Clayton

[Chuffer Davies]

Its been a long time since we posted an update and my apologies for this.  Its not because we haven't been making progress but rather that it has been a lot of 'more of the same' and so very difficult to think of anything interesting to share with you.  I'm pleased to say that even though it was a couple of weeks later than I had intended, we have at last finished the underboard wiring of the layout.  Its been a marathon taking around 15 months of concentrated effort on the parts of two/three members of the team, but as far as I can tell from the testing carried out so far we have made very few mistakes despite the thousands of solder joints and hundreds of wires that we have installed.  Testing is made more complex because the whole layout is controlled using Bill's digital control system.  This is based upon CanBUS technology.  We think that the software that Bill has written is now working correctly and so any errors in the operation of the layout will now likely be down to the errors in the data that I have configured.  This probably all sounds gobbledygook so I had better explain in a bit more detail.

 

Bill, who is an electronics design engineer by profession, has designed a control system with microprocessors at its heart.  The microprocessors are built into printed circuit boards and each board has the capacity to receive up to 16 inputs and can then control up to 8 outputs.  Inputs are either switches (toggle or push button) or power feeds from the track.  Switches will either be in the control panel, or equally they can be under the baseboards in which case they are providing feedback for electrical interlocking.  For instance a signal can not be pulled off until the route that it protects has been set correctly.  The accessory switch on the point motor is used to provide the feedback to inform the control system that the point has changed and only then can the signal be pulled off.  Outputs are themselves simple on/off devices which will complete a circuit by connecting an external device to ground.  In the case of Clayton there are only two types of external output devices in the digital system, these being LED's in the display of the control panels, and relays.  Points, uncoupling magnets, track isolating sections and servos used to operate signals and retarder devices, are all interfaced to the control system via relays which are directly switched by the control boards.  

 

The control boards are universal and so are installed in the control panels and under each of the base boards.  They are all connected serially by a pair of wires (the CanBUS) and they can therefore pass information to each other along the BUS.  In normal operation the only data to be passed are numbers in the range 0 to 2500.  The numbers are generated whenever the state of an input changes.  Each input is therefore assigned two unique numbers: one for when it is on and the other for when it is off.  All the boards are constantly 'listening' for the numbers on the BUS and a logic board will either enable or disable one of its outputs whenever the correct combination of numbers has been 'heard'.

 

The picture below is Bill checking out my wiring in the goods yard control panel.  The 6 logic boards required for this panel are clearly visible stood in their docking boards, along with a number of relays which are unfortunately required to control sets of bi-coloured LED's in the display,  Mono coloured LED's in contrast are wired directly into the logic boards.  The PC power supply provides the power to the logic boards, LED's and relays.  The traditional transformers provide power to the analogue controllers, uncoupling magnets, and tortoise point motors.  Each docking board has 8 sets of jumper pins which are configured to assign a unique ID to the logic board docked onto it.     

 

 

The whole operation is configured on an Excel spreadsheet which defines both the unique numbers allocated to each input, and the combination of numbers required to either enable or disable an output.    The excel spreadsheet is converted and stored in the internal memory of the logic boards by a further piece of software developed by Bill.  Once the boards have been updated there is no need to keep a PC connected to the layout.  

 

We are now at the stage where any problems with the operation of the layout are either due to wiring errors (unlikely), or due to errors in the data I have defined on the spreadsheet.  I am still testing the fiddle yard but hope to move onto the front of the layout shortly once all the data bugs in the fiddle yard have been sorted.

 

The other bit of progress I can report is that I have at last completed the 2nd of my J7 locomotive builds.  Both J7's have been built using the etches developed specifically for Clayton.  The 2nd has the largest of the 3 different boiler types carried by the J7's.  It is 4' 8" diameter and is the same as that fitted to the J3's.

