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On 15/05/2020 at 22:12, Erichill16 said:

Good evening(?)

Just ordered combo on website so didn’t speak to anyone! Didn’t bother with wheels, I’ll make do with what I’ve got. If when refurbished  it’s deserves a better set then I may splash out.

Enjoy the weekend,

Robert

I hope it all works out, don’t hesitate to ask for any help, I was given loads of help, so I don’t mind at all, giving some help back 

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Any suggestions as to hide the hole in the scenic break would be gratefully received! Going to look at the local stone and see what sort of bridge would look most at home 

 

Chris G

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4 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

 

Sorry for the late reply, I’d been out camping on the weekend, bit nippy, but nothing -15°c rated sleeping bags didn’t cure. Had a run in with a Kangaroo on the way in, my white car turned an awful shade of red, surprisingly the Roo jumped up and went on about it’s business, shame, could of made a good dinner...

 

Back to the real world and modelling, I agree that curves do spoil realism Tony, but sometimes they are necessary, but when done right they can be easily disguised, as in my case. 
 

I like the idea of having the back scene a little behind the bridge, as you can add some landscaping behind the bridge to give a better effect, Tony has the backscene directly behind the bridge, a photo Tony would help Chris if that’s alright? Then he can look at mine and yours to see which he prefers....I hope I’m not asking to much my good sir. 

 

I think a bit of modellers licence could be used to add a bridge, but it would still look natural with a small whole cut into the backscene for the trains to pass through, if there is some landscaping around the area to disguise it. It all depends on where it is on the layout. 

Good morning Jesse,

 

Glad to help if I can.

 

963291445_MGNRbridge24.jpg.05c5acc9903168fc262e76c570da8db7.jpg

 

This view shows the proximity of the girder bridge at the north end of Little Bytham to the backscene. 

 

What's vital to realism (in my view) in the case of LB is that the main lines go on/offstage on the straight.

 

581436343_LittleBytham02.jpg.1b828029a622236d866dfd66e3b22f03.jpg

 

The curves do not begin for a further six inches beyond the scenic break. 

 

735734627_MGNRbridge23.jpg.2cf31127ff2367cc85631e78956fd702.jpg

 

From this view, the curve is visible.

 

1309869513_LittleBytham03.jpg.7e215639a102124913c44cdcaaa4204f.jpg

 

832767134_MGNRbridge25A.jpg.df1ecea73aa24e6a87efda0691110a0a.jpg

 

But not from 'normal' viewing angles. 

 

It's the same at the south end.

 

2068775437_A2360500.jpg.042f802a0fd0b3784e18b1ead097c1e9.jpg

 

You can just make out the slight angle on the second carriage in this shot as it leaves the hidden curve.

 

Visible sharp curves (particularly on main lines) are anathema to realism in my book, especially if scenery is carried around them. Your loss of a bit of scenery is more than compensated for by greater realism.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Jesse,

 

Glad to help if I can.

 

963291445_MGNRbridge24.jpg.05c5acc9903168fc262e76c570da8db7.jpg

 

This view shows the proximity of the girder bridge at the north end of Little Bytham to the backscene. 

 

What's vital to realism (in my view) in the case of LB is that the main lines go on/offstage on the straight.

 

581436343_LittleBytham02.jpg.1b828029a622236d866dfd66e3b22f03.jpg

 

The curves do not begin for a further six inches beyond the scenic break. 

 

735734627_MGNRbridge23.jpg.2cf31127ff2367cc85631e78956fd702.jpg

 

From this view, the curve is visible.

 

1309869513_LittleBytham03.jpg.7e215639a102124913c44cdcaaa4204f.jpg

 

832767134_MGNRbridge25A.jpg.df1ecea73aa24e6a87efda0691110a0a.jpg

 

But not from 'normal' viewing angles. 

 

It's the same at the south end.

 

2068775437_A2360500.jpg.042f802a0fd0b3784e18b1ead097c1e9.jpg

 

You can just make out the slight angle on the second carriage in this shot as it leaves the hidden curve.

 

Visible sharp curves (particularly on main lines) are anathema to realism in my book, especially if scenery is carried around them. Your loss of a bit of scenery is more than compensated for by greater realism.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Excellent photos as ever Tony, there you are Chris, some ideas there and I’ll take some photos tomorrow of mine, so you can compare the pair. 
 

Anathema? Everytime you reply on a post for me there is always a word I don’t know...do you do it on purpose to confuse me? I need a dictionary Everytime I go on rmweb. 
 

 

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Every day's a school day.... and that's how it should be.

