RMweb Premium Shropshire Lad Posted December 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2018 I've just pre ordered two,not convinced I'll ever see them but hoping that I will! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 If only Dave would say how short he is of putting the van in to production... Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Retail pre-orders presumably don't provide Dave with any up-front cash to fund production, so even if orders met requirements I imagine this project is unlikely to be a priority for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Battersby Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Since there's no way to pre-order on his website I've done so, for two, with Hatton's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2018 Is DJM posting any regular updates on any forthcoming products anywhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Now only on the website - https://djmodels.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2018 Can't find anywhere on there to order directly any Sharks though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 The Shark is being sold only via retailers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted January 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2019 Come on chaps--order these to get them off the ground--my Dogfish are waiting to leave the yard! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 My raft of mermaids too! I have so much confidence in these appearing that I've reworked my NGS Sharks though... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Come on chaps--order these to get them off the ground--my Dogfish are waiting to leave the yard! My understanding is that the Shark is not crowdfunded and will be distributed and sold through retailers (with perhaps a few direct sales through his website) so the majority of orders will be bulk ones that the retailers will have placed for their stock. Individuals ordering one or two more (as encouraged here) through a retailer won't necessarily affect their original shelf stocking pre-order quantities. It is likely that Dave won't get to know on a day-by-day order-by-order basis how pre-sales are going. And on top of that the retailers are offering a range of liveries yet I suspect DJM will only produce one livery at a time so knowing which that will be and which to order further complicates things. Finally, I guess that Dave can't afford to give the go-ahead for production and pay for the Shark without the guarantee of pre-orders and/or deposits, but somehow I doubt he is actually getting many deposits for the Shark and I'd assume no-one is going to pre-pay the full amount when placing an order that they could simply wait and purchase from a shop once available. I have concerns for the DJM Shark project. G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted January 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2019 Grahame, I think you could take the word "Shark" out of your last sentence and it would still be perfectly valid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted January 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) I can’t help wondering whether this project would have been more successful if it had been crowdfunded. I am no businessman but it does seem that the crowdfunding route does add a sense of urgency to the proceedings and gives people a bit more impetus to place an order. The feeling that you can just buy one of these when they arrive in the shops does not seem to be helping. Especially so as the prototype, useful though it is, doesn’t have the “wow” factor of things like the Pendolino. I’ve ordered all four Dutch versions (which is more than I need) to try to help get this wagon produced but I’ve also bought a couple of the NGS kits, just in case. And who knows, maybe in just over an hour we'll read that Farish are announcing one... Grahame, I think you could take the word "Shark" out of your last sentence and it would still be perfectly valid.I’d like to think by at least this time next year I’ll have a lovely pair of Kings to run. I hope my optimism isn’t misplaced. Edited January 15, 2019 by Western Aviator 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted January 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2019 I’d like to think by at least this time next year I’ll have a lovely pair of Kings to run. I hope my optimism isn’t misplaced. I really do hope you're right. I'm not so interested in the Kings, but more Mermaids, the Sharks and the Class 17 would all be welcome. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 . . . . more Mermaids, the Sharks and the Class 17 would all be welcome. Yes, they would be welcome but unfortunately I can't see that happening any time soon. Dave told me at Warley that he had to remainder/off-load Mermaids cheaply to retailers (to liquidate his stock holdings) and was unlikely to produce any other livery batches (but I guess that consequently there are ones available to purchase from traders - and it might be a good idea to get in quick and get some for re-painting/re-liverying before they all get sold). The Sharks seem to be on hold (as already indicated) and the class 17 has quite a sad and sorry back story. Tooling was obviously undertaken for it but where it is and who owns it is in question. DJM have indicated that the project is in abeyance (cancelled?). G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I wonder if Dave would consider the crowd funding route for the Shark? Surely most of the work is already done and it could be worth asking the N gauge community. Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yes, they would be welcome but unfortunately I can't see that happening any time soon. Dave told me at Warley that he had to remainder/off-load Mermaids cheaply to retailers (to liquidate his stock holdings) and was unlikely to produce any other livery batches (but I guess that consequently there are ones available to purchase from traders - and it might be a good idea to get in quick and get some for re-painting/re-liverying before they all get sold). The Sharks seem to be on hold (as already indicated) and the class 17 has quite a sad and sorry back story. Tooling was obviously undertaken for it but where it is and who owns it is in question. DJM have indicated that the project is in abeyance (cancelled?). G MONEY for tooling the Class 17 was taken by the Chinese factory, but Dave gave me the impression at Warley that the tooling wasn't actually done. He certainly wasn't at all hopeful of recovering the money. He is not the only manufacturer in that position. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 MONEY for tooling the Class 17 was taken by the Chinese factory, but Dave gave me the impression at Warley that the tooling wasn't actually done. He certainly wasn't at all hopeful of recovering the money. He is not the only manufacturer in that position. Les Hi Les " If the Class 17 tooling wasn't done, then what was the "first EP seen at TINGS the year before last and later running on a layout? Are you saying it actually wasn't and was some kind of lash-up from 3D prints? I had a good look at it and it certainly seemed like the real deal to me. The reason Dave asked for support was to get it to 2nd EP stage and beyond, or at least that was the basis upon which I put up my money (since fully refunded) and I have no reason to doubt him. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 MONEY for tooling the Class 17 was taken by the Chinese factory, but Dave gave me the impression at Warley that the tooling wasn't actually done. He certainly wasn't at all hopeful of recovering the money. He is not the only manufacturer in that position. I'm not so sure. I've heard alternative stories. I guess we'll never know the all the truth. For example there were claims that there was an EP version displayed that was produced from tooling. And I'd suggest that claiming a Chinese factory took money and didn't deliver something in exchange might be treading on dodgy ground without being sure of the full facts. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted January 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2019 He is not the only manufacturer in that position. Les Which other manufacturers are in the same position? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Which other manufacturers are in the same position? Look across the pond to those manufacturers with a Chinese supplier that has ceased trading and not released their tooling. Not an identical position but not far off.... Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2019 Look across the pond to those manufacturers with a Chinese supplier that has ceased trading and not released their tooling. Not an identical position but not far off.... Les Quite a way off actually. The factory that was working on the DJM Class 17 is not only still trading but is probably now actually in the throes of producing (as in the main manufacturing run) a loco for another UK customer - the livery samples having been approved and early delivery anticipated. Oddly the same factory also produced models for a UK customer other than DJM after the Class 17 project ceased to progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted January 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2019 Look across the pond to those manufacturers with a Chinese supplier that has ceased trading and not released their tooling. Not an identical position but not far off.... Les As SM has mentioned above, that’s not the same thing at all. US companies like Exactrail were caught in an unexpected closure of a manufacturer. https://exactrail.com/blogs/announcements/now-for-some-bad-news They and others moved production to new facilities, and have helped each other out with scheduling production runs so the affected companies get a bite of the cherry at the replacement factory/ies. https://exactrail.com/blogs/announcements/an-update-of-the-n-scale-kind https://exactrail.com/blogs/announcements/gsi-53-6-bulkhead-flat-car-an-update Clearly Exactrail (and others) were able to resolve this problem http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/134770-cemflo-by-accurascale/page-8 (Post #186) So which other companies have paid for models, and have not had them supplied, or their tools not returned? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2019 MONEY for tooling the Class 17 was taken by the Chinese factory, but Dave gave me the impression at Warley that the tooling wasn't actually done. He certainly wasn't at all hopeful of recovering the money. He is not the only manufacturer in that position. Les I think you really need to insert the word "allegedly" in there. There is a lot of hearsay floating around about why the relationship between DJM and the Chinese factory they were using ended, all of it anecdotal, based on one side of the story and with no comment from the factory. Or in other words we don't know what happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 This has been quiet for a while... Of the two model wagons Dave has had tooled, we have only seen the Mermaid reach production. This has received a lot of positive comments, and indeed I am very pleased with my four BR black ones, a livery which seem to have sold through pleasingly quickly. For reasons best known to Dave (and it was his business decision to make) he went with the Dutch livery next. With hindsight, the Olive and Indian Red ones may well have sold better, covering as they do the steam/diesel transition and post (at a pinch) and pre-tops blue diesel eras - far more modellers to target than in Dutch alone. Yes, it is possible to repaint a Dutch one into another livery, but achieving the same standard of lettering quite a different matter, coupled to which the retailers do not appear keen to discount them much below £18.50 in spite of them tying up working capital already for a comparatively long period. As the tooling is in place it is a shame that further production runs do not appear possible to sweat these assets more. The Shark, also tooled, has livery samples signed off for at least two (Black and Indian Red) to appears ready to go. Dave is clearly not comfortable proceeding based on take up from retailers and his experience with the Mermaids which is a shame given how much he must have spent already to get this far. A lot of us have said we have committed to order one or several from retailers, but what we do not know is how that translates into total numbers v minimum order quantity from the factory, only Dave will know this (quite rightly). I do wonder though if it might be possible to go with a run of the single most popular livery (based on pre-orders) on the basis that both are transition era models and reasonable to conclude (for the sake of discussion) that a fair proportion who have committed for black ones may switch to Indian Red if only that gets made initially, thus not leaving Dave with the less popular variant in stock and cash tied up in it. Just a thought, as it seems such a shame for Dave to not be able to generate an income from these assets.. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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