 

 

As with my first J7 the motor is installed in the tender with a drive shaft running under the fall plate from the tender to a gearbox installed on the rear axle of the loco.  I have modified the gearbox design slightly by installing miniature ball races to support the input shaft which runs at the same speed as the motor in the tender.    I am delighted to report that despite the relative complexity of the drive system both J7's appear to run quietly and faultlessly.  Last night we were able to attempt to run for the first time a banked goods train up the gradient and we took the following video as a record of our endeavours.  Enjoy:

 

 

 

Until the next time.  

 

Regards,

 

Frank

Edited November 7, 2022 by Chuffer Davies
Reinstating Photos

[John Smart]

Hi Frank,

 

What a special view that is of the banked goods heading Down through Clayton.

 

I have tried to read your post on Bill's electronics several times, nothing goes in. Not really surprising, given my limited skills are elsewhere.

 

I have even more information about excursions on the Queensbury lines, courtesy of Mr Woodward and the LNER Society. Just in the period the layout is set too.

 

Cheers,

 

John

Edited February 28, 2020 by John Smart
update

[Chuffer Davies]

Well it has been a long time hasn't it?  Covid 19 has really impacted our project.  We have had no access to the layout since the end of March because the sports hall in which our club rooms are housed is shut until further notice.  

 

This does not mean that there has been no progress however.  We are taking the opportunity to build stock for the layout with Russell knuckling down to building his quint articulated set and I have been busy designing the artwork for the next locomotive project: the J1.  John (Smart) is also threatening to get on with his Quint set and I'll be threatening him if he doesn't.....  He is currently doing a deep dive on the time table and from time to time he lets us know about various excursions that ran to or through Clayton.

Whilst waiting for the J1 to be etched I have used the time to build a new chassis for a Bachman Atlantic (C1).  This is now complete bar some 16BA nuts that I need to detail the bottom of the spring hangers on the trailing axle.  I need to arrange for the chassis to be professionally painted because the lining of the frames and wheels is way beyond my abilities.  I have now added the missing detail: vacuum pipes, etc… and hope to send it off for painting shortly.

 

 

 

The version 1 metal for the J1 arrived from the etchers this morning and I am looking forward to starting the test build.  But at the same time as drawing up the J1 artwork I took the opportunity to draw up some components for the screw reversers for the J7's that I have otherwise completed.  This afternoon was spent building the first reverser and I am really pleased with the outcome.  To give you an idea of scale the wheel is 5mm diameter.  I hope I can build the 2nd as well as the first.

 

 

In between times I have made a start on building a B4 (Immingham).  This loco will be used to pull an excursion that will pass through but probably not stop at Clayton.  The kit is from the Great Central Models range designed specifically for P4 and EM modellers.  So far I have built the chassis which is now running successfully.  I have made a start of the superstructure but it is proving heavy going.  If I am being kind I would have to say that the kit is 'challenging'.  Not only is it quite detailed, its design is quite different from anything I have built previously which adds to the complexity.  I will be happy to take a break to test build the J1.

 

I will continue to update this blog as and when we have something worth sharing.  In the mean time I wish you all good health, and I hope to see you at an exhibition in the not too distant future.

 

Regards,

 

Frank 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Chuffer Davies
Reinstating Pictures

[grob1234]

Smashing as usual, Frank.

 

Be good to see that pair of quints finished (how rude does that sound?!?!)

 

In all seriousness, the C1 chassis looks very much the part. Got a very soft spot for those, and you're a brave man, because those aren't cheap models. Where is the chassis from?

 

I've also watched the video of those J7's, really impressive to see them at scale speed working together like that. Keep up the good work, hopefully not too long until you're able to access the layout.

[Chuffer Davies]

6 minutes ago, grob1234 said:

Smashing as usual, Frank.

 

Be good to see that pair of quints finished (how rude does that sound?!?!)

 

In all seriousness, the C1 chassis looks very much the part. Got a very soft spot for those, and you're a brave man, because those aren't cheap models. Where is the chassis from?

 

I've also watched the video of those J7's, really impressive to see them at scale speed working together like that. Keep up the good work, hopefully not too long until you're able to access the layout.

Hi,

thanks for your kind remarks.  
 

