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Bachmann J72


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Alan,

 

Yes it is available from Digitrains in the usual way.

 

It has brakes on F2 and so much more.......

 

Speed related flange with no sound when stationary, automatic wagon buffering/rattling depending upon how you drive (does not operate in Light Engine Mode for obvious reasons), different whistle sounds depending upon speed and direction.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

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On 18/01/2020 at 18:57, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

But DCC sockets always require  blanking plugs. Please explain further. Although maybe better not, just to keep this thread on J72 topic. BTW Bachmann had been fitting DCC sockets well before 2005. 

 

Not so sure this is true. I still have the emails from Bachmann and Gaugemaster and a letter from Bachmann and there was no mention of blanking plugs at all. Gaugemaster commented that they had recently become aware of problems with recent Bachmann sockets so it could be that they differed from others.

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On 18/01/2020 at 18:57, Porcy Mane said:
On 18/01/2020 at 16:08, Broadway Clive said:

The fitting of coreless motors has simply come about in order to squeeze in more gizmos and bigger speakers for DCC

 

Simply incorrect.

 

It's a development in the progression of model railways and that progress is usually driven forward by the manufactures. I'm sorry if the current developments don't suit your own personal desires but sometimes, not just in model railways, change is forced upon us.

 

I rarely see many clockwork locos being run at exhibitions nowadays.

I'm not incorrect, its the reason Dave Jones gave when he announced in MRE that all his DJM models would be having coreless motors. And its not just my 'personal desires' that are not suited by their use, its all analogue DC users, and everyone who has invested in the DCC decoders that cant be adjusted for coreless. Better that people who care about diversity in the hobby speak up now, because the sure way to have change forced upon us is to keep quiet and think its inevitable, or not care because it doesn't effect 'me' - yet!   

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21 hours ago, pauliebanger said:

Don't know about that, but here' one on DCC with sound and stay alive on board.

Beautifully produced video as usual Paul. Trouble with sound on steam for me is that it draws my attention to the lack of smoke and steam, especially on starting and shunting. Can't say I noticed the flickering fire in any of its incarnations - rather like I never did when I was spotting them. That and the brown cab floor and the grey and red lines carefully picked out between the frames all seem a bit ridiculous to me - but perhaps it might be a 'boring' loco to some without them!

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1 hour ago, Broadway Clive said:

I'm not incorrect, its the reason Dave Jones gave when he announced in MRE that all his DJM models would be having coreless motors.

 

Oh dear.

 

For a small endeavour, as compared to Bachmann/ Hornby the truth is, it was probably cheaper for DJM to buy one type of motor than source multiple (but better suited to individual model) types of motor. After all, as history has well shown,  Mr Jones was far better at marketing speak than he was at producing the goods. Have you ever seen one of his J94's run?

 

1 hour ago, Broadway Clive said:
  On 18/01/2020 at 16:08, Broadway Clive said:

The fitting of coreless motors has simply come about in order to squeeze in more gizmos and bigger speakers for DCC

 

This is the part of your statement that isn't correct.

To keep things on topic. Compare the size of the current coreless J72 motor with the way smaller brushed iron cored motors as fitted to say, to Hornby Ruston & Pecketts. Also the brushed (But almost everybody thinks its a coreless) motor fitted to Bachmanns Wickham Trolley. Coreless motors are not being fitted to squeeze in more gizmos and bigger speakers for DCC.

 

The benefits of Coreless motors were being extolled & exploited by scratch builders decades ago with ESCAP motors being mated up to gearboxes to become "portescap" with these now selling on Ebay for small fortunes.

 

This post summarises things neatly.

 

1 hour ago, Broadway Clive said:

Better that people who care about diversity in the hobby speak up now, because the sure way to have change forced upon us is to keep quiet and think its inevitable,

 

I'm one that firmly cares in diversity in the hobby but also am pragmatic enough to accept that change and progress is inevitable if the hobby is not to stagnate. The manufactures have to develop and adapt with new technologies. If they don't. there profits drop, they don't survive and the hobby becomes less dynamic.

