GWR & LNWR Pre-grouping 4mm locos workbench

[Brassey]

Is the brake compo possibly for staff accommodation?

 

That's an interesting angle though break compos (1st/3rd class) were generally used as through carriages.  I think for staff they would have used a third class carriage and there would have been staff accommodation in the Post Office and Sorting vehicles none of which would have had corridor access to the compo (which is listed as non-corridor).

 

I think it was going to Merthyr for a return working the next morning. It is a relatively short vehicle even in those days (1912).  In the carriage diagrams it is listed as balanced with the 9:30 am though I can't find a 9:30 train out of Merthyr in the timetable, only a 9:15 so it could have been in that train.  I don't have any carriage diagrams for that area to check unfortunately  .

 

I have become somewhat obsessed with Merthyr because I'd read somewhere that Merthyr had at least one through train to Manchester a day but I cannot find it.  You would have thought being at the extreme end of the LNWR network that it would had at least one direct train to the major Northern cities.  

[Brassey]

The Dean Goods must be my favourite loco because, when I returned to the hobby after career and other life stages, I found that I'd acquired 4 Dean Goods chassis in the intervening years.  My very first loco was a whitemetal K's Dean Goods many years ago so I guess in the back of my mind these chassis were destined for that.  But I'd also acquired a number of Mallard etches too and a tender.  If that was not enough, I then bought a High Level chassis and finally a Dean Goods kit from Martin Finney at Scaleforum who persuaded me to go for the working inside motion too!

 

This Christmas break gave me some time to build another one of the chassis which is a Comet version that I have also built sprung using the Comet components.  I've also included "dummy" inside motion that Brassmasters now supply with the Finney kits now in their stable.  More detail for those interested is in my blog.

 

[russell price]

Im trying to resurrect an ancient Mc Gowan 517 to represent ex GWR 567 which was working slightly further north on the Bishops Castle Railway, Ive been busy rebuilding the cab as BCR No1 had a somewhat unusual cab with the rear sheet of the cab enclosing the bunker, No1 also retained its smokebox wings until her demise in 1936. The tanks have also had some different style repairs. The cab was built in her time on the BCR as a photo of her exists at Craven Arms on delivery to the BCR, She was held at Craven Arms until the BCR cheque cleared before release.

[Methuselah]

Not models - but some interesting early 1900's LNWR loco action - no sound of course. The 'chase' sequence is particularly interesting.

 

(Seems to play better if you reduce the speed to 0.5)

 

 

Bogie coaches pulled by a Precursor 4-4-0 out of Euston, headed for Glasgow.

 

(Towards the end we get a glimpse of Caledonian Railway Class 139 "Dunalastair IV" Superheater 4-4-0, being banked up a gradient. I think this was built around 1910.)

 

This one may be Euston, where a double-headed train arrives pulled by possibly an LNWR 2-2-2 and a 2-4-0.

 

 

Here is some LNWR footage taken in and around Stafford in 1911;-

 

[Mikkel]

Magnificent. I especially like the brief horse shunting scene.

[Compound2632]

The first two clips have been discussed on the LNWR Facebook group.

 

The train leaving Euston is of course the 2pm "Corridor", with the luxury 12-wheel stock built for that service in 1908-9 and headed by a Precursor with a 3-digit number possibly beginning with 4 - could be 412 Alfred Paget, or 419 Monarch? The "Racing the Scotch Express" features a different train, again headed by a Precursor but made up of cove-roof carriages - there weren't any cove-roof carriages built for the WCJS so we're being fibbed to; also the lack of dining carriages suggests a less prestigious service. Towards the end of that sequence, the train changes to one of arc-roofed carriages; these could be WCJS. The Beattock clip shows some older arc-roofed carriages, possibly some of the original 42ft corridor carriages of 1892.

