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Woolmer Green 1935-40


Jesse Sim
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23 minutes ago, Sharky said:

Geez! You don't muck around.
Would've taken me a lot longer to do the same...

This is only the first rough kinda thing to see how it would look. I went of some measurements but might need to have a second go at the arches. 

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I just start of by saying thankyou to two friends, Graham Nicholas And Steve white. Steve very kindly went down to Woolmer Green and took over thirty photos and measurements for me and Graham very kindly helped me tweak and get my track plan right! He also pointed out a few things I had gotten wrong on the viaduct. So thanks a lot gents.
 

So I made up a new sketch, double checked and re checked all my drawings, photos and measurements and I’m pretty certain I’ve gotten this one as close as I can to the real thing. Here we are, after drawing up the plan i glued the grid paper onto one side of the plywood and then screw two pieces together and cut both sides out in one go. Everything’s just propped up at the moment, I want to re check again, but where does one stop with these things? Once I’m 100% happy, I’ll make the actual form up and start working out where the track goes. I’ll start track laying from the crossover northwards to rejoin the fiddleyard and then re build the southern fiddleyard and join it all together. Hopefully the bridge will be built in between that time. 
 

I was opting to lay track and cut the rails and have the bridge removable but I decided against it and I’d rather lay track on top in one sweeping motion without the gaps in the rail in fear of bad running. A wise decision considering @Dylan Sanderson was right when he said the peco bullhead is very brittle. I’m also not going to be pinning the track down, everything will be glued, so that’s another learning curve. Another will be soldering drop wires to the track prior to the track being laid and feeding the wires through holes as it’s being laid and glued, minimising visible drop wires. Hopefully by that time Graham’s built the signals :wink_mini:

 

I don’t think I ever planned this much before building Brighton Junction, feels good. 
 

So enough waffle, here’s the photos. Keep in mind everything is sitting in a mock up stage. 
 

B1A8FA0E-A969-42A7-93C9-6939E696144B.jpeg.bd84b3128b0ba7e7a41a356cd0996b49.jpeg

 

3A4ED91C-1C71-48DA-9193-C5A53E635428.jpeg.8d8cc1e93446be66e692b2c41ae8ae87.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said:

I just start of by saying thankyou to two friends, Graham Nicholas And Steve white. Steve very kindly went down to Woolmer Green and took over thirty photos and measurements for me and Graham very kindly helped me tweak and get my track plan right! He also pointed out a few things I had gotten wrong on the viaduct. So thanks a lot gents.
 

So I made up a new sketch, double checked and re checked all my drawings, photos and measurements and I’m pretty certain I’ve gotten this one as close as I can to the real thing. Here we are, after drawing up the plan i glued the grid paper onto one side of the plywood and then screw two pieces together and cut both sides out in one go. Everything’s just propped up at the moment, I want to re check again, but where does one stop with these things? Once I’m 100% happy, I’ll make the actual form up and start working out where the track goes. I’ll start track laying from the crossover northwards to rejoin the fiddleyard and then re build the southern fiddleyard and join it all together. Hopefully the bridge will be built in between that time. 
 

I was opting to lay track and cut the rails and have the bridge removable but I decided against it and I’d rather lay track on top in one sweeping motion without the gaps in the rail in fear of bad running. A wise decision considering @Dylan Sanderson was right when he said the peco bullhead is very brittle. I’m also not going to be pinning the track down, everything will be glued, so that’s another learning curve. Another will be soldering drop wires to the track prior to the track being laid and feeding the wires through holes as it’s being laid and glued, minimising visible drop wires. Hopefully by that time Graham’s built the signals :wink_mini:

 

I don’t think I ever planned this much before building Brighton Junction, feels good. 
 

So enough waffle, here’s the photos. Keep in mind everything is sitting in a mock up stage. 
 

