Electric Railway Museum, Coventry, to close.

[jjb1970]

I think that if a museum offers well presented exhibits which tell a story and are accessible to a wide audience then people will come. There is a small number of people who will primarily visit a museum for the purposes of research and/or learning about the prototypes on show but I think most visitors probably want an enjoyable day out and to be entertained. I find that given the right presentation and hooks most people can be enticed to take an interest in most things. I know I've already referenced the V&A, I have zero interest in most of the stuff on display in the V&A yet it is a wonderful museum and I love visiting it.

[Wolf27]

How many items are involved? Or might be in the future?

 

Just trying to get a fix on the sort of space that would be needed and wondering if it could be combined with the proposed model railway project at Ashford.

41 rail based vehicles of varying origins and descriptions.

 

Shane

[298]

Finally, the rolling stock. It is a very open question as to how much rolling stock is actually needed to "inform and educate", and it sure doesn't have the power to "entertain" in the way that steam does. The VER, the already preserved LOR car, and the CSLR loco and car between them give a very good view of the early years; the LSWR unit in the NRM collection, 'Sarah Siddons' and the 38TS cover the period up to WW2. I'm less sure about what in the way of 25kV locos is preserved, but one from AL1-AL6 would be adequate.

 

 

Kevin (who worked for forty years in electric traction, and thinks the whole topic is utterly fascinating, but understands why few others do!)

There is just one example of the early AL1 to AL5 left, but as the saying goes, "Once they're gone, they're gone". Likewise the ERM has the last driving coach from a class 310/312 unit, they were quite distinctive but how far does a class have to go before it is extinct? Some might say it has already happened as a complete unit can't be formed, so why not just the driving coach? Or if the front end is the important bit the lop the cab off it and just keep that part?

 

I'll be sad to see the ERM go as it took a group of like-minded individuals to do what the greater preservation world with their obligatory Mk1 coach sets and demonstration goods trains didn't even seem to wish to attain (apart from a few more forward thinking lines).

 

They did seem to be getting there more recently and the Central line (?) Underground signalling display seemed to be a good advert for early computing (the eight pairs of red and yellow logic gates occupying a couple of feet of average bookshelf but producing just one Byte of data).

[Kelly]

There is just one example of the early AL1 to AL5 left, but as the saying goes, "Once they're gone, they're gone". Likewise the ERM has the last driving coach from a class 310/312 unit, they were quite distinctive but how far does a class have to go before it is extinct? Some might say it has already happened as a complete unit can't be formed, so why not just the driving coach? Or if the front end is the important bit the lop the cab off it and just keep that part?

 

I'll be sad to see the ERM go as it took a group of like-minded individuals to do what the greater preservation world with their obligatory Mk1 coach sets and demonstration goods trains didn't even seem to wish to attain (apart from a few more forward thinking lines).

 

They did seem to be getting there more recently and the Central line (?) Underground signalling display seemed to be a good advert for early computing (the eight pairs of red and yellow logic gates occupying a couple of feet of average bookshelf but producing just one Byte of data).

Victoria line, housed in the 312 car iirc.

 

It predates computers really as it is iirc analogue in nature with each module only having 4bytes memory (again iirc).

 

Photos of it are on my Flickr if interested.

[Wolf27]

Did anyone go the the open day on Sunday?

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Dava]

A small but important point is that there is not just 'one example of AL1-5 preserved' but the AC Locomotives Group have preserved and restored one each of classes AL1,2,3 and 5 -and two class 86, one 87, and the 89. http://www.aclocogroup.co.uk/stock.php

 

A visit to Barrow Hill [when it reopens] will reveal the AL1-5. The 86 and 87 locos work on main line specials. There is hope of the 85 at least working in future. This group has/is doing amazing work.

 

Dava

Edited August 15, 2017 by Dava

[Sir Hadyn]

Dava, sadly the ACLG gave up their custodianship of the AL4, which is now on display at Bo'ness given its North British construction but the Group's work is inspiring and incredibly worthwhile.