 

The second clip was identified as Preston. The train is made up of quite a mix of non-corridor 6-wheel and 42ft bogie carriages, along with a couple of 50ft corridor thirds. The train engine is a 4-cylinder compound 4-4-0 of the Alfred the Great class, piloted by a Problem class 2-2-2. There was some discussion about the rod-shaped package with price tag still attached, carried by the man in the boater.

 

I've not seen the Stafford clip before - some rather dicey head out of the window stuff: note how the film cuts just before we get too close to the tender of the engine backing out on the adjacent line! Just as well those old LNWR carriages were only 8ft wide! The tunnel is Shugborough. In the horse shunting clip, there's a Class B 4-cylinder compound 0-8-0 beating a hasty retreat.

 

Wonderful stuff! Look out for the ones taken on the mainland side of the Menai Bridge too.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Compound2632

[Brassey]

This is more loco related:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeojYgl5GFE

 

[Methuselah]

Those Claughtons really were pig-ugly I'm afraid....

[Compound2632]

Those Claughtons really were pig-ugly I'm afraid....

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've always thought them rather handsome, certainly compared with the plain-ness of the earlier Whale and Bowen Cooke 4-4-0s and 4-6-0s - though the Experiment/Prince of Wales hang together better than the Precursor/George the Fifths. The LMS geventually gave some Claughtons the bigger boiler they should have had originally if the LNWR's Civil Engineer had understood dynamic forces, to the detriment of the appearance of the front end - though smoke deflectors masked the worst.

 

But if you want a really pig-ugly LNWR engine, you can't do better (worse?) than the 2-8-0 versions of the 4-cylinder compound goods engines - classes E and F.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Compound2632

[Methuselah]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've always thought them rather handsome, certainly compared with the plain-ness of the earlier Whale and Bowen Cooke 4-4-0s and 4-6-0s - though the Experiment/Prince of Wales hang together better than the Precursor/George the Fifths. The LMS geventually gave some Claughtons the bigger boiler they should have had originally if the LNWR's Civil Engineer had understood dynamic forces, to the detriment of the appearance of the front end - though smoke deflectors masked the worst.

 

But if you want a really pig-ugly LNWR engine, you can't do better (worse?) than the 2-8-0 versions of the 4-cylinder compound goods engines - classes E and F.

 

It is a little subjective, but that long weird valance/frame really marr's them for me. I can't claim much knowledge about the LNWR, but oddly, I have grown to rather like the rather tubby, pugnacious LNWR eight-coupled goods locos  - no accounting for taste is there...! 

[Brassey]

Thankfully the Claughtons were banned from the North to West route pre WW1 so I don't need to build any.  I understand the kits that do exist for these (Jidenco?) are right pigs to build.

 

I do have both a Precursor and Experiment in the kit mountain, somewhere near the bottom at the mo.

[Compound2632]

It is a little subjective, but that long weird valance/frame really marr's them for me. I can't claim much knowledge about the LNWR, but oddly, I have grown to rather like the rather tubby, pugnacious LNWR eight-coupled goods locos  - no accounting for taste is there...! 

 

I have confessed to a weakness for the pot-bellied Class A 3-cylinder compound 0-8-0s.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Thankfully the Claughtons were banned from the North to West route pre WW1 so I don't need to build any.  I understand the kits that do exist for these (Jidenco?) are right pigs to build.

 

I do have both a Precursor and Experiment in the kit mountain, somewhere near the bottom at the mo.

DJH do the small boiler Claughton too.

 

Ugly, well the LNWR Greater Britain fits the bill, as do the three cylinder compound 0-8-0s. 

 

I can't agree that this is ugly:

 

 

There is something about the proportions of a 2-4-0, 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 which, given simple, uncluttered, design seems to work.

 

Looking further afield, the MR Flatiron 0-6-4T, the GWR 3600 2-4-2T, the LBSCR H1 Atlantic are just a few of the pre-group locomotives that lack clear lines and "balance". Of course this is all somewhat subjective.

[Compound2632]

Jol, I'll give you the Greater Britain and John Hick 2-2-2-2s, but how can you possibly accuse a Teutonic of ugliness?