B1A8FA0E-A969-42A7-93C9-6939E696144B.jpeg.bd84b3128b0ba7e7a41a356cd0996b49.jpeg

 

3A4ED91C-1C71-48DA-9193-C5A53E635428.jpeg.8d8cc1e93446be66e692b2c41ae8ae87.jpeg

Looking good mate!

 

Where's the goods yard, overly large station, church with a wedding and bus on a bridge going though?

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10 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

I’m also not going to be pinning the track down, everything will be glued, so that’s another learning curve.

That's a good decision. I don't know which glue you have in mind but I use Kwik-Grip water based.

 

10 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Another will be soldering drop wires to the track prior to the track being laid and feeding the wires through holes as it’s being laid and glued, minimising visible drop wires.

I know someone who does that but he doesn't drill the holes directly under the rail. Instead he drills them near the sleeper ends, so that there is scope for a little more adjustment when you lay the track. The short horizontal part of the dropper gets hidden later by the ballast.

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I am surprised to hear about Peco bullhead track being brittle.  I used it extensively for my own layout, built shortly after the stuff was introduced, and had no problems.  A pin vice hand drill with a fine drill bit was used to make holes in the sleepers, and Peco track pins used to lay the track.  I didn’t experience a single incidence of brittleness, laying three packs of the stuff.

 

I wonder then, have they perhaps changed the plastic more recently?

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Looking good, Jesse. Those viaduct piers look better now with their gentle taper.

 

Re glueing rather than pinning, just to say that you've got just one chance to get that right with glue. By 'get in right', I'm referring to the alignment and track spacing. You've got this all set up now for a lovely gentle flowing curve - but it'll be so easy to ruin that effect if there's slight kinks and inconsistencies, leading to the trains bucking about a bit as they roll through, particularly at speed. You can't adjust it once the glue has set!

 

Maybe those on here with experience of using glue can advise on best approach? Like Chamby, I'm not aware of Peco bulkhead being especially brittle? The sleepers are the same thickness as ordinary Peco streamline, unlike - say - SMP track.

 

Do you want me to talk you through my track alignment pins method? It would really suit this gentle curve you have here.

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1 hour ago, Chamby said:

I am surprised to hear about Peco bullhead track being brittle.  I used it extensively for my own layout, built shortly after the stuff was introduced, and had no problems.  A pin vice hand drill with a fine drill bit was used to make holes in the sleepers, and Peco track pins used to lay the track.  I didn’t experience a single incidence of brittleness, laying three packs of the stuff.

 

I wonder then, have they perhaps changed the plastic more recently?

 

A similar view here. Any damage problems - very few - have been down to my own stupidity. I've even managed to lift and relay pointwork with no damage. The pointwork involved was secured with Copydex.

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On 22/07/2021 at 15:51, Barry O said:

Looking champion Jesse.

 

If ever we are allowed back into Oz I expect it to be finished.

 

Baz

It’ll be finished by the end of this lockdown. So next year….

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On 22/07/2021 at 10:11, St Enodoc said:

That's a good decision. I don't know which glue you have in mind but I use Kwik-Grip water based.

 

I know someone who does that but he doesn't drill the holes directly under the rail. Instead he drills them near the sleeper ends, so that there is scope for a little more adjustment when you lay the track. The short horizontal part of the dropper gets hidden later by the ballast.

I was going to use PVA, but I might give the one you use a go, how did you do the curve? 

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On 22/07/2021 at 17:49, Chamby said:

I am surprised to hear about Peco bullhead track being brittle.  I used it extensively for my own layout, built shortly after the stuff was introduced, and had no problems.  A pin vice hand drill with a fine drill bit was used to make holes in the sleepers, and Peco track pins used to lay the track.  I didn’t experience a single incidence of brittleness, laying three packs of the stuff.

 

I wonder then, have they perhaps changed the plastic more recently?

 

On 22/07/2021 at 19:03, TrevorP1 said:

 

A similar view here. Any damage problems - very few - have been down to my own stupidity. I've even managed to lift and relay pointwork with no damage. The pointwork involved was secured with Copydex.