The chassis is something I’ve drawn up myself and had etched by PPD.  I’ve only catered for EM and P4 because of the way the loco chassis is balanced which won’t work in OO.  There wouldn’t be room for the compensation beams and gearbox between the frames in OO.   The loco is compensated but the tender uses CSB.  
 

I intend to make chassis etches available at cost to anyone wanting one.  They will then need to source  their own brass wire and tube etc to create a complete kit of parts.    
 

Cheers,

Frank

[D-A-T]

Please put me down for one. 
Thank you. 

[John Smart]

Looks like I am in-the-soup again!

 

When I have finished the excursion/theatrical traffic circulars volume there is a Quint to build.

 

Pigeons too.

 

John

[John Smart]

Plenty of interesting excursion traffic through Clayton as well.

 

John

[John Smart]

post deleted

Edited June 17, 2020 by John Smart
repetition

[Chuffer Davies]

4 minutes ago, John Smart said:

Plenty of interesting excursion traffic through Clayton as well.

 

John

Amazing stuff John.  I particularly like the idea of the pigeon vans but in order for the viewing public to appreciate the variety of traffic passing through Clayton I think we will need to provide some kind of narration for the time table that they can read as they watch the trains go by.

 

Another job to add to the list.....

 

Frank

[John Smart]

Hi Frank,

 

We could model a lot of extra trains through Clayton, but space would not permit them all.

 

John

[CEINEWYDD]

Hopefully I have attached scans of front page and page 76 of a RCH book with details of 

Clayton.  I have no idea of the date of publication, other than it is between 1932 and 1947 - probably.  I have been promising Frank D to do this for some considerable time.  My incompetence with I.T. will have him in stitches.

IMG_20210110_0002.pdf IMG_20210110_0001.pdf

[Chuffer Davies]

Hello again (at last),

It has been a disappointingly long time since I last felt that we had something newsworthy to report.  Progress has been slow but steady but sadly I have to report that we lost our dear colleague John Anderson to cancer early this year after a long illness.  John was our lead scenic modeller with 30 plus year's experience having worked on the club's previous finescale layouts; Leicester South (GC), Tebay and Evercreech Junction.  We will continue to strive to achieve the same high standard that John set for the scenic modelling on the layout.

 

The main progress to report is that the bespoke control system is now all but complete.  It is my firm belief that the success or failure of an exhibition layout is first and foremost determined by the simplicity and intuitiveness of the control system.  As a visitor at an exhibition I will quickly lose interest in a layout if the train's movements are spoiled by constantly running on to dead sections of track or running up the wrong line because the operator has failed to change all the correct points or select the correct section switches.  There are a few people who are just incapable of operating any layout correctly and they should not be allowed anywhere near an exhibition layout, but in the main I believe the fault lies squarely with the poor design of the control system, with the need to constantly drive across multiple controllers and manually set isolating sections, etc.  The problem often grows exponentially with the size of the layout.

 

We have done our utmost to ensure that this won't be the case with Clayton. Despite the complex trackwork in the fiddle yard the majority of the routes will be controlled by pushing the single button on the control panel associated with the siding that the required train is to depart from, or arrive into.  Selecting a route automatically cancels the previous route including activating any isolating sections.   At the same time the correct controller is automatically allocated to the new route as determined by how the points are set, the choice being one of the Up controller, the Down controller, or the Local controller.  At the same time the selected route is highlighted by the illumination of LED's on the control panel.  If the LED's are lite then there is no risk of the train running the wrong way or onto a dead section of track. 

 

 

The 'rules' that determine how the layout operates are written in an Excel spreadsheet which is then uploaded into the microprocessor boards installed throughout the layout and control panels.  The 60 plus microprocessor boards communicate to each other using CanBUS technology.  This is the same technology as is used in modern motor cars to control all the equipment in the vehicle. 