[Dava]

Indeed, I didn't mention the AL4 which is not included on the ACLG website. I must have missed it on my last visit to the Museum of Scottish Railways at Bo'Ness as I don't remember it!

 

Maybe I was so impressed by the examples of National Collection 4-4-0s - 1000 and Gordon Highlander - which were so at home there. It was one of 'Morayshire's' last steamings - another publicly owned 4-4-0 [National Museums of. Scotland]. All demonstrating that curation of such historic locos and other exhibits can work so well in preservation if the investment in covered accommodation and the visitor experience has been made. What a comparison with that Zaha Hadid's postmodern Riverside nonsense in Glasgow.

 

Dava

[Kelly]

Did anyone go the the open day on Sunday?

 

Cheers

 

Shane

I'd intended to, but car troubles prevented it.

[cg501]

Did anyone go the the open day on Sunday?

 

Cheers

 

Shane

 

Shane just to let you know, over 700 did go to the open day last Sunday which was the museums largest attendance for a single day. 

 

The Museum also has a petition against the closure of the museum and information can be found here https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/support-a-future-for-the-electric-railway-museum

 

Andrew Humphries

501 Project and ERM site Manager

[Wolf27]

That's a great turnout, amazing how bad news can motivate people. I have signed the petition and I really do hope it does some good.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[CovDriver]

Likewise Shane I've also signed the petition I really hope there is a bright future for the stock at Baginton.

Do you know what the plan is for the signalbox and station building as it would be a great shame for them to be destined for the bonfire.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[298]

That's a great turnout, amazing how bad news can motivate people. I have signed the petition and I really do hope it does some good.

Cheers

Shane

"Normal" friends of ours went and seemingly enjoyed it, thus showing that the news of its existence is getting out there.

[298]

Likewise Shane I've also signed the petition I really hope there is a bright future for the stock at Baginton.

Do you know what the plan is for the signalbox and station building as it would be a great shame for them to be destined for the bonfire.

Cheers

Colin

Considering there weren't any takers for Coundon Rd Box fairly recently, sadly it might be assumed that the preservation of such items has reached saturation point.

[Pacific231G]

Bearing in mind most of the electric stock is 3rd rail it is doubtful they'd get permission to lay suitable electrification to run the trains due to current health and safety laws in place (in part why network rail don't extend any of the current 3rd rail network).

 

So alternative means of moving the stock to put on something like crich would be needed. They previously had 3 mlvs, but 2 were sold and the other scrapped, but the battery replacement costs were too high.

 

It is a difficult one to figure out really, as to have such stock moving as an exhibition in the same way as crich would require masses more room.

It can be done

Preserved Sprague Paris Metro train at the Baie de Somme Festival a Vapeur in 2013

 

In the Sprague set (which has been preserved by enthusiasts not a public body) one of the driving cars has a silent diesel generator to power the train's electrics and the shoes are of course isolated.

 

I don't know if this approach- possibly using a coupled generator wagon-  would be too inauthentic but it avoids the need for a live rail.

 

I'm ashamed to admit though that, until this thread appeared, I'd never even heard of the Electric Railway Museum. 

There was news this morning that the John Milton Cottage Museum in Chalfont St. Giles is threatened with closure so life isn't easy for small private museums. .

Edited August 17, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Titan]

The only bureaucracy stopping you having live third rail, or indeed 25kv, is lack of an appropriate SMS.

[Pacific231G]

The only bureaucracy stopping you having live third rail, or indeed 25kv, is lack of an appropriate SMS.