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16 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

I hope it all works out, don’t hesitate to ask for any help, I was given loads of help, so I don’t mind at all, giving some help back 

Thanks, not done anything yet as I want to get the chassis running sweetly before I move on to the body. I had an email today saying  I should get items tomorrow. I know for sure I’m going to have to re-route the pickups.
I’ve been looking at Yeadons register to find a suitable number. Some were based in Barnsley where I live but by the looks of it the tender is the wrong sort for them. The tender type in the kit is suitable for ones based in Sheffield which is about 15 miles from where I live so I’ll probably go for one of those. Have you got a number sorted for yours?
I’ll keep you posted as to progress but I’m not a quick modeller unlike some on this thread!
Regards

Robert

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11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Jesse,

 

Glad to help if I can.

 

963291445_MGNRbridge24.jpg.05c5acc9903168fc262e76c570da8db7.jpg

 

This view shows the proximity of the girder bridge at the north end of Little Bytham to the backscene. 

 

What's vital to realism (in my view) in the case of LB is that the main lines go on/offstage on the straight.

 

581436343_LittleBytham02.jpg.1b828029a622236d866dfd66e3b22f03.jpg

 

The curves do not begin for a further six inches beyond the scenic break. 

 

735734627_MGNRbridge23.jpg.2cf31127ff2367cc85631e78956fd702.jpg

 

From this view, the curve is visible.

 

1309869513_LittleBytham03.jpg.7e215639a102124913c44cdcaaa4204f.jpg

 

832767134_MGNRbridge25A.jpg.df1ecea73aa24e6a87efda0691110a0a.jpg

 

But not from 'normal' viewing angles. 

 

It's the same at the south end.

 

2068775437_A2360500.jpg.042f802a0fd0b3784e18b1ead097c1e9.jpg

 

You can just make out the slight angle on the second carriage in this shot as it leaves the hidden curve.

 

Visible sharp curves (particularly on main lines) are anathema to realism in my book, especially if scenery is carried around them. Your loss of a bit of scenery is more than compensated for by greater realism.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

That’s fantastic Tony! 
This is where I’m planning to put my scenic break

EA3112EF-9F3D-48FC-A23F-A599144BAA19.jpeg.0dde69fb64199186ddd9724112152d17.jpeg

So a bridge just in front of it will disguise the curve to some extent, and I’ve tried to make the curve as gentle as I can in the space I have. 
 

Chris

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10 hours ago, Wingman Mothergoose said:

That’s fantastic Tony! 
This is where I’m planning to put my scenic break

EA3112EF-9F3D-48FC-A23F-A599144BAA19.jpeg.0dde69fb64199186ddd9724112152d17.jpeg

So a bridge just in front of it will disguise the curve to some extent, and I’ve tried to make the curve as gentle as I can in the space I have. 
 

Chris

Thanks Chris,

 

That's a good dodge to have an overbridge at near 45 degrees to disguise the curve going on/offstage (provided you're not tempted to carry on with scenic work beyond it - other than to 'imply' something beyond, such as a cutting side which can be seen through the bridge). 

 

I've used it at both ends of the MR/M&GNR section on LB. I described the procedure on Wright Writes some little time ago.

 

Rather than clog up Jesse's thread, I'll post some pictures on 'mine' later today........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Chris,

 

That's a good dodge to have an overbridge at near 45 degrees to disguise the curve going on/offstage (provided you're not tempted to carry on with scenic work beyond it - other than to 'imply' something beyond, such as a cutting side which can be seen through the bridge). 

 

I've used it at both ends of the MR/M&GNR section on LB. I described the procedure on Wright Writes some little time ago.

 

Rather than clog up Jesse's thread, I'll post some pictures on 'mine' later today........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Clog up all you like Tony, I certainly don’t hold back on your thread. 

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10 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Clog up all you like Tony, I certainly don’t hold back on your thread. 

Here goes then.......................

 

Shots of how the on/offstage curves on the MR/M&GNR bit of LB were 'disguised.............

 

1765747976_Bridges11.jpg.ecfff17b9b0808a5b93940cc554fa373.jpg

 

1671875125_Bridges12.jpg.87359ae6dd102b7f549193bb03c954e5.jpg

 

245773324_Bridges13.jpg.957de737ab2f617ff2dc74af94bc7521.jpg

 

1583310827_D9604001.jpg.1de44083c1c06b3e4291a3a0a905e0e0.jpg

 

1329861352_newD163.jpg.777c3e4fdf0bd35c0ddeb98591c44d07.jpg

 

338707166_Bridges14.jpg.7262cbd82d3b6a58737c5a91a1aba1a4.jpg

 

Full explanations on Wright Writes................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Here goes then.......................

