GWR 2-coach B-set numbers and allocations

[Miss Prism]

I have made up a table of allocations and running numbers of GWR 2-coach B-sets. I have included it on the 'Bristol Division B-set' page, although the coverage of the allocation table is rather wider than this. (I'm not sure where the 'boundaries' of the 'Bristol Division' were.)

 

The table covers E116, E129, E135, E140, E145, E147 and E167 diagrams, and includes branded and unbranded pairs, and the vehicles of those diagrams running as 'singles'. I haven't included any E157s, although I'm aware some of these ran in pairs. Inevitably, there are gaps in the known allocations/brandings.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/b-set-notes.html

Edited August 7, 2017 by Miss Prism

[jbg]

Thanks for compiling that list which is extremely helpful.  I'm not sure if this is the right place for this query but seeing as it is linked to B-sets....

 

I am currently trying to work out the likely carriage workings at Bodmin General in 1955/1956.  

 

It seems, from various sources including GWRJ 56, that the daily WR passenger service was covered by 2 B-Sets with an additional Brake Composite used on one of the early morning trains.  I'm struggling to track down details of what type of coach this single vehicle was but suspect it would most likely be a loose "B-set" BC vehicle which would probably be to dia E147 or, less likely at that date, E167.  

 

Does anyone know definitively what vehicle/type of vehicle would have been used on this service?

 

Thanks for any help anyone can give!

 

Jeremy

[chrisf]

Jeremy, forgive me if I am telling you something you already know but the special Cornish issue of GWRJ, published in 1992, is most useful.  It gives all the B set diagrams and allocations for winter 1956-57, which though not your chosen 1955-56 is pretty damn close.  Like you, I am still in search of more info about the single BC based at Bodmin.  I do know that E157 no.6265 worked in Cornwall.  It was branded 'return to Liskeard' but coaches have wheels and you never know!

 

Chris

[NCB]

Jeremy, I suspect the loose coach could be almost anything. The GWR had a habit of recycling older stock for such purposes. Best solution would be to try to track down a pic. Nigel

[jbg]

Chris,

 

Thanks for your comments.  I do have both of the GWRJ's that cover Bodmin and the B-Set allocations but they don't deal with the single coaches.  The E157 you refer to is, I think, the one pictured in The Liskeard & Looe Branch (W6265 but it has 7ft bogies) and seemed to be the extra coach for those services but, as you say, there isn't any reason why it or a similar one couldn't have made it to Bodmin...

 

Nigel, the problem is that this particular train which ran at about 06:30 doesn't appear to get photographed much.  I've been through nearly all of my sources covering Bodmin and there is little to help.

 

The only photos I have found which might give some guidance are one from the RCTS which shows an E167 (W6282 I think) coupled to a D6300 but this is at a later date, September 1963, when the older B-sets had been withdrawn.  There is another that has been the subject of identification attempts on RMWeb before but again the responses are inconclusive.

 

I suspect that this means I could get away with a loose coach from any of the 3 diagrams, E147, E157 or E167, so I'll make a choice in due course.

 

There was also another loose coach attached to one of the afternoon workings, although it is not mentioned in the diagrams in GWRJ, and this appears to be linked to the afternoon school traffic.  It appears to have been a Corridor Brake Third and I have found a photo from the early 1950's showing a downgraded Toplight Van Third and a slightly later photo showing a Collet vehicle stored in the station.  Again if anyone knows whether a particular coach was located to this duty I'd be interested to hear.

 

Thanks for your comments so far.

 

Jeremy

Edited October 2, 2017 by jbg

[chrisf]

There was also another loose coach attached to one of the afternoon workings, although it is not mentioned in the diagrams in GWRJ, and this appears to be linked to the afternoon school traffic.  It appears to have been a Corridor Brake Third and I have found a photo from the early 1950's showing a downgraded Toplight Van Third and a slightly later photo showing a Collet vehicle stored in the station.  Again if anyone knows whether a particular coach was located to this duty I'd be interested to hear.

