Siemens Class 700 EMU - 3d print/scratchbuild

[Kelly]

Yeh totally agree - I think £60 is certainly the maximum that most people will pay for an unpowered coach, and that is pushing it. £40 seems more reasonable to me, but then I remember going into my local model shop and buying a Hornby Mk2 coach for £12, and a Lima Class 50 loco (state of the art at the time) for £37! That was probably in 1990/1991 - nowadays you'd probably pay the best part of £180 for both of those. Scary!

 

I think going down the kit route might not be a bad idea - it does leave a lot of work for the end user, but those determined enough can get good results. 3d printing has certainly opened up a whole new world of possibilities!

With so many variations it might be the most cost effective route. If needed vinyls could be created for them (apart from the 376/8 units).

 

The individual components could be useful for others as things like bogies could have non-electrostar uses. I've thought about trying to do something like this for the 465/466 units (365 and 325 would in theory be possible from that too, as well as 16x units not done by bavhmann), but I currently lack the skills to do the drawing needed.

[tjf4375]

It does sound like an interesting project - I'd be more than happy to help with drawings/CAD for such things if that would be any help. Could certainly be scope for a joint project I think, as so many people have skills in different areas which could come together to make a cracking product, or as you say perhaps just components like bogies, cabs etc. At the moment I'm very much focussed in on what I need to do for the -700 project, but if there is a demand for various bits and bobs for other things, I'd be more than happy to help with CAD for 3d printing if needed.

[Gerald Henriksen]

Yeh totally agree - I think £60 is certainly the maximum that most people will pay for an unpowered coach, and that is pushing it. £40 seems more reasonable to me, but then I remember going into my local model shop and buying a Hornby Mk2 coach for £12, and a Lima Class 50 loco (state of the art at the time) for £37! That was probably in 1990/1991 - nowadays you'd probably pay the best part of £180 for both of those. Scary!

 

 

Two North American products for you to ponder, and then consider how lucky you are (both from Rapido):

 

1) New Haven Parlor coach - $100 or £74 (or £88.80 with vat)

 

2) VIA Rail Budd Dome coach - $110 or £81.40 (£97.68 with vat)

 

The "cheap" alternative (Walthers) are in the $80 range.

[St. Simon]

Hi Tim,

 

That looks gorgeous, I would happily pay for a kit of one of those, I think a 6 car kit would be a perfect starter, as it covers most of the intended family of units, and isn't too unmanageable, with additional coaches for kits.

 

I can't wait to see it finished, but me down for one!

 

Simon

[cal.n]

It looks amazing, I also really like the way you have integrated the plasticard and brass sections into the CAD to keep the price down

[tjf4375]

Hi Tim,

 

That looks gorgeous, I would happily pay for a kit of one of those, I think a 6 car kit would be a perfect starter, as it covers most of the intended family of units, and isn't too unmanageable, with additional coaches for kits.

 

I can't wait to see it finished, but me down for one!

 

Simon

Cheers Simon, it's got a way to go yet, but I'll let you know if anything gets released for sale.

 

It looks amazing, I also really like the way you have integrated the plasticard and brass sections into the CAD to keep the price down

Many thanks Yes that was more by necessity than choice to be honest - a whole bodyshell, as well as floor, interior and bogies would have been well over £200 per coach if completely 3d printed, which is ridiculous!

[tjf4375]

Siemens Class 700 Cab and Coupling parts now available for purchase from Shapeways - search tjfRAIL or 'Siemens' for more details

 

Hi folks,

 

Quick update, just to let you know the project is still alive! Sorry for the lack of posts over the past few weeks.

 

Having started the assembly process with the parts for the leading coach, a few problems and challenges became apparent - not least the difficulty with creating the shell panels. I had intended to 'precision cut' these from 0.5mm styrene, but having seen the intricacy of these parts I've realised this isn't realistic if a clean and consistent finish is to be achieved. As a result, I took some advice from a more experienced RMwebber and 3d printer and decided to go with 3D printed parts for the side and roof panels. Having done so, I've ended up with a viable 'kit' of parts which hopefully will go together with only surface finishing being needed. The result of this reworking is that I'm now confident that I can realistically release the various parts for purchase (although under no illusion that extensive modelmaking skills will be needed to complete). The cab and coupling detail are now available to buy from Shapeways, and I will be releasing more parts as and when I'm able to. Please do feel free to order but bear in mind there will be finishing and detailing involved to complete the model. At this time you will also need to make your own arrangements for bogies/motorising, as these parts are still in development.

 

A couple of renders of the latest build:

 

Exploded view showing how the new skin and roof panels fit together

 

Assembled view

 

Asssembled view looking fwd and showing the new rear cab module

 

Assembled view from above, showing central air-con module

Edited October 10, 2017 by tjf4375

[MGR Hooper!]

Hi Tim,

 

Excellent stuff, I do have one suggestion though, if you don't have permission, I suggest you take off the "Siemens" tags as it might cause issues. I know other people and myself who have made models and if we use the manufacturer names we've had a legal warning and had the models removed

[tjf4375]

That's an interesting point, thanks Sarah - I will change that.

[JTSanchez]

Fantastic work! I'd love a 700 for my layout. The 395 and 466 I have are great but it'd be nice to have a bit of local variation. Keep up the good work.

 

I was going to say that there aren't any tables in a Class 700, but then again I've never ventured into First Class on one, so I'm probably wrong . I'll take a peak next time I get one. Talking of which if you need any reference photos taking or anything like that, the time I usually get my train there's no one on it, so should be easy to do.