 

Shots of how the on/offstage curves on the MR/M&GNR bit of LB were 'disguised.............

 

1765747976_Bridges11.jpg.ecfff17b9b0808a5b93940cc554fa373.jpg

 

1671875125_Bridges12.jpg.87359ae6dd102b7f549193bb03c954e5.jpg

 

245773324_Bridges13.jpg.957de737ab2f617ff2dc74af94bc7521.jpg

 

1583310827_D9604001.jpg.1de44083c1c06b3e4291a3a0a905e0e0.jpg

 

1329861352_newD163.jpg.777c3e4fdf0bd35c0ddeb98591c44d07.jpg

 

338707166_Bridges14.jpg.7262cbd82d3b6a58737c5a91a1aba1a4.jpg

 

Full explanations on Wright Writes................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Ah excuse me, can you please not clog up my thread....

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19 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Chris,

 

That's a good dodge to have an overbridge at near 45 degrees to disguise the curve going on/offstage (provided you're not tempted to carry on with scenic work beyond it - other than to 'imply' something beyond, such as a cutting side which can be seen through the bridge). 

 

I've used it at both ends of the MR/M&GNR section on LB. I described the procedure on Wright Writes some little time ago.

 

Rather than clog up Jesse's thread, I'll post some pictures on 'mine' later today........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The difference here is that in your examples, Tony, as shown here the scenic break bridges across the apex of the corner whereas Chris' idea goes straight into the apex. I don't quite see how that would work.

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4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The difference here is that in your examples, Tony, as shown here the scenic break bridges across the apex of the corner whereas Chris' idea goes straight into the apex. I don't quite see how that would work.

I'm not sure I understand, John,

 

The dodge of putting an overbridge to disguise entry/exit to/from the scenic section/fiddle yard is as old as railway modelling. Is't that what Chris is trying to do, or am I just dim? 

 

The point being made was that (in my case), the curve tightens as it goes from view, so the minimum radius (and thus the least-realistic) is out of sight.

 

What I also tried to explain was that it's wise (in my opinion) in refraining from carrying on the scenic work further than the bridge, other than to suggest 'something' beyond, which can be seen through the aperture of the bridge itself. In LB's MR/M&GNR case, that's a cutting side and a tree or two. Granted, the effect is still unrealistic, because the curve (even at its widest) is still ridiculous, even for a secondary line, but the effect is mitigated by having the scenic break bridge. 

 

If I can claim one contribution to Grantham's realism, it was to dissuade Graham Nicholas from taking the scenery BEYOND the old A1 road bridge at the south end as the model main lines turn through 90 degrees to enter the fiddle yard. He'd thought of including the water tower and the signals as the line heads into Saltersford cutting, but, in reality, it's dead straight (and very fast). There's space to model them, but the effect (in my opinion) would have been so unrealistic.

 

I suppose it's a 'prejudice' on my part. Too many layouts 'steal' a little bit more scenery by carrying it around a non-prototypical tight curve, especially those which depict trunk, main lines. Really, 'less is more', and I think Jesse's been very wise in losing a little bit of scenery to increase the realism.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

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4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm not sure I understand, John,

 

The dodge of putting an overbridge to disguise entry/exit to/from the scenic section/fiddle yard is as old as railway modelling. Is't that what Chris is trying to do, or am I just dim? 

 

The point being made was that (in my case), the curve tightens as it goes from view, so the minimum radius (and thus the least-realistic) is out of sight.

 

What I also tried to explain was that it's wise (in my opinion) in refraining from carrying on the scenic work further than the bridge, other than to suggest 'something' beyond, which can be seen through the aperture of the bridge itself. In LB's MR/M&GNR case, that's a cutting side and a tree or two. Granted, the effect is still unrealistic, because the curve (even at its widest) is still ridiculous, even for a secondary line, but the effect is mitigated by having the scenic break bridge. 

 

If I can claim one contribution to Grantham's realism, it was to dissuade Graham Nicholas from taking the scenery BEYOND the old A1 road bridge at the south end as the model main lines turn through 90 degrees to enter the fiddle yard. He'd thought of including the water tower and the signals as the line heads into Saltersford cutting, but, in reality, it's dead straight (and very fast). There's space to model them, but the effect (in my opinion) would have been so unrealistic.