 

 

 

Jeremy

 

I reckon that the downgraded toplight brake third is not linked to afternoon schools traffic but is a stores van.  In January 1955 a D47 brake third, 2375, was converted to replace its venerable predecessor as Stores Van No. 2, painted red and numbered DW150005.   For much of the 1950s it ran from Bodmin Road to Wadebridge on Thursdays.  Its full itinerary was:

 

Penzance dep 7.55 am

Bodmin Road arr 10.0 am, dep 10.10 am

Wadebridge arr 10.58 am, dep 12.59 pm

Okehampton arr 3.2 pm, dep 4.5 pm

Exeter St Davids arr 4.56 pm, dep 6.10 pm

Taunton arr 7.26 pm

 

The van spent Mondays being loaded at Swindon, ran from there to Exeter on Tuesdsays, Exeter to Penzance on Wednesdays and Taunton to Swindon on Fridays.  After the end of the winter 1957-58 timetable the working was altered and no longer traversed the Bodmin - Wadebridge line.  A full exposition of stores vans may be found in GWRJ nos 43, 44, 46 and 47.  It's a complex subject!

 

Chris 

[Hal Nail]

Resurrecting this in the hope someone may have some better info on the two pairs of E135 brake composites that ran on the Looe branch.

 

I know these were 57' bow ended, with curly grab handles and recessed glazing so I was thinking they are probably basically a composite version of the similar looking D98 brake thirds from around the same time (albeit the E135s were slightly narrower so that may not be the case).

 

I am building a pair using an Ian Kirk kit for a D98 with a first compartment inserted but I am guessing the spacing is broadly the same and somewhere I need to lose the extra I've inserted, so would be good to confirm where.

 

Does anyone know of a diagram or the whereabouts of a good side on photo to be able to gauge the length of the luggage portion overall and between sets of doors?

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Miss Prism]

My guess is that the E135 longitudinal layout was the same as the E129.

 

[Harlequin]

Longworth's “Pre Nationalisation Coaching Stock“ has small plan and elevation drawings of all the types mentioned - so it's great for comparison of types but not for dimensions.

The layout of E135 does look very similar to D98, with some luggage space being lost because of the first compartment.

E129 has one more third compartment than E135 and the luggage space loses out again, of course.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Harlequin

[Hal Nail]

8 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Longworth “Pre Nationalisation Coaching Stock“ has small plan and elevation drawings of all the types mentioned.

The layout of E135 does look very similar to D98, with some luggage space being lost

 

Excellent thanks, i'll try and get hold of that 

 

The few photos I've got handy are quite forshortened so not entirely helpful but it does look like the the gap between the last compartment and the guards door is short rather than stricly luggage space - so thats what lead to my doubts and wanting to check.

 

Rough mock up before cutting the end compartment panel in half.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Miss Prism]

So the E135 has two 1st class compartments (compared to the E129, which only has one)?

 

 

[Hal Nail]

10 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

So the E135 has two 1st class compartments (compared to the E129, which only has one)?

 

 

3 3rds (or 2nds later) 1 first 2 3rds then guard/luggage.

 

Been kindly sent a diagram now and it is just a D98 with one first instead of a 3rd and a fraction less guard area.

 

and 2 inches narrower i think - not sure why that was.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Harlequin]

E129: 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, Guard & Luggage

E135: 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, Guard & Luggage

 

[Hal Nail]

Having played around armed with a diagram, I can confirm that Swindon standardisation was in full flow in 1929. The E135 6 compartment brake composite and the 6 compartment D98 brake third of the same period, differ only in the spacing of the thirds, the added first (which is larger than other composites), a different sized guards area, and the spacing either side of the luggage doors. Oh, and the overall width.

 

Basically I can use the doors!

Edited April 29, 2022 by Hal Nail
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