 

As has been explained, change and development is natural. Currently, I don't see many of us filling up our petrol tanks with leaded petrol or driving about in newly build Ford pops.

For those that don't want or need the latest model railway developments, I'm fine with that but equally I don't see any value in those folk saying certain types of motor should not be fitted because it renders it incomparable with my old hat control system.

 

Who knows in another fifteen to twenty years (sooner?) DCC may itself be superseded by some yet unknown technology. Does that mean all the DCC adopters will be up in arms because of the money they've invested. I think not. Most just move with the times.

 

DCC: Certainly polarises opinions.

 

P

Edited by Porcy Mane
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3 hours ago, Broadway Clive said:

Not so sure this is true.

 

"DCC ready" as opposed to "DCC equipped" British outline locos have almost universally been fitted with a DCC socket. As DCC has developed these sockets have become more sophisticated and could be one of many types.

 

See Here:

 

All DCC sockets require a corresponding blanking plug to run on DC only providing continuity from track pickups to motor connections. Wires could be used across the socket if you know what electrical connections to make.

 

3 hours ago, Broadway Clive said:

I still have the emails from Bachmann and Gaugemaster and a letter from Bachmann and there was no mention of blanking plugs at all.

 

Without knowing the contest context of the Emails reference to blanking pugs may not have been needed?

 

3 hours ago, Broadway Clive said:

Gaugemaster commented that they had recently become aware of problems with recent Bachmann sockets so it could be that they differed from others.

 

To try and keep on topic the new B'mann J72 is fitted with a Next18S socket. Under certain circumstances it could be problematical as it is internally wired slightly differently to it's almost identical twin, the NEXT18 socket. As can be seen from reading back through this thread, Folk have been fitting sound and non sound chips to the J72 without problem.

Do you have a link to where Gaugemaster commented.

It may be to do with this:

Not so much a Bachmann problem. More implementation of specifications.

 

Now back to the J72 if we may.

 

P

 

Edited by Porcy Mane
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Many years ago, a coreless motor was regarded as an admirable and high-end thing. The controller of the day was the Pentroller, and I've stumbled upon details of a revised Pentroller here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/23132-snitzls-controller-development/&tab=comments#comment-66685

 

Now - this is not going to be an electronics project for a novice, but maybe there is a new and indeed growing niche market for such a controller? A small production run might suit a modeller with an electronics background and a desire for a cottage industry.

 

- Richard.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re the above video of the J72.

 

It maybe a optical illusion ?? the centre driver appears to be lifting upwards on the axle on each rotation or the wheel is oval , it also appears to be not touching the rolling road "roller" either ??

 

The livery is nice, but it not authentic, it is based on a Works Photographic Grey photo of  2173 when it was built . As far as I am aware the J72 was always in Black in NER days.

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48 minutes ago, micklner said:

It maybe a optical illusion

 

Looks like the lining isn't concentric?

 

48 minutes ago, micklner said:

The livery is nice, but it not authentic,

 

Doncha just love these video reviews.

 

"Made mostly out of plastic"

"Lovely contrast between Silver & Black"

Etc., etc.

 

Nowt like being objective.

 

I was really surprised at the slow running of mine on DC. Wheels start to rotate with only 185 mV  (Yes that's millivolts) applied using a Gaugemaster GMC-100.

Let's have more of these coreless motors.  :smile_mini2:

Edited by Porcy Mane
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15 hours ago, micklner said:

Re the above video of the J72.

 

It maybe a optical illusion ?? the centre driver appears to be lifting upwards on the axle on each rotation or the wheel is oval , it also appears to be not touching the rolling road "roller" either ??

 

I noticed that too but only afterwards when I was editing the close-up (hence why I didn't mention it during the video). Interestingly it doesn't do it down on the track, only on the rolling road. 

