phil Parker]

A spot of under-analysis then....... 

 

50 years ago was 1967 and ready-to-run toys were barely of use to railway modellers save for Triang 0-6-0 and 4-4-0 chassis which we bushed and re-wheeled with Romfords and used the XO4 motors in loco kits. A bigger pie maybe but it was 90-odd percent toy market. At that time I was just getting into building Gem whitemetal loco kits to boost my income....The parts alone were very expensive compared with a RTR toy. Fast-forward to today and the pie is smaller yet it is the backbone of railway modelling AND the toy train market. Bachmann and other proprietary companies have not only enabled everyone (skilled or not) to own superb model locos and rolling stock, but RTR has brought down the cost of the railway modeling hobby by a considerable margin.

 

It depends on how you define "Railway modellers". There were plenty of layouts both in magazines and at shows which made extensive use of RTR, even though it wasn't as good as we now enjoy. Yes, there were plenty of people bashing some of the useless lumps of whitemetal sold as kits into shape, but they certainly weren't everyone. 

 

The point of the charts is that they represent the whole market - toys and high-end models - both then and now. Even if the pie were the same size, there are a lot more RTR players out there. A lot more models released too, barely a month goes by without some new item to fill magazine review pages. Back then, the number of new locos per year could easily be counted on the fingers of one hand. 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Completely agree against the cost of Kits , painting etc , very few of which could achieve your standards. It's a good point that the costs too many who would have previously ran mainly kits will have indeed come down, although I do wonder if the same satisfaction is achieved of owning something rather than constructing it .

 

However for many more who relied upon RTR the costs are going up . Whether that's costs from China, Brexit or even technical inflation where models now must have lights, orange door unlocking lights, servos on pantographs the costs of modelling has spiralled and it is now a significant barrier to entry to the hobby.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Luckily I was entering the hobby with modern image locos and rolling stock a few years ago. By this point I have had the opportunity to acquire several Bachmann diesel locos for just £70 or £80 brand new. This is now a distant memory and I feel sorry for those just starting out now trying to buy locos and stock. Personally if that was me now trying to afford some of these locos and wagons I would barely be able to buy anything. Standard diesel locos are now nearly £130. I agree that this is a massive barrier for younger people to enter the hobby because they most likely have not got the money to spend £130 on one standard loco.

 

Really it's a sad sign of the times because if things keep going the way they are with regards to increased prices, which I know has to happen in order for manufacturers to make profit, it will most likely mean that younger people have to either stop purchasing model railway goods or can't even consider entering the hobby in the first place.

 

I'm not complaining about the increase in prices because I know why the prices have increased. I simply feel sorry for and sympathise with people my age and younger about the costs of this hobby.

Edited July 10, 2017 by DRS Crewe On A Mission

[coachmann]

However for many more who relied upon RTR the costs are going up . Whether that's costs from China, Brexit or even technical inflation where models now must have lights, orange door unlocking lights, servos on pantographs the costs of modelling has spiralled and it is now a significant barrier to entry to the hobby.

It is said wages have fallen behind over the past few years, a not-unexpected development, so I don't know what the answer is. But on the flip side of the coin, I have read on RMweb of people gaily buying every variant of something. Costs are going up, but who would settle for putting the clock back. Hornby tried it with 'design clever' and incurred the wrath of the Titans. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by coachmann

[JSpencer]

A good few years ago, I remember articles for people doing trains on a shoe string. Maybe there are similar ones still published today only I was more aware back then because I was looking for them.

I remember one micro shunting OO layout in a couple of lever arch file boxes!

With DCC we can increase the fun of those, but of course DCC may not be considered shoe string especially when we get to sound etc...

 

However most train sets still stick with the classic oval (sometimes with siding) and remain pretty classic in the sense being a big named loco (The Tornado express!) or a cheap shunter with a few cheap wagons. These are therefore still quite toy like (Bachmann to their credit use obviously more serious models).

 

But I do wonder if instead of an oval for the shunting type sets, we could do the train set  with a more shunting plank type set of track?

Or maybe split it into 2 parts. A suitable train pack (shunting loco with appropriate stock) and a track set, with track, track plan and cheap controller etc  to allow someone to build a small shunting puzzle.

I remember the Trix Gazette used to do a shunting puzzle every issue, so a booklet of shunting quizzes with a some more in each club magazine could let people join in on a low budget and enjoy some of the modelling fun right away.

[Andy Y]

but who would settle for putting the cock back. 

 

If you could put it back rather than waving it about the forum it would be much appreciated.

[Phil Parker]

 

Luckily I was entering the hobby with modern image locos and rolling stock a few years ago. By this point I have had the opportunity to acquire several Bachmann diesel locos for just £70 or £80 brand new. This is now a distant memory and I feel sorry for those just starting out now trying to buy locos and stock.