 

The station yard's panel works in the same way.  The main line (station) panel is slightly different in that points and signals are controlled by a frame of DC Concepts levers.  The allocation of controllers is none the less determined by how the points are set.  Setting the crossover from the Down to the Up line will automatically allocate the Down controller to the Up line throughout the station area.  Similarly setting the points from the Down line into the station yard will switch out the station yard's controller and switch in the Down Controller.  No need to set any 'Cab Control' switches and therefore no risk of driving 'off section'. 

   

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Chuffer Davies

[Chuffer Davies]

At the same time as working on the control system, I have also turned my attention to installing a turntable with capacity for the storage of an additional 11 locomotives.  Whether we will ever have spare locomotives is an entirely different subject but this area will also double as a loco servicing and cleaning area and so the ability to run loco's in and out of this area is still important.

 

Since this is intended to be an exhibition layout there is limited depth below the base board to install a drive system whilst keeping it safe during transportation.  This ruled out a number of commercially available turntable solutions.  I have chosen to install the old Airfix turntable kit because it requires a very shallow well of only about 8mm depth.  The kit was modified extensively by replacing the plastic outrigger wheels with small ball races and fifth ball race was installed in the central pivot which carries the majority of the weight.  I experienced problems with the outriggers flexing under the weight of a locomotive which then caused the deck of the table to drop onto the rail on which the outrigger wheels run.  I had to strengthen the outriggers with nickel silver which seems to have cured the problem.

 

We have motorised the turntable with a stepper motor and 1/250 ratio gearbox from RS Components, the control of which is achieved using a solution from the MERG group.  We have had a bit of an issue with interfacing the MERG control system with our main fiddleyard control panel but I'm sure we will sort it in due course.

 

        

[gr.king]

On the one hand I'm impressed by the "foolproof" result of the control systems (so long as no fool damages the circuitry) and on the other hand I find such electronic complexities deeply worrying. Expensive too I imagine.

[Chuffer Davies]

5 hours ago, gr.king said:

On the one hand I'm impressed by the "foolproof" result of the control systems (so long as no fool damages the circuitry) and on the other hand I find such electronic complexities deeply worrying. Expensive too I imagine.

This control system was the brain child of one of our members who had for a long time had an ambition to design such a system.  He is a highly experienced electronics engineer with many years experience in the defence and communications industries and so this system has been so to speak a bus man’s holiday for him.  As a club we were clever enough to provide any encouragement he needed.

 

This system also enables the modeller to encode interlocking rules into the design if so wished.  Once the system is fully tested I believe the plan is to offer it to the MERG Group to add to their range of kits.  

 

It might have been possible to get the equivalent operational outcome using a more traditional approach but it would have been more difficult to both wire in the first place and to trouble shoot if things subsequently went wrong.

 

Time will tell if  we have made the right choice but so far I believe we have as we have not had any issues with the system’s hardware since it was installed, and the software has been stable for several months now.  We just have a few adjustments still to make to the data on the spreadsheet in the light of experience operating the layout.

 

Frank

[Chuffer Davies]

One further item I believe to be noteworthy at this time is the progress we have made on the scenic front.  Most of the contouring of the land has been completed and so the next thing we needed to progress was the dry-stone walls that were, and remain, a major feature of the landscape in the area.  We require over 40 feet of walling but initially we had no idea how to produce it.  Eventually one of our team, Barry Spink, hit upon the approach we have now adopted. 

 

The start point are strips of 3mm ply which are set into slots carved into the polystyrene substructure.  The strips are temporarily installed in their slot and the contours of the ground, and the top of the wall (less the capping stones), are marked onto the face of the ply strip with a pencil.  The ply is then trimmed down to the top line of the wall with a saw to give us the basic shape.

 

The plywood is then primed with PVA glue and once dry the surface of the ply (down to the line marking the ground level) is covered in a thin layer of DAS modelling clay applied a bit at a time by thumb.  Barry has created some small dies from plastic flute board which are pressed into the DAS (whilst still soft) to recreate the random pattern of the stonework. 

 

 

The capping stones are recreated by cutting slits across the top of the wall with a sharp scalpel blade.

