Overseas railways worth modelling

[whart57]

OK, I'll just leave a thought with you then.

 

I'm not interested in Indian railways as such, but would be very interested in a Royal Siam Railway Class E 4-6-0, a locomotive supplied to Thailand between 1912 and 1920 by North British to an identical design as a mixed traffic class for the Madras and Southern Mahratta Railway. They lasted to 1970 in Thailand and a few were given to Cambodia and continued a few more years there. I photographed a derelict example at Makkasan loco works in Thailand in 2006. Chances are it's been tarted up and given a fresh paint job and is now currently on a plinth outside a Thai station somewhere

 

 

 

 

Have you thought of doing the metre gauge stuff in Sn3½? That's 1:64 scale on 16.5mm gauge track. It might be easier to find suitable chassis in OO/HO gauge than in 12mm gauge

Edited January 21, 2019 by whart57

[MGR Hooper!]

OK, I'll just leave a thought with you then.

 

I'm not interested in Indian railways as such, but would be very interested in a Royal Siam Railway Class E 4-6-0, a locomotive supplied to Thailand between 1912 and 1920 by North British to an identical design as a mixed traffic class for the Madras and Southern Mahratta Railway. They lasted to 1970 in Thailand and a few were given to Cambodia and continued a few more years there. I photographed a derelict example at Makkasan loco works in Thailand in 2006. Chances are it's been tarted up and given a fresh paint job and is now currently on a plinth outside a Thai station somewhere

 

Makkasan_ClassE.JPG

 

 

 

Have you thought of doing the metre gauge stuff in Sn3½? That's 1:64 scale on 16.5mm gauge track. It might be easier to find suitable chassis in OO/HO gauge than in 12mm gauge

If you have a chassis in mind, I'll happily design the shell to plonk on it. When it comes to steam locos, there's a fair bit of work involved, certain things beyond our skill level. Wheels are available (though not as easily as before), the biggest hurdle is proper, functioning motion gear.

 

If there was something like the Hornby Railroad range in HO, that would've made things a lot easier, but our only source is Eurpoean steam locos which are expensive. North American ones can be cheap but the loading gauge is gigantic. So it's always a hit and a miss. The issue becomes harder when trying to make MG and NG locomotives.

 

1:64 scale is something that has crossed my path, but I've left it to cars/trucks/buses for now. I already have a healthy range of T, N, HO and OO gauge products on my Shapeways shop. A new scale is just a burden at the moment, I can do things for people as a bespoke project but will not have it within my own range of kits. I'm happy sticking to 1:87 scale and used 16.5mm, 12mm and 9mm gauge track to represent BG, MG and NG. KW Trams has the ability to supply us with 12mm gauge motorized bogies as are a couple of other suppliers. Steam is something I'll look at later or if someone can provide chassis, I'll gladly link their details into the product page (so as long as they are willing to be dedicated partners for us).

 

If you're serious about the RSR E Class, drop me a PM and we can chat about that further.

[rue_d_etropal]

An alternative to 1/64 scale might be 1/55 scale(5.5mm/ft), as it is virtually same as what wargaming modellers called 28mm. There is a very large range of accessories available, with lazer cut models for buildings from almost any part of the world. As the scale is slightly bigger than 1/64, it is easier to find chassis to fit locos(one reason I chose it instead of 1/64).

[PatB]

When I was in Asturias in Northern Spain in the 90s the narrow gauge (metre?) FEVE lines along the coast looked very appealing. I'm sure there were also some narrower gauge lines of about 600mm in revenue service, complete with vaguely tram like Emus and OHLE but that may have been cheap wine induced dimensional compression on my part .

Edited January 22, 2019 by PatB

[whart57]

If you're serious about the RSR E Class, drop me a PM and we can chat about that further.

 

I know you suggested going over to PM, but the issues that arise for something like the RSR E are worth wider airing. Sourcing a chassis is not going to be easy. Below are the results of some investigations I have done into two Thai locomotive classes - the aforementioned E and the C56 class, originally a Japanese Railway design. For each I have calculated the wheelbase in three scales 1:64, 1:87 and 1:100 (which is the scale my modern day Thai layout is in). I can't think of any suitable chassis in 9mm, 12mm or 16.5mm gauges that would suit either class. Perhaps people here know different

 

RSR (SRT) E class 4-6-0

 

Built by North British, 1912-20

 

Wheelbase: 3353 (1524 + 1829) - 11’ (5’ + 6’)

 

Wheel diameter: 1219 (4’)

 

1:100 on N gauge chassis

 

15mm + 18mm, 12mm diameter wheels

 

1:87 on 12mm gauge chassis

 

17.5 + 21, 14mm diameter wheels

 

1:64 on OO/HO gauge chassis

 

24mm + 28.5mm, 19mm wheels

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SRT (ex JNR) C56 2-6-0

 

Built by Kawasaki, Mitsubishi and others

 

Wheelbase: 3800 (1900 + 1900)

 

Wheel diameter: 1400

 

1:100 on N gauge chassis

 

19mm + 19mm, 14mm wheels

 

1:87 on 12mm gauge chassis

 

22mm + 22mm, 16mm wheels

 

1:64 on OO/HO gauge chassis

 

30mm + 30mm, 22mm wheels

[whart57]

Btw, anyone else think it amusing that Kawasaki once built steam engines?