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15 hours ago, micklner said:

... the centre driver appears to be lifting upwards on the axle on each rotation or the wheel is oval , it also appears to be not touching the rolling road "roller" either ...

 

14 minutes ago, That Model Railway Guy said:

I noticed that too but only afterwards when I was editing the close-up (hence why I didn't mention it during the video). Interestingly it doesn't do it down on the track, only on the rolling road. 

When a mechanism is on a rolling road the observed motion is a result of summing of both the loco and rolling road mechanisms. You will also observe that the loco is yawing on the rollers. The important performance is on the rails, that's the reference.

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18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Apologies to Dolly Parton.

 

Joem, Joem, Joem, Joemmm, is the next Bachmann Collectors Club model.

 

I don't know what exact dates it is suitable for, but it's nameless with the NELPG works plate on the cabside if that helps.

 

 

Jason

 

2010-2017, the previous Bachmann model from the 90's covers her period of operation then - Red connecting rods were one of the differences. The Mainline model with North Eastern on the tanks was how she ran in the 1970's.

 

The Joem nameplate is in the cab or it was last time I was there

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On 05/02/2020 at 19:37, micklner said:

Re the above video of the J72.

 

It maybe a optical illusion ?? the centre driver appears to be lifting upwards on the axle on each rotation or the wheel is oval , it also appears to be not touching the rolling road "roller" either ??

 

When I build a rigid chassis the centre wheels are a touch higher so it won't rock.

 

Unless you want another J11 chassis... :o

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I’m intrigued. SDJR7F88’s video shows the new J72 being sticky at very low speed. That Model Railway Guy’s video confirms it. On the other hand, pauliebanger’s video shows a J72 behaving well. Are the first two just bad samples or are the green ones worse performers than the black? Could it be that very low speed performance is enhanced by the decoder pauliebanger has fitted?

 

I have one of the very first versions, earlier than the one TMRG shows, and I was never happy with its performance, which was much worse than the Standard 4 4-6-0 of the same vintage. TMRG’s example has a “flyworm”, in other words, a flywheel with a worm gear cut into its periphery. I was sorry to see that feature abandoned because it seemed a very good idea. Nevertheless, at the very low speeds demonstrated, I don’t think the flywheel would have much effect.

 

It isn’t good that the latest version is outperformed in smoothness by a much older model.

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On 19/01/2020 at 12:31, etendam said:

Beside the progression of Model railways it is a progression in general! As these motors use less current and are more efficient they are catagorized as "green Motors" or environment friendly motors and thats where investors & banks want to put money in. This is why it is changing so fast and it has nothing to do with model railways but with the reduction of energy consumption and that is why several old motor types (Including some of your favorite Model railway motors) are simply pushed out of the market and this is an ongoing proces.

 

Ed

 

Oh I hope we are not going to start having energy efficiency stickers on our model loco boxes now. I wonder how many sales Heljan will loose with their - likely to be - F rating. 

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47 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I’m intrigued. SDJR7F88’s video shows the new J72 being sticky at very low speed. That Model Railway Guy’s video confirms it. On the other hand, pauliebanger’s video shows a J72 behaving well. Are the first two just bad samples or are the green ones worse performers than the black? Could it be that very low speed performance is enhanced by the decoder pauliebanger has fitted?

 

I have one of the very first versions, earlier than the one TMRG shows, and I was never happy with its performance, which was much worse than the Standard 4 4-6-0 of the same vintage. TMRG’s example has a “flyworm”, in other words, a flywheel with a worm gear cut into its periphery. I was sorry to see that feature abandoned because it seemed a very good idea. Nevertheless, at the very low speeds demonstrated, I don’t think the flywheel would have much effect.

 

It isn’t good that the latest version is outperformed in smoothness by a much older model.

Hi folks,

 

I've now had a chance to play with a few of these, and had very little problems with them.  One thing I did notice was a fair amount of overspray onto the running surface of the wheels.  A couple of minutes with a fibreglass pencil removed the stray paint, and improved running too.

 

Hope that of interest or help.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

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