When I say Brittle, I mean it’s more delicate then code 100. If you pick up a piece of flexi track code 100 it doesn’t move freely, but a piece of bullhead makes a perfect U shape when you pick it up from the middle. It just needs extra care. I’m used to moving code 100 around. 

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On 22/07/2021 at 18:12, LNER4479 said:

Looking good, Jesse. Those viaduct piers look better now with their gentle taper.

 

Re glueing rather than pinning, just to say that you've got just one chance to get that right with glue. By 'get in right', I'm referring to the alignment and track spacing. You've got this all set up now for a lovely gentle flowing curve - but it'll be so easy to ruin that effect if there's slight kinks and inconsistencies, leading to the trains bucking about a bit as they roll through, particularly at speed. You can't adjust it once the glue has set!

 

Maybe those on here with experience of using glue can advise on best approach? Like Chamby, I'm not aware of Peco bulkhead being especially brittle? The sleepers are the same thickness as ordinary Peco streamline, unlike - say - SMP track.

 

Do you want me to talk you through my track alignment pins method? It would really suit this gentle curve you have here.

I think might have worked out your alignment method RL. 
 

Well what I have done is mark the centre of the MDF with track pins and have drawn a line through the middle. I then placed the ruler on half of 45mm on that line and marked 0 and 45 to get my track centre’s and have marked that line. 
 

But please share your method as It probably is much better then mine. 

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11 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

I was going to use PVA, but I might give the one you use a go, how did you do the curve? 

Pre-bend the track to follow the line on the boards (using Tracksettas If they happen to be the right radius). For double track I use Proses parallel track spacers for the second.

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On 25/07/2021 at 01:52, Jesse Sim said:

I think might have worked out your alignment method RL. 
 

Well what I have done is mark the centre of the MDF with track pins and have drawn a line through the middle. I then placed the ruler on half of 45mm on that line and marked 0 and 45 to get my track centre’s and have marked that line. 
 

But please share your method as It probably is much better then mine. 

Hi Jesse,

 

Well, yes, that's what you need to do to mark the centre line of the track ... however, first of all you need to optimise the position of the track pins in the centre of the trackbed. However well you think you've done it, those trackpins will only be in approximately the right position at this stage, especially on the curved section.

 

13625608_Measuringversines.jpg.c5f332d0e79aa678e9cadbe16f26af9b.jpg

What you need to do next is this. Measure the off set of each trackpin from the one either side, like so. Write down the measurement (to the nearest 0.5mm will do) and work your way along so that they're all measured. THEN look at the result as a list of numbers and you'll find that they'll wander about, rather than being a consistent number. For a constant radius curve, they should all be the same number; for a transition, they should be gradually increasing / decreasing (by the same amount each step) and a straight should be 0 (fairly obviously - it's easy to mark a straight line in any case).

 

So you then adjust the position of each pin from its present position and re-measure until you get a more consistent list of numbers. You shouldn't need to move them by any more than 5mm, 10mm at worse. At that point, you'll have a truly smooth alignment which will look GREAT as the trains run over it. BUT, it's not as easy as it sounds. Adjusting the position of any one pin, affects the offset measurement of the two either side!

 

I use a spreadsheet to do this; unfortunately, I don't have it to hand at the moment. If the above is of interest, give it a go and see how you get on. I can always send you the spreadsheet later if you want to try it.

 

 

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Do you really need a spread sheet? If you know what the radius of the main curve is supposed to be, ignoring the transitions, then use of some fairly simple trigonometry / Pythagoras / sag formula (as preferred) will allow you to calculate what the offset should be for each unit of length. 

 

Or, you could add up all of the offsets in the evenly curved "set out by hand" section, divide by their number, and thus find the average offset .

 

In either case, you'll then know the offset figure you are trying to get as you set out or adjust the pins.

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