Kingsbridge Branch : Pannier Tanks and Prairies & the extension to Salcombe

[Blobrick]

Can anyone help please?

I am currently researching the Kingsbridge branch in the late 1950s. As far as l can workout there were 3 possibly 4 Pannier tanks that
 were associated with workings on the branch.  I have been going through the 1959  "Railway Roundabout" video segment frame by frame in
 an effort to, a) identify the pannier shown awaiting departure, just  as a early 45xx arrives (4561 l think) and b) confirm what emblem the
Pannier is carrying. I have been through the Vic Mitchell "Branch Line To Kingsbridge" but the only photo l found, was a still take from
 the 1958 "Railway Roundabout" segment about camping coaches at Gara Bridge.

However this book did give the numbers of three known locos,all late series Panniers, nos. 3796,9633 & 9678. Does any one know where l might find any photos of Panniers on the line,or photos of any of these three locos between 1958 and 1959, which would at least allow me to confirm the emblems in use?

Fingers crossed

Bob C

Edited August 23, 2017 by Blobrick

[Kris]

I believe that the Panniers were infrequent visitors, the lack of photos showing them on the line would seem to back this up. 

 

The 4th Panniers number was 2062.

[Blobrick]

I believe that the Panniers were infrequent visitors, the lack of photos showing them on the line would seem to back this up. 

 

The 4th Panniers number was 2062.

Hi Kris

 

Yes l suspect you are right, it would explain the lack of photos, on a fairly well photographed branch. However just one photo would be all l need to confirm what l believe l identified in the video, so fingers crossed some one out there knows?..................

[chrisf]

I have just been through the book "The Kingsbridge Branch - The Primrose Line" by Ken Williams and Dermot Reynolds.  It contains but one photo of a pannier, arriving at Gara Bridge with one coach and lots of lads in bathing trunks on the platform - very much like the footage in the Railway Roundabout film.

 

If you want a photo of 3796 you might check out material on the Moretonhampstead branch, where it was rather more common.

 

Chris

[Blobrick]

I have just been through the book "The Kingsbridge Branch - The Primrose Line" by Ken Williams and Dermot Reynolds.  It contains but one photo of a pannier, arriving at Gara Bridge with one coach and lots of lads in bathing trunks on the platform - very much like the footage in the Railway Roundabout film.

 

If you want a photo of 3796 you might check out material on the Moretonhampstead branch, where it was rather more common.

 

Chris

 

 

Thanks Chris, good advice. I did "Google" all the pannier numbers previously, but got back very little information. However l ve checked through the Moretonhampstead branch as you suggested. So far l ve found about 8 photos of 3696, but most are undated and the one that was from 1961, is indistinct and the tank side markings can not be made out! Anyway l ll keep searching, you never know l might just be lucky !!

 

Thnks again

 

Bob C

[gwrrob]

There's an excellent photo of 3796 , the pannier I use, in BR black early emblem in 1957. This is in the book Steam on West Country branch lines by Peter Gray. Newton based and working the Kingswear branch at this time.

 

I also have a Joe Moss photo of 9678 on the Kingsbridge branch 1958-60 with what I think is late crest.

Edited August 22, 2017 by gwrrob

[Blobrick]

Thanks Rob that's useful information. Based on what you ve said the Pannier mentioned below might be 3796 then?

 

I ve attached a still from the "1959 Railway Runabout" I mentioned earlier, l am pretty sure that the large blob on the Pannier's tank side is an early emblem, and not the later totem. I would be interested in what other RMweb members think too

 

Thanks

 

Bob C

[Andy M]

Bob,

 

As all Panniers that would have worked the Kingsbridge Branch routinely were 83A Newton Abbot locomotives, I can offer you this information covering your 1958/59 timescale.

 

57xx:

5796 (Early Crest), at 83A (Oct 56 - Oct 58).

 

8750:

3600 (Late Crest), at 83A (Dec 49 - Nov 58). 

3659 (Early Crest), at 83A (Apr 49 - Mar 62). 