I don't think that's quite true. According to the ORR http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/17621/dc-electrification-policy-statement.pdf

there is a general presumption against any further third rail electrification unless very good reasons can be demonstrated for its use. That has covered some minor extensions and its use on new tube lines (with a fourth rail as well of course) on the grounds of compatibility. Open third rail simply doesn't meet current safety rules which are there to avoid workers and the public from being killed or injured not to make the world more bureaucratic.  According to the RSSB, fatal and serious injuries related to electrification are sixteen times more prevalent per mile on the traditional third rail network than on lines with OHE.

[298]

The only bureaucracy stopping you having live third rail, or indeed 25kv, is lack of an appropriate SMS.

 

Isn't it due to the lack of interest/will/desire to do so, hence the existence of the ERM in the first place...? Sometimes the "Heritage" aspect has little role to play when the business model dictates the use of Mk1 TSO stock and whatever appropriately sized steam loco to give visitors a box to tick as the real heritage sits rotting in the sidings. 

[Titan]

I don't think that's quite true. According to the ORR http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/17621/dc-electrification-policy-statement.pdf

there is a general presumption against any further third rail electrification unless very good reasons can be demonstrated for its use. That has covered some minor extensions and its use on new tube lines (with a fourth rail as well of course) on the grounds of compatibility. Open third rail simply doesn't meet current safety rules which are there to avoid workers and the public from being killed or injured not to make the world more bureaucratic.  According to the RSSB, fatal and serious injuries related to electrification are sixteen times more prevalent per mile on the traditional third rail network than on lines with OHE.

 

But that is just policy, not law. It is not illegal for a railway independent of Network rail to lay third rail, and if they have a suitable SMS the HSE can't stop them either.

[Titan]

Isn't it due to the lack of interest/will/desire to do so, 

 

Hence why I said the only bureaucracy stopping it...

[Wolf27]

If there is proper segregation and management of a demo line equipped with 3rd rail and overhead, whats the real problem?

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Zomboid]

Nothing. It's purely down to proving that it can be done without introducing an unacceptable risk.

There is no legal reason why the East Lancs couldn't install 25kV if they wanted to. It's just money and desire. Or they could put some of that side contact 1200V DC that they had round there pre metrolink. Or the Bluebell railway could rebuild the Ardingly line with 750V DC if they wanted. Or the Epping & Ongar could install a 4 rail DC system.

 

I don't think any of that is likely because it would be extremely expensive in terms of preserved railways and electric traction doesn't pull in Mr & Mrs Family, but it could all be done within the law as it stands now.

[PrestburyJack]

*COVENTRY ELECTRIC RAILWAY MUSEUM SITE TO CLOSE*

 

We will be actively working with the railway heritage sector to ensure that vehicles and locomotives currently on the site are not endangered with a view in the longer term to establish a new site for the ERM.

 

Our remaining open days for 2017 will go ahead as planned on the following dates:

 

Saturday & Sunday September 9th & 10th

Sunday October 8th

 

I visited last Saturday, 8th September. When I arrived at 10:45 am (it only opened at 10:30am) the car park was filling up nicely. Most visitors appeared to be Mr & Mrs Average with their 2.1 children, presumably from Coventry and nearby. Whether this was because ERM is closing, or the date was part of a national "Heritage" weekend, I can't comment. But nice to see what appeared to be a good turnout.

 

According to one organiser places have been found for all the stock, but note it is 'places' plural, the collection will be scattered far and wide.

 

They have an excellent souvenir handbook in colour A4, well worth purchasing for £5.

 

Here are a few pictures I took:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This last shot almost makes it look as though the site was served by a branch from the main line, and not the non-rail greenfield site that it really is:

 

 

Thanks to all the volunteers who made it a good morning out, including showing me between sidings which were fenced off to the public.

Edited September 14, 2017 by PrestburyJack

[Sir Hadyn]

Been there for a meeting today and was really taken with the ERM's achievements so far. Do go and support them on 8th October and the £5 visitor guide book is one of the best I've seen in recent years and well worth adding to your library.

[Kelly]

Glad to hear that places have been found for the stock, even if it means access becomes difficult or impossible for a time after 8th October.