GVT 0-16.5 Layout - Chirk

[Jeff Smith]

Here's an interesting inaccuracy with the Baldwin. Two of the books I have with diagrams show the lower front cab opening to be several inches lower than the rear opening. However photos of the actual loco show them level as in all the other Baldwins. I assume that the two drawings may represent the original Beyer Peacock project drawings and that this change was dropped.....

[Jeff Smith]

Further work carried out.  Firstly the chassis - not much change except the flywheel installed.  Motor held up in horizontal position by a screwdriver.

 

 

The body has been partly assembled and trial fitted to the chassis.  Motor once again held up by a screwdriver and forms the lower part of the boiler.  The kit instructions suggest keeping the cab and boiler as separate sub-assemblies screwed together but I have soldered them together as the flanges for the connecting screw had to be removed to accommodate the motor and g/b.

 

[Jeff Smith]

It's been a while so time to pick up the thread again.  Much frustration with the coupling rods and motion.  Hopefully to be resolved by Gibson cast eccentric cranks to be threaded and then Loctited to the centre driver crankpins and Gibson rivets (the ones supplied in the kit seemed too short) - courtesy of Branchlines in my next delivery.

 

Anyway I picked up the body again and decided to make a 10thou brass overlay for the cab back - the kit doesn't accommodate the unique GVT configuration.  The kit does however have a full length roof but I'm still undecided whether to use it or make a brass one.  The cast roof has rivet detail, the GVT drawings do not show any but reference post #26 may not be accurate - unfortunately none of the photos I have of the prototype show the roof details.

 

The windows unfortunately ended up about 1mm too wide but once the frames are fitted will I think be ok.  The overlay will eventually be glued on and decal rivets applied.

 

 

 

[DLT]

Hi Jeff,

 

My apologies for not replying earlier, you have a PM that I HOPE answers some of your questions!

 

Cheers, Dave.

[Jeff Smith]

Moving forward again having solved (hopefully) the eccentric crank attachment problem (Gibson cast eccentrics threaded M1 and Loctite). Also used some Gibson long rivets soldered as per the recommendations.

 

Construction has deviated considerably from the kit instructions, the yokes were soldered to the frames to keep the motion reasonably tight. Some of the instructions were vague to say the least.

 

A cab floor and bunker front were installed. A firebox back extension was laminated from 1mm styrene to obscure the motor gear train. It protrudes too far into the cab but better than seeing the gears.

 

A thin brass roof has been cut and curved. The drawings I have do not show any rivets whereas the cast one with the kit has rivets on the forward part but the rear is plain. I also prefer the look of a thin roof.

 

Tanks, domes and details have been added. Also the front footplate and buffer beam. The instructions did not specify how to fit the front stays so I bent them up with a centre to clip into boiler support. They are too raked but can remain as part of the chassis rather than having to be removed to remove the body.

 

I note some of the pictures suffer from distortion making some parts look crooked but actually it is mostly square!

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[Jeff Smith]

Pictures will shortly be posted of further progress - body now sprayed black, Kadee couplings installed and pick-ups installed on all wheels, including bogie.  Running is slow but good.

 

However, now turning my attention to finishing off.  I have the book 'Glyn Valley Locomotives 7mm scale drawings' by Bernard Rockett.  It illustrates the lettering style, looks like 6" modified Gothic in gilt with red shading.  I assume this is not commercially produced but would welcome any insight.  The closest I have found is UP Gothic Gold from Micro Scale Decals in the US; is not red shaded though.

 

The Baldwin works plates have been ordered from Narrow Planet.

 

The lining was red and white, with thin white on the inside. Does anyone have any suggestions as to a suitable Modelmaster product?

[Jeff Smith]

I am applying decal rivets on the new brass cab rear and have a question for anyone that might have knowledge about the cab roof on the modified GVT Baldwin.

 

I have two books with GA drawings, both of which have at least one error mentioned earlier in this thread which leads me to think the actual conversion differed from the concept drawings.