3796 (Early Crest), at 83A (Aug 53 - Jan 63).

9633 (Early Crest), at 83A (Feb 46 - Jan 62).

9668 (Early Crest), at 83A (Sep 55 - Aug 58).

9678 (Late Crest), at 83A (Apr 49 - Oct 62). 

 

Hope this is helpful, but if you turn up any new photographs that contradict my years of cross referencing, I'd love to know!

 

Regards,

Andy.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Andy M

[Andy M]

Thanks Rob that's useful information. Based on what you ve said the Pannier mentioned below might be 3796 then?

 

I ve attached a still from the "1959 Railway Runabout" I mentioned earlier, l am pretty sure that the large blob on the Pannier's tank side is an early emblem, and not the later totem. I would be interested in what other RMweb members think too

 

 

 

Definitely an early crest 8750, so take your pick from the three candidates! 3659, 3796 or 9633.

[Blobrick]

Definitely an early crest 8750, so take your pick from the three candidates! 3659, 3796 or 9633.

 

 

Fantastic, thanks Andy, I was fairly sure it was an early crest, but its always good to get ones suspicions confirmed. It also means one less loco to buy as l have a brand new Bachmann 97xx sitting in its box, just waiting for news like this!

And thanks also for the loco numbers, that could come in handy too. So now l think l ve got three types of loco working the Kingsbridge branch, 45xx, 4575, and 97xx!

 

Many thanks

 

Bob C

[Andy M]

So now l think l ve got three types of loco working the Kingsbridge branch, 45xx, 4575, and 97xx!

 

 

 

 

Newton's Standard 3 Tanks (82xxx) also worked the branch, albeit slightly before your timeframe.

[The Fatadder]

Interesting to see that the motive power on the branch in BR days was just as limited as in GW time.

 

So far I have only seen photos of 4500 and 4575 in service in 47, but have seen mention of the Newton panniers putting in an appearance.

[Blobrick]

Newton's Standard 3 Tanks (82xxx) also worked the branch, albeit slightly before your timeframe.

 

 

That's interesting Andy, l ve never seen photos of Std 3 tanks on the Kingsbridge branch before. I have seen Std 3 tanks working portions of trains down to Kingswear in the early to mid 1950s, so these must be the same engines?

Andy could l ask if you have come across any black liveried 55xx class tanks on the Kingsbridge branch around 1959?. I ve found a couple of photos whilst searching for the  Panniers, but any black 55xx photos l found were not dated. All the ones l found dated 1959 were of 55xx s in post 56 green,so it does seem that the locos in the west country received the post 56 liveries quiet quickly?

 

Bob

[Miss Prism]

This is, apparently, 1958, early crest, seemingly no lining, so I think is black:

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Kingsbridge_Station%2C_with_a_%274575%27_2-6-2T_geograph-2547064-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg/1200px-Kingsbridge_Station%2C_with_a_%274575%27_2-6-2T_geograph-2547064-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

This one is undated, also early crest no lining:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/k/kingsbridge/kingsbridge_old8.jpg

[Andy M]

That's interesting Andy, l ve never seen photos of Std 3 tanks on the Kingsbridge branch before. I have seen Std 3 tanks working portions of trains down to Kingswear in the early to mid 1950s, so these must be the same engines?

Andy could l ask if you have come across any black liveried 55xx class tanks on the Kingsbridge branch around 1959?. I ve found a couple of photos whilst searching for the  Panniers, but any black 55xx photos l found were not dated. All the ones l found dated 1959 were of 55xx s in post 56 green,so it does seem that the locos in the west country received the post 56 liveries quiet quickly?

 

Bob

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

5558 was Newton's last '4575' in black and was a Kingsbridge regular for many years. I will have to check her 'Engine Record Card' to see when it was shopped and painted green, off the top of my head I think it was December 1958.

 

As for the Std 3 tanks, they were used primarily on the Moretonhampstead trains and I suspect the forays down to the South Hams was either for trial or cover for the regular Small Prairies. Either way see the very rare image of two of them at Kingsbridge!