Once dry the wall is painted to recreate the variety of colours characteristic of Yorkshire stone in this area and it is then ready for permanent installation after which we will be able to start recreating the pastureland which bordered the railway line around Clayton.

 

 

That's it for now,

Frank

 

[CEINEWYDD]

Stone me Frank!  Hugely impressive work on the electronics.  Glad it was not me asked to carry out U.A.T. !

[Chuffer Davies]

3 hours ago, CEINEWYDD said:

Stone me Frank!  Hugely impressive work on the electronics.  Glad it was not me asked to carry out U.A.T. !

Ha ha, now that takes me back to happy days developing systems in Albion Street.  At least all that knowledge has not been wasted as I used it to help design the end user requirements for this new control system.  I'm sure you'd enjoy testing it really.

Good to hear from you.

Frank    

[5BarVT]

11 hours ago, CEINEWYDD said:

Glad it was not me asked to carry out U.A.T. !

 

8 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

I'm sure you'd enjoy testing it really.

FAT is the boring bit, UAT is fun ‘cos you get to try and ‘break it’ as well as showing it works.

:-)

Paul.

[Chuffer Davies]

Yet another year has passed since our last update regarding the building of Clayton (EM) by members of the Shipley MRS.  With only 4 of us regularly down at the clubrooms working on the layout itself it is inevitable that progress will be slow and I don't want to bore readers with insignificant items but I thought it worth giving you a progress update as we commence 2024.

 

Barry and Andrew continue to work hard on creating the extensive grass land surrounding the line running through Clayton.  We are using hanging basket liner to represent the grass.  This is glued face down onto the surface of the layout and once dry the backing sheet is torn away to leave the fibres.  The matting is then trimmed to length first using some electric dog sheers to get the majority of the work done followed up with a pair of scissors to get down to the required the depth.  The matting is then coloured to represent typical Yorkshire Pennine pasture which tends to be a rich green because of the amount of rain that the area attracts.  Barry and Andrew intend to go back over the area to add weeds and bushes but I think it is already possible to get a feel for the likely look of the finished product.

 

 

Meanwhile I have been building bridges although I leave the painting to Barry because I don't have an artistic bone in my body despite being the son of two artistic parents.  I am building two under bridges, one which went over a farm track giving access to Holt's Farm and the other larger bridge at the start of Pasture Lane which in reality runs near parallel to the railway from this bridge all the way to beyond Clayton Station before turning through 90 deg's and crossing the railway on the over bridge shown in the above photo.  

 

The basic shape of the bridge is first cut from 3mm Birch ply.  This is then coated with a thick wash of PVA glue to act as a key for the next layer.  Once thoroughly dry the ply is covered with a skim of plaster which has been strengthened with a blob of PVA glue.  The PVA reduces the risk of the plaster chipping as well as giving the plaster a degree of flexibility so it doesn't crack whilst being worked.  Once the plaster is dry the surface is rubbed smooth with glass paper and a  representation of  Yorkshire stones is then scribed onto the surface of the plaster by hand.  The scribing took several day long visits to the clubrooms to complete but I don't think it was time wasted in the end as I am very happy with the end result now that Barry has painted it.   I chickened out in one respect in that the curved roof of the under bridge was formed from embossed plastic card as I couldn't face attempting to scribe stones into a curved surface.  I have to say the first bridge was far more of a learning curve than I had ever expected. Bridges are far more complicated than I had previously appreciated and some of the model took three attempts before I was happy with the finished article.  I therefore decided to create a card mock-up of the 2nd bridge so that I could resolve all the issues before committing to cutting wood and scribing plaster, the stage I have just reached. 

 

HOLT FARM BRIDGE: 

 

 

 

PASTURE LANE BRIDGE:

 

 

 

At home work continues on building the motive power for Clayton (and some other projects).  Progress can be followed on my Chuffer's Workbench Topic elsewhere.

Apologies for the Great Western loco in the above link, I don't appear to be able to swap it for a more appropriate picture, but the majority of Chuffer's Workbench relates to the building of LNER locomotives for the Clayton layout.

 

Bye for now.

 

Frank