[Orion]

Btw, anyone else think it amusing that Kawasaki once built steam engines?

 

So did Skoda

[Hobby]

So did Skoda

 

Still make trains as well!

Edited January 23, 2019 by Hobby

[ianmianmianm]

When I was in Asturias in Northern Spain in the 90s the narrow gauge (metre?) FEVE lines along the coast looked very appealing. I'm sure there were also some narrower gauge lines of about 600mm in revenue service, complete with vaguely tram like Emus and OHLE but that may have been cheap wine induced dimensional compression on my part .

[ianmianmianm]

Anyone interested in modeling the FEVE should search FEVE on shapeways as there are some good 3D prints of locos and units on there in various scales

[MGR Hooper!]

I know you suggested going over to PM, but the issues that arise for something like the RSR E are worth wider airing. Sourcing a chassis is not going to be easy. Below are the results of some investigations I have done into two Thai locomotive classes - the aforementioned E and the C56 class, originally a Japanese Railway design. For each I have calculated the wheelbase in three scales 1:64, 1:87 and 1:100 (which is the scale my modern day Thai layout is in). I can't think of any suitable chassis in 9mm, 12mm or 16.5mm gauges that would suit either class. Perhaps people here know different

 

RSR (SRT) E class 4-6-0

 

Built by North British, 1912-20

 

Wheelbase: 3353 (1524 + 1829) - 11’ (5’ + 6’)

 

Wheel diameter: 1219 (4’)

 

1:100 on N gauge chassis

 

15mm + 18mm, 12mm diameter wheels

 

1:87 on 12mm gauge chassis

 

17.5 + 21, 14mm diameter wheels

 

1:64 on OO/HO gauge chassis

 

24mm + 28.5mm, 19mm wheels

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SRT (ex JNR) C56 2-6-0

 

Built by Kawasaki, Mitsubishi and others

 

Wheelbase: 3800 (1900 + 1900)

 

Wheel diameter: 1400

 

1:100 on N gauge chassis

 

19mm + 19mm, 14mm wheels

 

1:87 on 12mm gauge chassis

 

22mm + 22mm, 16mm wheels

 

1:64 on OO/HO gauge chassis

 

30mm + 30mm, 22mm wheels

It's fine to share your findings here, appreciate it. But like I said when it comes to steam, I am looking for chassis that are readily available or parts that are readily available to assemble a chassis. I'm sticking to HO scale for ease and to apply to the widest market possible.

 

If you are interested in one I'll happily design one for you if you give me the necessary drawings and images and requirements.

 

PS: I have dabbled in a lot of scales like 1:100, 1:76, 1:64 in the past and sales were nil. Not going there again unless it's a bespoke design for a customer. I'd rather stick to the success I've found so far

 

PPS: I had big plans for steam model kits and also found suppliers for wheels, con rods, motors, gear boxes etc. But those suppliers slowly died out and I have way of finding others. This was around 5-7 years ago.

[whart57]

It's fine to share your findings here, appreciate it. But like I said when it comes to steam, I am looking for chassis that are readily available or parts that are readily available to assemble a chassis. I'm sticking to HO scale for ease and to apply to the widest market possible.

 

If you are interested in one I'll happily design one for you if you give me the necessary drawings and images and requirements.

 

PS: I have dabbled in a lot of scales like 1:100, 1:76, 1:64 in the past and sales were nil. Not going there again unless it's a bespoke design for a customer. I'd rather stick to the success I've found so far

 

PPS: I had big plans for steam model kits and also found suppliers for wheels, con rods, motors, gear boxes etc. But those suppliers slowly died out and I have way of finding others. This was around 5-7 years ago.

 

I was looking for a chassis too - I have tried building steam outline locos with my own chassis and I'm not going there again. I couldn't find one, but as I am far from expert in RTR availabilities I posted the figures here in case anyone knew better than me. Apologies if you thought I was attempting to dump the problem on you.

[MGR Hooper!]