 

 

 

Andy.

[gwrrob]

4568 is another possible contender for black in early '58 with an indiscernible crest on the side.

[Blobrick]

Hi Bob,

 

5558 was Newton's last '4575' in black and was a Kingsbridge regular for many years. I will have to check her 'Engine Record Card' to see when it was shopped and painted green, off the top of my head I think it was December 1958.

 

As for the Std 3 tanks, they were used primarily on the Moretonhampstead trains and I suspect the forays down to the South Hams was either for trial or cover for the regular Small Prairies. Either way see the very rare image of two of them at Kingsbridge!

 

Standard 3 Tanks at Kingsbridge.jpg

 

 

Andy.

 

Hi Andy

 

With the number you ve given me, l gone through my books again (Branch Line to Kingsbridge plate 39) and found a photo of 5558 leaving Avonwick in June 1959. Its another almost head on view, but there is that large blob on the tank side and no sign of lining that l can make out. So if the date is correct l ve found my 4th loco for my small fleet.

 

Bob

Edited August 22, 2017 by Blobrick

[Blobrick]

^{I d like to say a big thank you to everyone who was kind enough to help me with my enquiry, with your help , we ve identified 4 loco/livery combination which were in use on the Kingsbridge branch in 1959.}

 

^{So my next step is to renumber the locos l have to their new identities. does anyone have any advice as to the best numbers plate to use?. The other issue l fore see is the smoke box number plates. Is it better to renumber on to the moulded on plates, or  doe anyone know of a supplier who does good quality smoke box plates which  look the part (white numbers on black back ground) and could be mounted on to the existing smoke box moulding?}

[The Fatadder]

My preference for plates is to commission a batch from Narrow Planet. They have a very good look, and by painting them yourself you get a big saving over the likes of fox and modelmaster.

 

I assume they also do the smokebox numbers, but can't comment further there given they are far to modern for me.

[chrisf]

Worth looking in 247's list.

 

Chris

[Blobrick]

Worth looking in 247's list.

 

Chris

Hi Chris

 

Many thanks for the tip, l ve dropped Brian an email to find out more

 

Bob C

[tanatvalley]

This is, apparently, 1958, early crest, seemingly no lining, so I think is black:

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Kingsbridge_Station%2C_with_a_'4575'_2-6-2T_geograph-2547064-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg/1200px-Kingsbridge_Station%2C_with_a_'4575'_2-6-2T_geograph-2547064-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

The background to the number plate could be red as the film has recorded it as a lighter shade than the bunker.

[Blobrick]

Here's my Kingsbridge extension layout's small but growing fleet, just awaiting the arrival of a post 56 liveried 55xx to complete the group, all with the correct liveries for 1959, with thanks to all who contributed above

 

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Blobrick

[Blobrick]

Here's my Kingsbridge extension layout's small but growing fleet, just awaiting the arrival of a post 56 liveried 55xx to complete the group, all with the correct liveries for 1959, with thanks to all who contributed above

 

DSC_0544.JPG

Sorry for the inverted image, l ve rotated it 180 degrees to correct it but its still keeps appearing upside down?

[Andy M]

Bob,

 

I've done a little more digging for you this morning regarding 5558. It received its last works visit to Newton Abbot in November 1958, so was almost certainly in Early Crest Black up until then. I can't be certain whether it received green at the end of this visit and as she was withdrawn in October 1960, photographic evidence would be scarce if it did. It is quite possible it went for scrap still in black.

 

Also be a little wary of a few published images of 5533 in black on the branch, purporting to be in 1959. This is unlikely as it was reallocated to Truro in November 1958, so those dates are more likely to be 1958 and not 1959.

 

Regarding your search for numberplates, 247 are very good, as are Fox (if a little more expensive). For the smokebox door transfers try here - http://www.pacificmo...x-numberplates/

 

 

Regards,

 

Andy.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Andy M