 

And whilst I'm here, is there anyone that has been on a 700/707? Not sure if it's just me but the seats are mightily uncomfortable. Bum's usually gone to sleep by the time my stop comes up!

[tjf4375]

Thank you very much! appreciate the kind comments. Indeed there are tables in first class (or there certainly are in the pictures I've found!) - I've not actually traveled on one yet so can't say first hand, but all the pictures and videos I've seen show tables. Perhaps they have since removed them?

 

I've heard from several people that the seats are incredibly uncomfortable, which is a real shame - they are affectionately known as 'ironing boards' apparently, because they're so thin! 

[jonhall]

Tim,

 

I'd suggest sending your renders off to CMA and find out how much they would charge to do a batch in resin - although as its laid out you have a large number of parts, you could ask them about how they would suggest grouping them together into a bodyshell to reduce the number of castings - perhaps the cab/drivers door/single saloon window as one casting, the passenger doors and center section as a second, and the end two windows with an end would seem to get down to 3 bodyshell components.

 

Jon

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Very impressive progress.

 

I was at the Three Bridges Open Day the other week, and managed to get a few pictures of these units close-up; see attached thread below.

 

I have a few more if they are if any use.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127147-railweek-2017-three-bridges-open-day/

[tjf4375]

Very impressive progress.

 

I was at the Three Bridges Open Day the other week, and managed to get a few pictures of these units close-up; see attached thread below.

 

I have a few more if they are if any use.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127147-railweek-2017-three-bridges-open-day/

 

 

Tim,

 

I'd suggest sending your renders off to CMA and find out how much they would charge to do a batch in resin - although as its laid out you have a large number of parts, you could ask them about how they would suggest grouping them together into a bodyshell to reduce the number of castings - perhaps the cab/drivers door/single saloon window as one casting, the passenger doors and center section as a second, and the end two windows with an end would seem to get down to 3 bodyshell components.

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon, thank you for your comment and suggestion. Funnily enough I do intend to cast some of these parts - having worked in the rapid prototyping industry I have a bit of experience with tooling and low volume production so I am looking at tooling the various parts up myself using 2 part silicone moulds. I don't have degassing facilities here, but I think you can get round that with careful tool design and the right resins so fingers crossed I'm hoping to get the majority of the parts tooled up in the next week or so. The chassis plate and cab fronts are currently too complex for resin casting so will have to remain as a 3d printed parts but the remainder are feasible for casting so I'm hoping this will bring the cost down for the remaining coaches. The total cost for one unit is still looking very high at the moment so I'm going to have to look at getting that down if I have any hope of selling these as kits.

 

Thanks again for the suggestion though, and I will post the results of my casting endeavours in due course!

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

[JDW]

Hi Tim, this is still looking good. 

Slightly random thought: I was looking at your other thread earlier by chance and wondered about the gangway connections.  Might it be possible to fit some kind of floating section to the top of the coupling bar, that fits inside the moulded gangway to block off the view from the side and top when the unit goes around corners?  I' can't think how to really describe what I'm imagining other than as a square-ish shape mounted on a stick on top of the coupling.  Obviously it would be smaller in diameter than the gangway, so might reduce the see-through-ness slightly - it depends which is more obvious and important I guess, the internal or external view.  It might be too fiddly, or too small to work, I know.  Or you might already have thought of it,  Just thinking out loud!

[tjf4375]

Hi JDW - I think I know what you mean - as per the attached drawing? It sounds like it could be a really good idea, I'll give it some thought, many thanks!

 

 

 

[JDW]

That's exactly what I had in mind, yes!

[FPH 603]

Wow. That is all I can say. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! I do 3D modelling, but I don't think I'll ever get anywhere near that level of detail anytime soon. Now I just need to think of a train to build with this as inspiration!

[tjf4375]

Wow thank you very much, really nice to receive such comments   Glad it's inspired you, let me know what train you decide to embark on!

[spark001uk]

Excellent work Tim. I trust it's still on the go?

 

Just a thought - if you wanted to keep the train length realistic, but don't have the layout for it, perhaps you could make it a 5-car class 707? Hell you could even give it the new SWR livery before they do !!

[tjf4375]

Hi there - yes the project is still on the go, it's hit a red signal so to speak, as I've had a slight rethink about the casting and have decided to remodel the coaches in CAD to print in one piece. This will make the casting process a lot easier and more accurate. For the time being I'm having to wait until funds allow me to re-order these parts from Shapeways before I can re-tool.

 

As for the SWR livery - yes it's a nice idea, but to be honest the main reason for producing a 700 in the first place is to go on my Sevenoaks layout, hence it would need to be in the Thameslink livery I'm not too worried about having a 6 instead of 8 coach train - there are plenty of things on my layout that are compromises and not precisely true to life, so one more won't bother me too much! Thank you for the thought though

[DMHDTrains - Too the everywhere]

Wow! This project is amazing, the level of detail is crazy!! Will have to certainly look into one for an ECML southern layout 

[Darlington South Junction]

what software do you use?

[Marcus-Jay]

For the time being I'm having to wait until funds allow me to re-order these parts from Shapeways before I can re-tool.

Ever thought of crowd funding

[njee20]

No progress in a year, would be great to see an update, if there is one... I see the OP's Shapeways shop doesn't include the 'one piece' coaches, I shudder to think of the cost of them. Should downscale to N gauge... (hint, hint).