 

A few years before, you'd have bought Lima diesels for £30 each. Every exhibition hosted at least one huge MPD layout full of them. The problem is people demanded models that didn't need handrails replacing and loads of etched bits fitting. They also want working lights, DCC sockets etc. That customer demand pushes up the prices.

 

Fortunately, those Lima diesels are still available second hand so as someone else mentioned, there are cheaper ways into the hobby. The other point is that you don't need to buy everything. Most private layouts, MPDs apart, are unlikely to need dozens of locos.

[JSpencer]

Couldn't agree more.

 

Luckily I was entering the hobby with modern image locos and rolling stock a few years ago. By this point I have had the opportunity to acquire several Bachmann diesel locos for just £70 or £80 brand new. This is now a distant memory and I feel sorry for those just starting out now trying to buy locos and stock. Personally if that was me now trying to afford some of these locos and wagons I would barely be able to buy anything. Standard diesel locos are now nearly £130. I agree that this is a massive barrier for younger people to enter the hobby because they most likely have not got the money to spend £130 on one standard loco.

 

Really it's a sad sign of the times because if things keep going the way they are with regards to increased prices, which I know has to happen in order for manufacturers to make profit, it will most likely mean that younger people have to either stop purchasing model railway goods or can't even consider entering the hobby in the first place.

 

I'm not complaining about the increase in prices because I know why the prices have increased. I simply feel sorry for and sympathise with people my age and younger about the costs of this hobby.

 

When I returned 10 years ago (after a 8 year away cycle - or rather very little contact), I found the £70, £80 and £90 to be expensive and was surprised at how fragile the models had become.

 

I resorted to flea-bay to buy modern and ex Mainline/airfix to fill gaps in the loco ranks (though I still had many older models from my own collection dating from the 90s or before).

The Hornby M7, a £120 model even then was well outside my league. I got one cheap in the end on Ebay. (Today I have 2).

 

I know one member on here - who returned not long ago - generally shuns modern RTR and details up Lima to modern RTR standards. I suspect he would have returned if he did not have the skills to do it.

 

Today's prices do make me double think the strategy but clearly we do need a high-low mix so people joining/returning don't suddenly decide to build a garden pond instead! This High low mix exists though maybe not from Bachmann per-se.

 

The pie is smaller but there are many more pies out there now.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I was shocked at how expensive the hobby had got when I returned to it two years ago, I think my last brand new train before then was Hornby's 'Super Detail' Mallard whenever that was released, probably the one they're using as the railroad one now. Of course back then I'd collect and run anything.

 

Ebay has certainly helped a lot. And I seem to have picked just the right time to model the Southern Railway circa 1943. And selling of most of my 'for the sake of it' childhood purchases and presents have helped fund my Southern Railway as it is now.

 

I got over the pricing now anyway seeing how far models have come! I get it. And all the time I'm lodging with my parents paying £100 a month rent the hobby is quite affordable, but once me and my partner move out and get our own place and have a mortgage to pay I'm not sure how affordable it is going to be... Even on a double income with no kids,  so I'm stocking up now while I can Even if it means lots of "Not more trains!? You're supposed to be moving out!" from the parents  

[Andy Y]

Some better studio snaps showing the whole coaches of the Thompson 'Teak' range from Bachmann.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

I was shocked at how expensive the hobby had got when I returned to it two years ago, I think my last brand new train before then was Hornby's 'Super Detail' Mallard whenever that was released, probably the one they're using as the railroad one now. Of course back then I'd collect and run anything.

 

Ebay has certainly helped a lot. And I seem to have picked just the right time to model the Southern Railway circa 1943. And selling of most of my 'for the sake of it' childhood purchases and presents have helped fund my Southern Railway as it is now.

 

I got over the pricing now anyway seeing how far models have come! I get it. And all the time I'm lodging with my parents paying £100 a month rent the hobby is quite affordable, but once me and my partner move out and get our own place and have a mortgage to pay I'm not sure how affordable it is going to be... Even on a double income with no kids,  so I'm stocking up now while I can Even if it means lots of "Not more trains!? You're supposed to be moving out!" from the parents

 

As a relatively recent returnee, I know what you mean, but, you get what you pay for!  A period of mental adjustment was required.

 

You could do what I did; ever since I turned to pre-Grouping, I found I saved a fortune in RTR purchases!

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

A few years before, you'd have bought Lima diesels for £30 each. Every exhibition hosted at least one huge MPD layout full of them. The problem is people demanded models that didn't need handrails replacing and loads of etched bits fitting. They also want working lights, DCC sockets etc. That customer demand pushes up the prices.

 

Fortunately, those Lima diesels are still available second hand so as someone else mentioned, there are cheaper ways into the hobby. The other point is that you don't need to buy everything. Most private layouts, MPDs apart, are unlikely to need dozens of locos.

 

Very true.