 

In the drawings the roof is shown without any rivet or joining detail. The white metal cast roof seems to reflect the original Baldwin version with rivet detail and rear extension. The pre-production Bachmann 009 version shows the same original roof.

 

 

Photos of the prototype appear to show a plain roof and a row of rivets running around the top edge of the cab sides, front and rear. Additionally, the rivets on the rear appear to be attaching a narrow flange directly under the roof and therefore perhaps securing the roof? Were flush rivets or welding ever used in locomotive construction?

 

I intend fitting a plain 10 thou brass roof, so if anyone can clarify the roof and roof attachment arrangement I would be very grateful!

[PaulRhB]

Pages 180-184 in Rails to Glyn Ceirog show rivets on all four edges.

I've sent more detail in a pm

[Jeff Smith]

Thanks to Paul above and further study of photos I made a decision to finish the roof as though a new extension was attached on the back using a double row riveted joining strip similar to the original centre line strip.  I think the 10 thou brass roof with 10 thou styrene strips and rivet decals looks better than the original cast roof.  Rivets added all around the edge and top edge of the cab sides, back and front.  Also Kadee Whisker couplings with gear boxes a push fit into the buffer beams.

 

Anyway the photos below show the current state of finishing.  Decal rivets have been added to the new cab rear (Micromark O scale, but I believe I have seen similar from Archer).  Overall brush painted in weathered black acrylic over matt black aerosol.  Gloss varnish where decals were applied.  After much searching gold Union Pacific Gothic letters from Microscale were applied (HO = 13.5" so about right at 4mm according to the Bernard Rockett book mentioned above) however not red shaded - I may try to add a suggestion of this, but......could spoil it!  The letters actually look smaller than in photos but they were unfortunately the largest available, they are however correctly spaced according to rivet locations, unlike the Bachmann 009 shown above..  Glazing has yet to be cut and added - final step after final satin varnish coat.  Some other painting required, brass chimney cap and front window frames.  There are no brake blocks - fiddly to add and hardly visible, also no backhead detail; need to add the crew to obscure it....

 

So the next step is a lining decision.  There are no red/white decals that I can find and I don't plan figuring out how to print my own.  I may end up just using weathered white (no corners available) or perhaps the LNWR/BR grey/gap/red from Modelmaster or HMRS.

 

The model runs very well and slowly with the two-stage g/b.  Pick-up on all wheels.

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[DLT]

Looking very nice indeed Jeff.  Have you checked the HMRS transfers?  They do general lining in various colours:  https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lining-150613.html

The colour choices are in the "options" dropdown box.  They are individual colours, so it might be a bit fiddly!

Cheers, Dave.

[Jeff Smith]

Thanks, I have ordered red and white sheets. A shame not to attempt correct lining having spent a year and £200 odd on it......

[DLT]

I'll be interested to see how you get on.  I always use 4mm scale lining on my stock.

Cheers, Dave.

[Jeff Smith]

At last I have made a start on the lining using the HMRS Pressfix separate red and white lining sheets.  I started on the left side which to be brutally honest I am not very happy with as the tank is not quite straight....  A rectangular panel, as per the tank takes 16 lines and corners, so it's not quick.  The white lining is so bright it clearly shows up body build errors so it will all get toned down eventually.  Pressfix requires a bit of care but with so many pieces I have rapidly developed techniques to ensure satisfactory application.  There are three different radii corners on each sheet in two thicknesses, I am using the thin smallest white corners inside the small thick red corners with appropriate lining joining them up.  There is no gap between the lines.

 

There will be pictures when I've done the other side which will be much better.....I hope!

 

I've also got the Baldwin plates from Narrow Planet to go on the bunker sides.

[Nearholmer]

Interesting stuff, and very fine craftsmanship.

 

Have you visited the mortal remains of the line? I was pleasantly surprised by how much is still in-situ, and how it all gives a proper feel for what is visible in old photos.

[Jeff Smith]

Unfortunately I have not even been to North Wales for more than 40 years but may try to fit a visit in next time over the pond....

[Nearholmer]

Ah ......... I hadn't twigged where you are.