I was looking for a chassis too - I have tried building steam outline locos with my own chassis and I'm not going there again. I couldn't find one, but as I am far from expert in RTR availabilities I posted the figures here in case anyone knew better than me. Apologies if you thought I was attempting to dump the problem on you.

I suggest starting a new thread with those dimensions listed, that way people will see it. Here it is going to get lost amongst the other posts, I actually missed it because I overlooked the topic once.

 

So I definitely suggest starting a new thread, listing your data (like you did here) and as many images as you can.

 

HTH

[Hobby]

You could always start it yourself?

[Allegheny1600]

I'll put in a vote for a couple of my favourite railway systems!

 

What are they?

1. Greece - NG, MG and SG lines. The standard gauge lines are principally in the northern (mainland) half of the country albeit, there is now an SG line all the way along the northern Peloponnese coast to Patra whereas the metre gauge lines were principally concentrated within the Peloponnese penninsula, with a branch to Athens. Mixed in all over the country were limited NG lines of various gauges of 600mm, 760mm and 900mm.

 

2. Morocco - SG lines. The present system is mostly standard gauge although I believe that in the past, there were some limited NG lines. Morocco hosts a variety of former French and US built diesel and electric locos along with the first high speed line in Africa.

 

Where can I find information?

1. Greece. There are very limited and rare books covering both SG and MG lines but organisations like SFS the friends of the railways are a good place to start looking as well as sites such as Rolf Stumpf's Alco pages and of course, Flickr, Railfaneurope etc.

 

2. Morocco. Other than the internet and the official ONCF site, I don't know, sorry! Railfaneurope does have some pages giving stocklists but that's as much as I know.

 

Why would I want to?

1. Greece. If you like metre gauge, the Peloponnese system was a rival to the Swiss networks for grandeur and beauty and personally, I far prefer the "heavy rail" effect of the Greek system. For me though, the SG system is even more fascinating, the Greeks have operated British, German, Austrian, Italian and American built steam locos, similar with diesel locos from America, Germany, France, Roumania and Hungary however, they only have one class of electric loco (for now).

Scenery wise, there is a huge range from sandy beaches to mountainous passes, tiny villages to large metropolis and a fair variety of both liveries and services.

 

2. Morocco. The Moroccans place more emphasis on simplifying their suppliers being either from their former colonial masters, France or from the USA but they still have a wide variety of locos, stock, liveries, scenery and services. You can easily argue that the Atlas mountains would present a very interesting backdrop for any scene, along with camels, palm trees and Berber encampments.

 

Why wouldn't I want to?

Both countries are just that bit further away than the regular flight times for say, Spain or Germany/Italy plus there is the added complication of different alphabets and languages to take into account. However, in this day and age where English is widely spoken, this should be less of a problem, hopefully.

Model rolling stock is not widely available, much less so for Morocco (I don't think I have ever seen anything!) but repaints of existing models would give a fair representation. Indeed, I have built up a modest collection of Greek H0 stock ready for my own eventual Greek layout. Some of which is fully rtr stock, some is through repaints.

 

Has it been done before?

Baz Ward and friends have built one or two Greek layouts in the UK and they certainly do exist in Greece (at least one or two in Continental Modeller) but they are definitely still 'rare'.

I believe I have seen a Moroccan NG layout in print but certainly nothing SG or contemporary so if you're looking for something rather different but feasible, I think Morocco ought to be considered. If it were not for my Greek interest, I would have considered it simply due to the variety of stock used there (akin to the situation in Cuba!) but as mentioned in the OP, not enough lifetimes available to me.

 

I hope this has been of interest to someone,

John.

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said:

 

 

 

 

Where can I find information?

 

2. Morocco. Other than the internet and the official ONCF site, I don't know, sorry! Railfaneurope does have some pages giving stocklists but that's as much as I know.

 

I hope this has been of interest to someone,

John.

Les Chemins de Fer de la France d'Outre Mer  Volume 2  - out of print and usually commanding silly prices by UK standards.

 

Centred mainly on history rather than today, there is a lot about the "minor" narrow gauge lines - which once upon a time probably exceeded the standard gauge.

 

Various Le Train Hors Serie locomotive cover sales of similar locomotives to Morocco.

 

Other paper sources :-

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Andy Hayter

[EddieB]

Greece - there’s a forum for that: http://balkanmodels.biz/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=1ea32f24c95755978639ae0c57c57ea6

 

I’d recommend an excellent recent book from the Industrial Railway Society (I’m biased) that is quite wide-ranging.

 

Some history of Morocco can be found in “Railways of North Africa” (Bradt), long out of print, but may be available secondhand. For the off-beat and challenging to find, “Los Ferrocarriles en los Protectorados y Colonia Españolas en África” covers the Spanish possessions in Morocco, Equatorial Guinea and Ifni!