 

Several years ago I bought a DRS 37611 which was a Lima model. It looked quite good for the time but when I got it home it made such a racket. This was back still when I had an analogue controller and layout so it suited at the time as these locos can't be fitted with DCC Decoders. A few days later though I decided to return it to the shop due to the loud noise that it was making. It just wasn't a good runner at all. That was the turning point for me. I had already bought several Bachmann locos and wanted to buy a Lima loco to see what it was like. I then decided to continue buying Bachmann locos due to their high level of detailing and smooth running. Of course Bachmann locos have always cost more money but that's the price I am willing to pay, even though they are significantly higher.

 

About the number of locos my point is that even if you was just to buy one of each loco in each livery it's still very costly.

 

Also a standard Hornby diesel loco tends to be more than a Bachmann diesel loco with Class 60s and 67s now £140/£150.

 

Personally I want to run multiple locos at once, I want them to have working lights (directional and cab) and to have the ability to fit DCC Decoders to allow more than once loco to run on the layout at once. So yes DCC is for me. This does mean buying Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol locos etc which have DCC sockets and that are more expensive. I suppose this is the price that you have to pay to run multiple locos at once or have more than one loco on the layout.

 

Also very true. At least Lima diesels are still available to buy from some model shops and off of Ebay. That's good for people entering the hobby but for me creating a modern image layout which includes locos with new liveries it just has to be DCC.

 

When I returned 10 years ago (after a 8 year away cycle - or rather very little contact), I found the £70, £80 and £90 to be expensive and was surprised at how fragile the models had become.

 

I resorted to flea-bay to buy modern and ex Mainline/airfix to fill gaps in the loco ranks (though I still had many older models from my own collection dating from the 90s or before).

The Hornby M7, a £120 model even then was well outside my league. I got one cheap in the end on Ebay. (Today I have 2).

 

I know one member on here - who returned not long ago - generally shuns modern RTR and details up Lima to modern RTR standards. I suspect he would have returned if he did not have the skills to do it.

 

Today's prices do make me double think the strategy but clearly we do need a high-low mix so people joining/returning don't suddenly decide to build a garden pond instead! This High low mix exists though maybe not from Bachmann per-se.

 

The pie is smaller but there are many more pies out there now.

 

Also very true.

 

The mix in models available is very good because it meets everyone's needs, whether that's just entering the hobby, continuing in the hobby or returning to the hobby. It's good that their is something for everyone. The sad thing about the Lima locos is that because of when they were produced before DCC, they don't have DCC sockets which means that they can't be fitted with DCC Decoders, unless in some cases some people have hard wired them, but for most like me this isn't practical and wouldn't know where to start.

 

DCC is very good and it's something that I am glad that I invested in. The cost of DCC Controllers, DCC Decoders and locos with DCC sockets in is well worth the money to create the layout with the locos on it that I want. But it is costly.

 

I suppose it's all about supply and demand at the time. What is it that people want? What features do people want? And when do people want it? That influences the prices, affordability and target market.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

I was shocked at how expensive the hobby had got when I returned to it two years ago, I think my last brand new train before then was Hornby's 'Super Detail' Mallard whenever that was released, probably the one they're using as the railroad one now. Of course back then I'd collect and run anything.

 

Ebay has certainly helped a lot. And I seem to have picked just the right time to model the Southern Railway circa 1943. And selling of most of my 'for the sake of it' childhood purchases and presents have helped fund my Southern Railway as it is now.

 

I got over the pricing now anyway seeing how far models have come! I get it. And all the time I'm lodging with my parents paying £100 a month rent the hobby is quite affordable, but once me and my partner move out and get our own place and have a mortgage to pay I'm not sure how affordable it is going to be... Even on a double income with no kids,  so I'm stocking up now while I can Even if it means lots of "Not more trains!? You're supposed to be moving out!" from the parents

 

I have been in the hobby a good decade now and I have seen the most noticeable price increases.

 

Back in 2010 a brand new tooled Freightliner Class 70 was £79.50. The latest batch due to arrive in August/September with the new air intakes fitted to the sides are £145 each. That just shows how much things can change in seven years.

 

I suppose if you want to buy highly detailed, ready to run models with working directional and cab lighting that can have standard DCC Decoders and Sound Decoders fitted then you have to overcome the increase in prices. If you want the more basic models without any of the above then you can continue to buy Lima models for very cheap, reasonable prices.

 

It just shows the massive difference in both directions that we now have.

 

One end of the scale < Lima

 

The other end of the scale > Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol etc.

[cal.n]

I, like many, find £60+ per coach a lot. But in a good way, this has encouraged me to pick up a knife, brush and soldering iron and have a go with Airfix, Lima and Railroad offerings. Opening a coach up and putting passengers in was almost a part of buying it.

 

I wonder the market that these models are aimed at, most who are prepared to put that kind of money into their hobby will probably possess the skills to add details and improvements that the price tag adds. Of course there are exceptions to this and this only applies to models that follow a previous offering (mk2s, cl90)