 

Definitely worth putting on your schedule if/when you do visit. The section up to the quarries is particularly interesting, and is a simple walk, not like visiting old quarries at the top of the Festiniog, which can get quite dangerous, if you don't have your wits about you.

[Jeff Smith]

So here are the pictures, 130+ pieces of lining later.  Some weathering using a MicroMark product (Rust and Dust) has been applied in several coats to dull down the lining.  The observant will note that the front of the tanks has not been lined....I decided to leave off the lining as the cast tanks are not actually rectangular in section so rectangular lining would emphasize this.  Also the steps and attachment straps get in the way of lining, (and I had run out of small corners.......).

 

The final job is glazing; saved for another day!

 

Just noticed it is actually off the rails and the roof isn't fully installed.....and the weathering needs some attention.

 

[Fallen Flag]

The Glyn Valley Tramway Trust are making progress at Chirk station,,,,,,,,

[Jeff Smith]

Fascinating, thanks for the pictures.

[Mountain Goat]

Wow. Your loco looks great. It goes to show how large those locos are (Or how small some of the UK locomotives are... Yes we did have larger ones again!).

 

 

I don't know why but those Baldwins were not really liked by the traincrew, but as they were available cheap after the war to some of the narrow gauge companies, several of them found their way into regular use. 

It could have been the different conditions relating to the enviroment in which they were designed to be used? I expect the same could have been said about UK designed locomotives that found there way to parts of the USA on occasions? 

 

I was talking about this this morning. How different designs had to be used in different countries and even localities within those countries due to a lot of different reasons...  It is fascinating how each country adopted different ideas according to their specific needs.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Mountain Goat

[Jeff Smith]

Having put my GWR P4 interests to one side I am renewing my On30 and O-16.5 interests.  I have stock of both so am debating whether to build a GVT adaptation or something generic that could run either.  I have a 10'x2' space so maybe two 5' layouts with scenic break, each acting as the fiddle yard for the other.......

 

[Jeff Smith]

After experimenting with running my DCC equipped On30 locos on DC (they are dual decoders) I've decided they don't perform well enough to contemplate a DC only double ended layout.  So now a 7' long GVT Chirk with 3' turntable is in planning.  The train turntable is necessary as the Peco/Branchlines tram loco is so difficult to put on the rails, turning it by lifting in a fiddle yard would be almost impossible.....

So the two 3'6" boards will be the station on one and the engine turntable, carriage shed and sidings on the other.  More as thoughts develop.

[Jeff Smith]

A key element to running a GVT layout with tram locos is inclusion of a scale length loco turntable.  The GVT had identical turntables at each end.  These were just big enough for the 0-4-2 tram locos with overhang both ends.  Not big enough for the Baldwin though.

 

Early in this project I bought a Kitwood Hill 90mm laser cut turntable kit with pre-assembled code 100 16.5 rails (2015).  I thought I had the assembly instructions but they were for a different model.  I sent a plea to Simon Cox and by return the correct PBF was sent.  The instructions are comprehensive and the kit well thought out.  Assembly is ongoing.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Jeff Smith

[DLT]

On 06/06/2020 at 16:48, Mountain Goat said:

 

I don't know why but those Baldwins were not really liked by the traincrew, but as they were available cheap after the war to some of the narrow gauge companies, several of them found their way into regular use. 

It could have been the different conditions relating to the enviroment in which they were designed to be used? I expect the same could have been said about UK designed locomotives that found there way to parts of the USA on occasions? 

 

I think one of the reasons was that they were too "different" to what the crews were used to.

[DLT]

On 23/05/2021 at 21:06, Jeff Smith said:

The train turntable is necessary as the Peco/Branchlines tram loco is so difficult to put on the rails, turning it by lifting in a fiddle yard would be almost impossible.....

 

The answer to that is to remove the pony truck and run it as an 0-4-0.  On the model, the pony truck performs no function.

I built a tram loco that was "supposed" to be a 2-4-2, but under the skirts it was a rigid 0-6-0.