[DavidB-AU]

5 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

2. Morocco - SG lines. The present system is mostly standard gauge although I believe that in the past, there were some limited NG lines. Morocco hosts a variety of former French and US built diesel and electric locos along with the first high speed line in Africa.

 

Morocco also has an unusual royal train formed by two Budd SPV2000s.

 

 

[DavidB-AU]

Something that would make a really great exhibition layout would be somewhere on the TER Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur between Saint-Raphaël-Valescure and Cannes. The railway hugs the coast for 40km, doing some tight turns around headlands and bays. Something based on the Viaduc d'Anthéor would be an obvious choice. Imagine a roughly kidney shaped layout with the track disappearing into a tunnel or deep cutting about a train length either side of the viaduct. It would only need a couple of TER local trains and maybe a non-stop TGV Duplex.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

David

Edited January 20, 2020 by DavidB-AU

[MGR Hooper!]

PegasusDesigns Indian Railways WDP4 and WDG4:-

 

A kit built Indian Railways WDP4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wasabi]

Albania would be an interesting choice with some spectacular scenery, the chance of some interesting buildings (especially for the pillbox fans) and a railway using cast-off stock from elsewhere in Europe.  I went there in 2008 when the railway was very rundown and the three arms of the system had one train a day (maybe two in one case).  I think chunks of it are currently closed and there is a major refurbishment plan (but no guarantees when it will be finished).  The final section  (currently closed) of the line to Pogradec would make a good scenic section as it runs along Lake Ohrid, reaching water level in an ascending tunnel.  This section is hemmed in between lake and mountains and there is a compact terminus a little outside town.  Modelling broken coach windows might be a challenge though.  

 

[Pacific231G]

On 20/01/2020 at 02:41, DavidB-AU said:

Something that would make a really great exhibition layout would be somewhere on the TER Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur between Saint-Raphaël-Valescure and Cannes. The railway hugs the coast for 40km, doing some tight turns around headlands and bays. Something based on the Viaduc d'Anthéor would be an obvious choice. Imagine a roughly kidney shaped layout with the track disappearing into a tunnel or deep cutting about a train length either side of the viaduct. It would only need a couple of TER local trains and maybe a non-stop TGV Duplex.

 

Cheers

David

Hi David

The Viadu d'Anthéor would indeed be a good choice for an exhibition layout and indeed has been. .

Three of my colleagues in the then SNCF Society ( now the French Railways Society) built a model of it pre-electrification as the centrepiece of our stand for the Society's fortieth anniversary in 2016. 

I took these photos at Alexandra Palace that March and it was a good opportunity to run some of our mainline stock. The approaching train is my version of Le Mistral with a 2312K hauling a CIWL Pullman and Wagon Restaurant followed by a set of Rivarossi DEV Inox coaches.

 

As a conventional exhibition layout it would need to be built back a bit with a proper backscene and that may well happen if the layout is ever developed further but the gentle curve of the Anthéor viaduct made a very attractive sweep.  The layout itself was very simple and designed to be left running while we talked to the public about the Society. The 180  degree turnbacks were hidden by the stands either side  and a double ended siding for each direction enabled the next trains to be made up. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Pacific231G

[brack]

On 19/01/2020 at 17:51, Allegheny1600 said:

I believe that in the past, there were some limited NG lines

Limited? Only a network of 1700km or so of 600mm gauge populated by impressive decauville locos:

 

 

 

The prototypes for the wd baldwin 460t were built for the Moroccan military network.

 

More information here: https://voie60vapeurvive.pagesperso-orange.fr/Doc_CFM1_ANG.html

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Brack,

That is fascinating, thanks.

I first visited Morocco as a child aged about six in 1971 (with my parents!) and spent 90 days there every winter until I was about 15. That's about two and a half years in total.

We crossed from Spain to Ceuta and drove either more or less straight south to Marrakech, then turned southwest down to Agadir OR headed down to Casablanca then followed the coast down, sometimes venturing further south or east but most time was spent around there. I think Sidi Ifni(?) or Tan Tan(?) was the furthest south we went. More or less the border with the then Spanish Sahara, prior to the war.

I pored over the Michelin maps of Morocco but they only showed the still extant standard gauge lines.

So, although I had heard of some ng lines, it is quite a shock to discover there was so much!

Surely, there must be a model out there somewhere, that represents such an extensive network, I mean?

Cheers,

John.

[ColinK]

The Pigtail line in Germany, lots of bridges. Steep gradient and a complete circle.  It was built as a strategic line for moving military items from one part of Germany to another without going through Switzerland.  When I was there a preservation group were running trains, but the line was still open as part of DB for freight.  So you could model it with DB diesels and preserved steam running.  My video below.