 

I suppose it's a 'prejudice' on my part. Too many layouts 'steal' a little bit more scenery by carrying it around a non-prototypical tight curve, especially those which depict trunk, main lines. Really, 'less is more', and I think Jesse's been very wise in losing a little bit of scenery to increase the realism.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Tony, your arrangement and Jesse's create an obtuse angle in the backscene, which is easy for the eye to take in. Chris' situation would create an acute angle in the backscene, which is not.

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7 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Tony, your arrangement and Jesse's create an obtuse angle in the backscene, which is easy for the eye to take in. Chris' situation would create an acute angle in the backscene, which is not.

Thanks John,

 

I told you I was dim! Or even obtuse! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Chris, I’d suggest making the scenic break here, cutting the protection siding back a little. 

FFC2FC99-6150-492E-B4BC-3FDB95F404F3.jpeg

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49 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

Chris, I’d suggest making the scenic break here, cutting the protection siding back a little. 

FFC2FC99-6150-492E-B4BC-3FDB95F404F3.jpeg

Surely that would put an acute angle in the backscene? My original idea was to have the scenic break closer to the fiddle yard, and conceal the DMU kick back siding behind the scenery.

I did think that the line I'd chosen here created an obtuse angle with the back scene, as the scenic area is to the right of the line and not to the left

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5 hours ago, Wingman Mothergoose said:

Surely that would put an acute angle in the backscene? My original idea was to have the scenic break closer to the fiddle yard, and conceal the DMU kick back siding behind the scenery.

I did think that the line I'd chosen here created an obtuse angle with the back scene, as the scenic area is to the right of the line and not to the left

Instead of the back scene where the red and black lines are, put a bridge or short tunnel so it breaks up the curve. 

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1 hour ago, richard i said:

Instead of the back scene where the red and black lines are, put a bridge or short tunnel so it breaks up the curve. 

A bridge was what I was thinking, or I cover the hole in the backscene with some trees close to the track 

 

Chris

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Another five kits painting and awaiting smaller detail and lettering/numbering. 
 

From left to right:

 

2x DS GNR CCT Vans,  2 x Cambrian LMS and MR meat/perishable wagons and a Wizards LMS Silk wagon, the silk wagon was a bit of a pain to build to be honest, it was also hard finding liveries for it in the late 30s it could have well been scrapped by my era. 

5FDF905A-2663-44DE-B9A9-D3F4E2E41D8F.jpeg

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One thing I would recommend is to continue the ballasting beyond the scenic break, as far as the eye can follow it through the ‘hole’ in the back scene.  That way, any low angled shots that take in the scenic break aren’t detracted by the sight of ‘naked’ trackwork off-scene.   I think Tony has missed a trick there.

 

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I’ve been awfully quiet on RMWEB but that doesn’t mean I haven’t been working away. 
 

Here are a couple of things I’ve been working on... 

 

I’ve built three Parkside GWR kits, two painted awaiting transfers and another awaiting paint. I’ve just started a Wizards LMS tube wagon and half way through painting the DS perishables wagon. 
 

FE162857-D54B-42AC-94FC-9513DA5D2233.jpeg.c83f466730dc47b4d83c4c7becbf5fb1.jpeg

 

Also knocked up a NE match truck from a wizards kit and some plasticard, it’ll be in my department rake, the idea being it’s getting moved to another MPD. Another Wizards NE open wagon I’ve built and painted for a friend, it just needs transfers some cleaning up and some weathering to make it look appropriate for the late 50’s. Lastly, I’ve been giving teak another red hot go, on the ECJS luggage brake, proving troublesome, but getting there. If it doesn’t work, I’ll strip it and start again. 

 

47223BAD-748D-4E9B-BD07-46D5BFDE46BC.jpeg.41b9aa7def50b5c2f42cee75af238990.jpeg

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Jesse, try dry brushing some darker colours over the top. A burnt umber might just improve what you have got! I tend to use the cherry paints undercoat and then both the top coat colours and fine I can achieve a acceptable finish. When your over in the uk buy the paints and them put them in a plastic bag then in your spare shoes in the suit case. They will say you can't bring them on the flight but others have never been stopped as long as they are in checked luggage. 

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11 minutes ago, DougN said:

Jesse, try dry brushing some darker colours over the top. A burnt umber might just improve what you have got! I tend to use the cherry paints undercoat and then both the top coat colours and fine I can achieve a acceptable finish. When your over in the uk buy the paints and them put them in a plastic bag then in your spare shoes in the suit case. They will say you can't bring them on the flight but others have never been stopped as long as they are in checked luggage. 

At the risk of giving my secrets away, I put mine in my toilet bag among the deodorant sprays, after-shave, shaving foam and everything else. Never been a problem - so far...

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