 

 

Of course, this is all relative:

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Compound2632

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol, I'll give you the Greater Britain and John Hick 2-2-2-2s, but how can you possibly accuse a Teutonic of ugliness?

 

Jeanie_Deans_engine.jpg

 

Of course, this is all relative:

 

4-4-0_Midland_Beatrice_1757.jpg

Stephen,

 

I didn't mention Teutonics. I think they look great, preferably in the later, short front end, version. That's how I'll build mine - Adriatic - the last to survive.

 

The MR 4-4-0s look great, but I am not tempted to build one!

 

Jol

[Methuselah]

Thankfully the Claughtons were banned from the North to West route pre WW1 so I don't need to build any.  I understand the kits that do exist for these (Jidenco?) are right pigs to build.

 

I do have both a Precursor and Experiment in the kit mountain, somewhere near the bottom at the mo.

 

Phew - I'm glad I'm not alone then.....:-)

[Methuselah]

 

 

There is something about the proportions of a 2-4-0, 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 which, given simple, uncluttered, design seems to work.

 

I must say that, over the years I have also come to the conclusion that there is something about 4-4-0's. A certain aesthetic simplicity and often, a clean elegance. They must often have been pretty efficient too, looking at the number of coached hauled and all by a relatively small boiled loco in most cases. Some were fast too.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I must say that, over the years I have also come to the conclusion that there is something about 4-4-0's. A certain aesthetic simplicity and often, a clean elegance. They must often have been pretty efficient too, looking at the number of coached hauled and all by a relatively small boiled loco in most cases. Some were fast too.

I've just re read O S Nock's Railway Race to the North. I recommend it as an insight to the performance pre-group singles and four coupled locos during the accelerated runs to Edinburgh in the 1995 "race". Nock makes a point of comparing performance against the weight ( including tender) hauled by these locomotives, as a ratio of the loco weight. They compared favourably with what the LMS and LNER pacifics achieved forty years or more later.

[Siberian Snooper]

I've just re read O S Nock's Railway Race to the North. I recommend it as an insight to the performance pre-group singles and four coupled locos during the accelerated runs to Edinburgh in the 1995 "race". Nock makes a point of comparing performance against the weight ( including tender) hauled by these locomotives, as a ratio of the loco weight. They compared favourably with what the LMS and LNER pacifics achieved forty years or more later.

 

An there was me under the impression that steam ceased to be in 1968.

[Jol Wilkinson]

An there was me under the impression that steam ceased to be in 1968.

Mea culpa!, I should have written 1895.

 

Although steam locos are still in use in the UK, just not by British Railways, which no longer exists.

[Albyn]

On 18/01/2019 at 22:02, russell price said:

Im trying to resurrect an ancient Mc Gowan 517 to represent ex GWR 567 which was working slightly further north on the Bishops Castle Railway, Ive been busy rebuilding the cab as BCR No1 had a somewhat unusual cab with the rear sheet of the cab enclosing the bunker, No1 also retained its smokebox wings until her demise in 1936. The tanks have also had some different style repairs. The cab was built in her time on the BCR as a photo of her exists at Craven Arms on delivery to the BCR, She was held at Craven Arms until the BCR cheque cleared before release.

As a BCR enthusiast I was interested to hear that a photo exists of No. 1 at Craven Arms on delivery to the BCR sans cab.  Current thoughts are that the cab was built by the GWR - but maybe fitted at BC?  I've never seen the photo you mention.

regards,

Albyn Austin 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Albyn
want to see replies

[Albyn]

photo of No. 1

[Compound2632]

The rear cab side sheets look as if they've been recycled...

The front ones just look like someone had a bad day with the piercing saw.

[russell price]

it has been published so shall see if I can find it. Just looking at Ifor Higgin s photos in a lightmoor press book and mums house is in clear view. The house became the property of the Carpenters and John Roberts all involved with the BCR

[russell price]

does anyone have photos of LNWR locos at Welshpool please or what would have run from Shrewsbury please